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COPD and vaporizing

tszasz4u

New Member
I have been recently diagnosed with COPD from the VA (I urge anyone who thinks socialized medicine to be the best course for providing "adequate" healthcare to more Americans, to think again!), so I haven't been given any further medical elaboration or further tests to narrow down the disease and its possible cause. Anyway, I had only been smoking weed-maybe upwards of two joints a day-for only three or four years, on and off, and have never touched alcohol. I stopped cold turkey several months ago.
However, my recent harvest-a crop I started before coming down with COPD symptoms-is now jarred and curing; and I haven't the heart-or chutzpah-to give it all away or to sell it; although the latter would help with some bills!
It seems that vaporizing Sunshine #2 has done well to alleviate some of my symptoms, certainly much of my anxiety, as my blabbing to my wife seems to attest.
Has anyone any information on the relative safety of vaporizing with lung disease? I don't hack after vaporizing (a gram at a time), and feel good for about an hour or two afterwards, with added relief from an inhalers. Is this then proof enough that no real harm comes from vaporizing? What of any anti-inflammatory properties of cannabis? Might CBN1 also have therapeutic properties for inflammed lung tissue?
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
I can't give you the information that you're looking for. But I can attest to the fact that vaporizing would have to be FAR less of a concern than smoking. Smoking anything subjects the lung tissue to tar deposits and particulate matter due to incomplete combustion. For the same reason, the act of smoking causes elevated levels of carbon monoxide in the bloodstream.

My gut answer would be that if it doesn't appear to be causing damage and seems to provide relief, then it would probably be a good thing. And we cannot discount that whole "quality of life" argument... But I am not a doctor. Unfortunately, irratants - and even damage - to our lungs don't cause the immediate nerve responses in our brain that, say, placing our hand in hot grease does; in other words, we don't feel the pain as we would with other parts of our bodies.

Cannabis does have anti-inflammatory properties.

I would be extra careful with the cure as far as making sure that the moisture levels in your jars are at no time high enough to cause mold growth because inhaling viable spores would be bad for your lungs. But that's something that I'd suggest to everyone in any event. (It's possible that the temperatures reached during vaporization would kill any such spores that happened to be present - but best not to take unnecessary chances.)

Hopefully, a fellow member who has been diagnosed with COPD will see this thread and chime in with more useful information for you. Good luck and if you discover any information independently - either from other sources or through your own future use, please let us know.
 

Scott Wheelman

Legal Advisor
420 Staff
I would have to say that with COPD, I would be seeking alternative methods...such as edibles. Just seems smarter if you already have a lung issue. Edibles can be in may forms - including snacks, glycerine based tinctures, capsules of Cannabis/extracted oil, Canna-butter added to ANYTHING you cook, etc.

Good Luck!!

:peace:
 

medme

New Member
i just found out from the V.A. that i also have COPD,, but,, i've been smoking pot for 40+ years and i smoked cigs for 35 years of that.. i was also born premature so my lungs wern't fully developed... so now i'm a medical marijuana user,,, i've been disabled with a bad back for 21 years... i'm TRYING to stop smoking, but still do a bit, i vape alot and i'm making some tincture,,, life is what you make it, try and make the best of it.. good luck..
 

2Tuff2sk8

New Member
I don't have COPD but lately have had colds etc and need to try to stick with just edibles for a bit - vaping is better than smoke, but I think my lungs need a break.
 

HigherDrifter

On Vacation
I'm afraid I'm not all that supportive of vaporizing. The thought of needing a machine to administer medicine just does not sit well with me at all. Yeah, vaporizing it is cleaner than smoking it, but, I think there many beneficial constituents of Cannabis that are being wasted using a vaporizer, likewise (but not as much) with the typical way most people smoke Cannabis.

Some people smoke Cannabis, specifically a joint or with a regular pipe, the same way they smoke cigarettes - they draw the smoke into the mouth then, almost immediately, inhale. Others, either with a joint or a water pipe (bong), inhale straight to the lungs. The method that I've been using for many years, something that I haven't seen very many people doing, is what I can only describe as being a "Drag-Seep-Inhale" method. I draw the smoke into my mouth and just let it "seep" in there for a while before I inhale.

I have no scientific proof of this, but, I think a large portion of the smoke gets condensed, and, furthermore, absorbed into the bloodstream through the pores in the mouth (tongue and cheek included, perhaps even the upper palate and nasal pores) therefore reducing the amount of harmful constituents reaching the lungs. Additionally, the longer you leave the smoke in your mouth, the more you absorb through the pores in your mouth, and the less smoke actually reaches your lungs. I have even left the smoke in my mouth so long that when I did inhale, what I exhaled was little or nothing.

I have a close friend who has COPD, more specifically Bronchitis and Emphysema. He's never been a smoker, Cannabis or Tobacco. It stems from all the unnatural breathing he's been doing over the last 30 odd years because of nasal polyps severely obstructing the normal nasal breathing. All that breathing straight to the lungs, all the pollution, not to mention all the dust and crap he breathes from his work, has been slowly deteriorating his entire respiratory system. I've had to take him to the VA Emergency Room several times over the last few years cuz he just couldn't get enough oxygen to his bloodstream. I mean that deely bopper they stick on your finger for measuring oxygen content in the blood has been down below 90% at times.

My friend has expressed an interest in trying Cannabis' anti-inflamatory properties to replace the Corticalsteroids that he's been taking. In fact, as soon as I harvest this years crop, he wants to try it out. He's got his hang-ups about smoking, but he doesn't like the thought of being tied to a machine for medicinal purposes either. We've talked about making edibles, or just just putting the bud directly in the mouth and seeping it (like chewing Tobacco) and about the "Drag-Seep-Inhale" method; he's yet to make any concrete decisions.
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
I'm afraid I'm not all that supportive of vaporizing. The thought of needing a machine to administer medicine just does not sit well with me at all.
A machine... You mean, like, a tool? As in a vaporizor/bong/pipe/paper to inhale it? A Bic/Zippo(yuck)/match/candle/hempwick/solar mirror/propane torch (was soldering plumbing)/hot exhaust manifold (burnt my nose;)) to light it? Clippers/scissors/machette/saw/hatchet/axe to cut down the plant and remove & trim the bud?

Well, we could all just gnaw the shaggy buds right off the plants, lol, or pull one off and hope a super-immense solar flare happened 8 minutes 19 seconds earlier that will flash-ignite it for us. But I've found tools - machines, if you like - to be immensely helpful in getting cannabis from a seed to my head/body.

I think there many beneficial constituents of Cannabis that are being wasted using a vaporizer
Possibly. Then again, it seems like you can taste a lot more flavor/terpines/et cetera when vaporizing. And combustion does do a number on things - including the actives in cannabis; I think the effects we get from smoking it are from the things that are vaporized just ahead of the combustion-front, not from the actual part that happens to be burning at the time.

Some people smoke Cannabis, specifically a joint or with a regular pipe, the same way they smoke cigarettes - they draw the smoke into the mouth then, almost immediately, inhale.
Seems like I'd get air with my cannabis if I did that. <COUGH> The air around here isn't all that nice, lol.

Others, either with a joint or a water pipe (bong), inhale straight to the lungs. The method that I've been using for many years, something that I haven't seen very many people doing, is what I can only describe as being a "Drag-Seep-Inhale" method. I draw the smoke into my mouth and just let it "seep" in there for a while before I inhale.
A bong cools the smoke. I'd expect that your method does too. And I guess if you have your mouth closed while you do your thing then you're not letting at least some of it exit before it can do its thing. I do wonder - seeing as how the average mouth is both (relatively) cool and moist - how much tar(etc.) ends up on your teeth/gums/etc.

I have no scientific proof of this, but, I think a large portion of the smoke gets condensed, and, furthermore, absorbed into the bloodstream through the pores in the mouth (tongue and cheek included, perhaps even the upper palate and nasal pores) therefore reducing the amount of harmful constituents reaching the lungs. Additionally, the longer you leave the smoke in your mouth, the more you absorb through the pores in your mouth, and the less smoke actually reaches your lungs.
I think I saw some scientific paper a few years back that stated that the lungs were far more efficient at absorbing Δ9-THC (et al) than the mucous membranes were. I could certainly be wrong, though.

I have even left the smoke in my mouth so long that when I did inhale, what I exhaled was little or nothing.
We used to do the same thing with a plain old-school bowl, take a good, hard, deep hit... And hold it until there was no smoke on the exhale. Probably wasn't all that good for us since it was a fight to keep from coughing up lungs, diaphragm, and toenails. But it sure was convenient at work with other people in the area when you could turn your back, bend over to "tie your shoe" or just hide your head for a second and not have to worry about them seeing any smoke come out when you weren't holding a lit cigarette. Still had to worry about some nitwit walking up and asking you a question while you were holding a hit, lol.

I have a close friend who has COPD, more specifically Bronchitis and Emphysema. He's never been a smoker, Cannabis or Tobacco.
Sounds like my uncle. But he went to SE Asia (sponsored by Uncle Sam) during the late 60s/early 70s and left his health (and a leg) over there. Guess it really was true that they sent the poor white trash in without regard to whatever chemicals/defoliants they had just saturated the area with.

Got my lung damage through living in an extremely (tobacco) smoke-filled home from birth until... Well... I'll let you know, lol. Also a bad case of histoplasmosis (used to do a little caving) in my late teens that I "recovered" from but felt ever since that there was permanent damage. And years of inhaling (and absorbing) so much in the way of chemicals - mostly MEK (methyl-ethyl ketone) and various strong acids - at work that my ex-wife used to complain about the chemical-smell on my breath the next morning. Oh yeah, and I smoked too many packs of Kools a day for way too many years. Guess you could say it was all self-induced.

Used to love bicycling although from around age 17 on I'd be panting too hard to speak after just a couple of blocks (I'd just keep on going, lol). I don't any more because my knees/etc. are shot - but even if they weren't, going on a ride now would... probably be a Bad Idea. I used to routinely get light-headed if I stood up too quick. Now it seems like it's "normal" for me to get light-headed when I stand up (period). Lately, the guy I work for, when I was bent over or squatted down and stand up and he happens to hear that little "thump" noise from when you get the red/black spotted vision and bend your neck so that your forehead hits the wall instead of your nose... I'll say, "I stood up," and he replies, "Too quick." (Then again, I don't really eat well or much and haven't for years - so who knows?)

I've often wondered if the reason I can breathe unassisted at all now is because I've smoked/vaporized/eaten so much cannabis along the way.

My friend has expressed an interest in trying Cannabis' anti-inflamatory properties to replace the Corticalsteroids that he's been taking.
There are some excellent scientific studies posted in the medicinal forums here and more at the Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research that might be of interest to your friend.

I wouldn't mind seeing one on whether vaporizing helps, harms, or has no real affect on lung tissue (both healthy and damaged). Come to think of it, there might already be one posted. Hmm...

BtW, best of luck to your friend.
 

HigherDrifter

On Vacation
A machine... You mean, like, a tool? As in a vaporizor/bong/pipe/paper to inhale it? A Bic/Zippo(yuck)/match/candle/hempwick/solar mirror/propane torch (was soldering plumbing)/hot exhaust manifold (burnt my nose) to light it? Clippers/scissors/machette/saw/hatchet/axe to cut down the plant and remove & trim the bud?
Took what I said way out of context. I could have phrased what I said a bit better, but most people would have figured out what I meant. Obviously you did not, and for that I'm :sorry:

...it seems like you can taste a lot more flavor/terpines/et cetera when vaporizing. And combustion does do a number on things - including the actives in cannabis;
I've already tried a handful of vaporizers already. While what you've written makes a good sales pitch it has very little to do with my own personal tastes and preferences. I've tasted ditchweed coming out of a filthy pipe that tastes better than prime buds in a vaporizer.

And I guess if you have your mouth closed while you do your thing then you're not letting at least some of it exit before it can do its thing.
Yes I am keeping my mouth closed. I take a comfortable draw so that I can comfortably keep my mouth closed and comfortably breathe through my nose while the smokes seeps. I even swish it around.

I do wonder - seeing as how the average mouth is both (relatively) cool and moist - how much tar(etc.) ends up on your teeth/gums/etc.
More than likely nominal. Depends on how much you smoke. Usually I smoke 2~3 hits in that fashion and that sets me up for a few (4~6) hours.

I tend to eat or drink something afterwards - water, fruit, veggies, maybe drink some herbal teas. Help to refresh everything in the mouth. I don't eat heavy or fatty foods cuz those tend to diminish the effects and that is what I'd prefer NOT to do.

I brush my teeth regularly, sometime with paste, sometimes with not. Sometimes I used fresh herbs. I massage my gums regularly with a clean finger. Sometimes I chew on dried grass - mostly the fibrous stem parts.

I'm more worried about what Tobacco does. I only smoke maybe 3~6 hand-rolled Tobacco cigs a day and that's considerably more than the amount of Cannabis I smoke. Heck, a nicely rolled MJoint would last me close to a full week - at least 4 days minimum for certain.


I think I saw some scientific paper a few years back that stated that the lungs were far more efficient at absorbing Δ9-THC (et al) than the mucous membranes were. I could certainly be wrong, though.
I'm not subscribing to that at all. I have found out for myself how inconclusive that this paper is, if not downright false. If I could go from an ounce a month smoking the way most people smoke to one ounce every 2 or 3 months using the Drag-Seep-Inhale method - all the proof I need as to which works better. Consider this: some of that tar/resin is gonna find it's way to the stomach, especially if you eat something after you smoke. Heck, If you've got some good tasting bud you're gonna want all flavor to stay in your mouth a while anyways. Could do without the cotton mouth though :)
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
Took what I said way out of context.
A bit. And I was being a little facetious;). I like that heating bud in a vaporizer in no way alters/adulterates things - not even the combustion reaction that is present with smoking. I still smoke, though. I save the vaporizer for the highest quality; and sometimes I just feel like smoking.

I've already tried a handful of vaporizers already. While what you've written makes a good sales pitch it has very little to do with my own personal tastes and preferences. I've tasted ditchweed coming out of a filthy pipe that tastes better than prime buds in a vaporizer.
Weird. While I have heard/read that some vaporizers will have an odor release when new & first used and that some poorly-made Chinese imports might have lasting odor problems - such as having plastic in the path of the heat, lol - I cannot remember ever hearing someone say that they considered the taste/flavor to be as foul as that (or foul at all, actually).

Hmm...

I just went and "dry hit" my Vapor Genie. The taste I got was almost exactly like the way the last type of bud I got smelled (heavenly, lol). No burnt smell and no resin smell (there is a buildup, but I definitely wouldn't call it resin as it's not foul black or (possibly) carcinogenic - it's more like unpressed hash:) ).

To each his own, I guess. If you ever decide to try vaporizing again, you might try a Vapor Genie. The bud chamber is not heated, per se. Instead, you draw hot air through a ceramic filter past/through the ground herb and into your mouth. Gives a pure flavor experience. Kind of like I used to do occasionally when I had a totally clean bowl and very tasty bud by holding the flame close to the bowl but too far away to ignite the herb, only better due to the filter keeping the flame off the herb.

Yes I am keeping my mouth closed.
Thought so but wasn't sure.


Depends on how much you smoke. Usually I smoke 2~3 hits in that fashion and that sets me up for a few (4~6) hours.
Sounds like a good value (so to speak).

I tend to eat or drink something afterwards - water, fruit, veggies, maybe drink some herbal teas. Help to refresh everything in the mouth. I don't eat heavy or fatty foods cuz those tend to diminish the effects and that is what I'd prefer NOT to do.
Sounds like a plan. Although see below.

Consider this: some of that tar/resin is gonna find it's way to the stomach, especially if you eat something after you smoke.
If you think there is a possibility that some of it will reach your stomach, you might (possibly, IDK) receive some benefit from consuming something that has an oil, fat, or alcohol content since THC (etc.) is not water-soluble but is in those three and can be easier/quicker/more absorbed that way.

I'm not subscribing to that at all. I have found out for myself how inconclusive that this paper is, if not downright false. If I could go from an ounce a month smoking the way most people smoke to one ounce every 2 or 3 months using the Drag-Seep-Inhale method - all the proof I need as to which works better.

Might have something to do with the fact that you are allowing the smoke to cool before inhaling. It'll be both denser and easier to hold. At a guess, I'd also think that your lungs would tend to be healthier for it as well, which might help them be more efficient.

I'm more worried about what Tobacco does.
You and me both. I've cut down a great deal but still smoke way too much (I know, "at all" is way too much, but you know).

I only smoke maybe 3~6 hand-rolled Tobacco cigs a day and that's considerably more than the amount of Cannabis I smoke.
Had a bad accident before I was 20. My mobility was severely restricted for a while and, as I was off work, so was my income. I got to rolling my own. Ended up smoking as much as I did when I smoked pre-rolled. Later, when I was married and I was dumb enough to just sign both paychecks each week and give them to the OL to do the budget with... And hope that what I got back was enough to keep gas in the car... I got to rolling my own for a few years, but I was using a little machine and I was using those tubes with filters already on them (since they no longer make the old Laredo stuff with separate filters AfaIK I had to get a different machine <GRUMBLE>), menthol of course because the menthol that they put in the tobacco just wasn't enough, lol. Used to set every morning drinking coffee and rolling up 20 for my plastic shirt-pocket case and another 40 or so for this can with a "pop-off" lid that she got me. Actually I think it held 44 without crowding. I'd leave the can in the car while at work and go out when I'd emptied the plastic case to refill it and I always LOVED that super-strong hit of menthol I'd get when I popped that can open after it had warmed up.

But then I got to smoking more now and then and would end up buying a pack before I made it home. <SHRUGS> Ended up going back to Kools. And now, last time I checked it would cost slightly more to roll my own (with filters) than it does to just buy cheap pre-rolled. Tax? IDK.

Heck, a nicely rolled MJoint would last me close to a full week - at least 4 days minimum for certain.
Wow, I couldn't go four days on only a gram or a little more. Well... I could, but I'd be out for three and a half days;).

The main thing is, it works for YOU. That's all that matters.

I moved a couple of paragraphs together so I could answer them together. Hope I didn't screw up the quoting.
 

punch1118

New Member
Hummm...in my opinion anyone who thinks habitual smoking can't hurt you is a fool but the jury is still out on vaping
now granted moderation like say one dube a week is a different story
but if you are like me smoking cigs and 3 dubes a day year after year its no wonder im now 62 and was diagnosed with COPD a week ago (40% of my lungs now GONE FOREVER )
however this is encouraging but i digress: New treatment in view!
I now sip off the first few hits from my iolite and inhale gently
what i do is start it and shut it off after 2-3 heating cycles, then dump it out and eat the vaped cannabis before it gets too fried and nasty tasting, one can vape harder but this way i get to enjoy the tasty top end then benefit by eating the meds that has been activated in the vape
this technique doesnt hurt or cause breathing difficulty for me but a dube causes me to go straight for the albuterol since i cant get anymore primatene
i get through the am and early afternoon with 1 or 2 sessions then i eat 1/2 of a dr j's muffin (im in colorado an mmj state) an hour before dinner and this my folks is my meds for the day (i love those muffins)

cannabis helps me stay active but i really dont know what the long term effects of vaping are going to be for me and if my symptoms change i will take another spirometry test to find out
i smoked cigs off and on since age 13, started smoking cannabis at age 18, last cig was 30 years ago, last dube was a week ago just before i went to the doctor
current drug plan is to try the inhaled steroid for a month, vape and eat cannabis, use albuterol for rescue, and no more smoking except maybe on a rare occasion
i believe in the healing properties of cannabis and i want it to go straight to the lung tissue just like the steriod so i will use my vape carefully and gently
maybe i wont need the steriod we will see

smoking a gram or more a day has caused me to become short winded and fat
i am fortunate to still have some precious lung tissue left and i plan to cherish life
im going to start running and train to play in an old timers baseball game
and more than anything i plan to be a better family man and of better service to others
for me by prayer and with God's grace and help
because i sure messed this up on my own
 

tszasz4u

New Member
Hummm...in my opinion anyone who thinks habitual smoking can't hurt you is a fool but the jury is still out on vaping
now granted moderation like say one dube a week is a different story
but if you are like me smoking cigs and 3 dubes a day year after year its no wonder im now 62 and was diagnosed with COPD (40% of my lungs now GONE FOREVER )
however this is encouraging but i digress: New treatment in view!
I now sip off the first few hits from my iolite and inhale gently
what i do is start it and shut it off after 2-3 heating cycles, then dump it out and eat the vaped cannabis before it gets too fried and nasty tasting, one can vape harder but this way i get to enjoy the tasty top end then benefit by eating the meds that has been activated in the vape
this technique doesnt hurt or cause breathing difficulty for me but a dube causes me to go straight for the albuterol since i cant get anymore primatene
i get through the am and early afternoon with 1 or 2 sessions then i eat 1/2 of a dr j's muffin (im in colorado an mmj state) an hour before dinner and this my folks is my meds for the day (i love those muffins)

so imho smoking cannabis might be safe in moderation otherwise chronic use will most likely destroy your lung tissue little by little day by day
i know there are some pretty sophisticated pipes but i think smoking is smoking no matter what the delivery device is
i vape and eat cannabis because it helps me stay active but i really dont know what the long term effects of vaping are going to be for me, if my symptoms change i will take another spirometry test to find out

i smoked cigs off and on since age 13, started smoking cannabis at age 18, last cig was 30 years ago, last dube was a week ago just before i went to the doctor
current drug plan is to try the inhaled steroid for a month, vape and eat cannabis, use albuterol for rescue, and no more smoking except maybe on a rare occasion
i believe in the healing properties of cannabis and i want it in my lungs to go straight to the tissue just like the steriod so i will use my vape carefully and gently. i will experiment and quit using the steroid in a month to see if i need it

smoking a gram or more a day has caused me to become short winded and fat so off with 20 pounds
i am fortunate to still have some precious lung tissue left and i plan to cherish life
im going to start running and train to play in an old timers baseball game
and more than anything i plan to be a better family man and of better service to others
i believe your prayers and the Good Lord will help me or anyone in need
An update to my original diagnosis. I went to see a pulmonologist, a couple of months after my VA diagnosis, and was told that I have asthma. That's right, the VA has misdiagnosed me twice! Still, I plan to vaporize, not smoke my weed, from here on out. The VA system can be adequate for some things, and woefully inadequate for a lot of other needs. I won't bother to even read diagnostics from the Federal medical system!
 

punch1118

New Member
i edited my post a little
a spirometry test will tell the story so you need an accurate test
they measure lung volume then give you albuterol
COPD is measured by a decreased lung volume compared to norm
actually its measured by and FEV1/FVC ratio less than 70%
asthma goes by the fact that lung function is improved after using albuterol
glad to hear you do not have COPD!!! scary isn't it?
 

mk1903a3

Active Member
i don't do VA. the government missed their shot at killing me once and i have no intention of giving them another chance at it.
 

Maysey

New Member
I know this is kind of an older post, but I thought I'd add my two cents here for what it's worth. I too have been diagnosed with COPD and emphysema, early stages. My lung function test revealed that my oxygen levels are higher than most people without these conditions and my lung capacity is above normal as well. I smoked cigs for over 28 years and quit over 12 years ago, but I was always pretty active when I was a smoker, which probably explains the healthier lungs even though I have these diseases. Although I quit smoking cigarettes I continued to take my nightly bong hits for several years after until about 4 years ago I purchased a Volcano vaporizer and I can honestly say that this has significantly helped my lungs, they're much clearer than before, I use my rescue inhalers a lot less and I just feel better overall. I shared the fact that I vape with my pulmonologist and he assured me that it's probably OK, just don't overdo it. I've read many studies where they believe there's some added protection from the THC in the lungs at preventing cancers and perhaps even stopping small tumors, for this reason and the fact I feel so much better when using a little of this natural herb that I keep going back to my nightly dosage. I would buy another volcano vaporizer when this one fails. Hope this helps a little!
 

Maysey

New Member
Thank you for that information, I will print and save. Even my pulmonary doctor suspects there's some advantages to vaping cannabis. There's is also documented evidence that it protects the lungs from small cell cancers, which is what most ex-tobacco users come down with even after quitting.
 

Croatsan

New Member
True, it's also in CBD and, probably some of the other numerous compounds found in cannabis. Keep in mind that cannabis contains over 500 different compounds. Only about a hundred of those are cannabinoids. Out of those hundred, many are not psychoactive.

Cannabinoids bind through our two brain receptors, but they also directly influence the red blood cells, in some cases act upon the DNA itself.

It is my opinion, or should I say belief, that the tolerance one develops to psychoactive or analgetic effect (binding through brain receptors) of the cannabis don't apply in those cases.

But, I'm not a doctor and this is just my opinion.
 
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