Critique my Living Soil recipe

[Diatomacious]

Lot's of trace minerals still deficient if you look at the math... soilless and organic is just asking for trouble. All the crushed rock in regular soil provides a lot of trace minerals. Not sure how you would get those into a soilless mix without going synthetic. Time for me to pick up a batch of topsoil.

 

[bobrown14]

The real test is to see if they can bud out... much more difficult to grow flower than leaf. That will be the real test of your recipe.

Eventually all the chemical will flush out but that will take more time than just a simple flush will provide... if you flush it well enough you might not notice any chemical taste or effect in the bud. Of course any organic nutrient you add in will be organic, it's just the residue left behind by the chemicals that will make it not.

Where did you find that science there?

I'd be curious to find out how you "flush" chemicals out of a plant or even soil?

Lets say you were in hydro. Yes the plant will uptake the soluble nutrients she requires and will leave the rest in the solution. Not so much in soil.

The plant still uptakes required nutrients (as long as enough moisture in soil).
The rest is left behind. There's a thing called cation exchange capacity of soil.
This is how flushing soil of any nutrients just doesn't happen.

You may be able to have excess soluble Nitrogen run off but that's it and it has to be a lot of excess. There will still remain plenty of N in the soil.
Think famers loading a field with manure (or chemical nitrates) followed by a lot of rain. Field would have to be fallow and not much cover crop (live roots in soil).

The outdoor bin where I throw all the green garbage from kitchen left overs is teeming with earthworms. They absolutely love the compost nutrients. I grab a shovel full and put in the bottom of a hole when transplanting... gives em a good start but you may still have to amend with more specific fertilizers like blood and bone to have really nice growth.

You can top dress with EWC/verimi-compost as much as you want.

Compost/ewc is part of the humus portion of a soil mix. So the other amendments tco any deficits.

Add your kelp meal with your compost. Now you have something that will grow a plant without deficits.

Kelp meal has over 70 trace minerals - there's more than whats on your test report. They don't test for all of them. More than Alfalfa. Kelp has every macro and micro nutrient in the proper proportions for plants to thrive and grow.

Plants need sulfur. IF there was too much sulfur it would affect the pH. You can see that its somewhat acidic by itself.

Once incorporated with humus this becomes a non-issue.

I don't use alfalfa meal in my soil mix any more. It's too hot as it breaks down. I put it in my compost bins and let the worms eat it. Problems solved. Can also use rabbit poop - thats all rabbits eat (alfalfa pellets), the poop you could probably grow in it.

Should test rabbit poop. Be an interesting test.

Blood meal. Are there any leftover anti-biotics in the blood meal?
Not a vegetarian here but thinking there are better choices. Fish bone meal is a good one. Food for thought.

Here's an interesting report - can be used to choose your preferred amendments.

https://extension.oregonstate.edu/sites/default/files/documents/1/lc437organicfertilizersvaluesrev.pdf

 

[Diatomacious]

Where did you find that science there?

I'd be curious to find out how you "flush" chemicals out of a plant or even soil?

Lets say you were in hydro. Yes the plant will uptake the soluble nutrients she requires and will leave the rest in the solution. Not so much in soil.

The plant still uptakes required nutrients (as long as enough moisture in soil).
The rest is left behind. There's a thing called cation exchange capacity of soil.
This is how flushing soil of any nutrients just doesn't happen.

He's talking chemical nutrient here... 100% water soluble... that's what pollutes the rivers and streams around farms... chemical runoff. I never said he could flush it out of the plant once it's grown in it. No you cannot flush out organic nutrient (except for the water soluble portion which won't account for much)... that's why you should never put too much in.

Kelp meal has over 70 trace minerals - there's more than whats on your test report. They don't test for all of them. More than Alfalfa. Kelp has every macro and micro nutrient in the proper proportions for plants to thrive and grow.

Problem with kelp is the excess phosphorous if you use enough to boost trace mineral concentrations to optimal levels. I'm just talking soilless mix here.

Plants need sulfur. IF there was too much sulfur it would affect the pH. You can see that its somewhat acidic by itself.

Once incorporated with humus this becomes a non-issue.

Sulfur incorporated with humus will still acidify the soil over time (certain microbes love to eat sulfur and once they colonize the soil it begins to acidify quickly through conversion of the elemental sulfur to sulfuric acid). Even acidifies outdoor soil so be careful adding too much, ie extra sulfur in certain organic amendments makes them cook hotter than others (pH hotter).

Blood meal. Are there any leftover anti-biotics in the blood meal?
Not a vegetarian here but thinking there are better choices. Fish bone meal is a good one. Food for thought.

Could be but company states it is organic blood meal (from organic cows I suppose). McGeary Organics is the manufacturer if you want to check into it. Fish bone meal is high phosphorous not nitrogen... I added blood to boost nitrogen levels without increasing phosphorous beyond what is in the 2T alfalfa meal (I'm still on soilless here). Feather would work as well but has over twice the phosphorous of blood.

I don't use alfalfa meal in my soil mix any more. It's too hot as it breaks down. I put it in my compost bins and let the worms eat it. Problems solved. Can also use rabbit poop - thats all rabbits eat (alfalfa pellets), the poop you could probably grow in it.

Not sure what you mean by too hot... I've got plants growing in it right now that were potted the day I mixed the soil up. Perhaps too much phosphorous along with the extra nitrogen caused the burn (I'm just guessing here from my own experience). If anything, kelp meal will acidify the soil more than alfalfa will and poultry is off the charts hot.

 

[bobrown14]

Kelp with too much Phosphorous?

I never worried about too much P in my soil with organic amendments. I like to load up with P. Why not?

Soil-less, I would guess always want to be adding N and more in VEG and less in FLOWER. I don't worry about too much in an organic soil mix. Ratios are whats important for me.

Kelp has the proper ratios.

By too hot, when I add it an amendment into soil, it needs to compost in order for the nutrients to become soluble.

With Alfalfa an amendment it breaks down (composting). In a container, it heats up. That makes the plants in the container, their roots dont like higher temps so it slows root growth. That in tern slows plant growth.

It will heat up my compost bin as well. There's where I like it to get hot. There are many micro-organisms that like heat and are great composters. In a container thats not optimal for bigger roots for an anual with a 5-6 month growing period.

 

[Conradino23]

There’s certain problem with phosphorus, but it mostly affects ready made mixes. We know that P is crucial in the first two weeks of veg and then in the first two weeks of flowering, but it’s used from beginning till the end to build the root system and produce sugars.

However if you wanna grow organically too much P messes up with fungal and microbial balance as abundance of it makes it go dormant. It also screws up the taste if used too much in flowering and locks out nitrogen.

For soil that’s ready to be organically cultivated 80-120 ppm is optimal!

 

[bobrown14]

Sugars are good, specially in greens.

I guess most growers use P in a soluble form.

I use compost, kelp and EWC and add in ground malted barley as a catalyst. Fires up the plants metabolism. Of course rock dust is huge.

How ruck dust plays a part is interesting. Thats the stuff I really dig. lol (see what I did there?).

I got heavy handed at up pot on these with the malted barley. lol Oh wait no it was the mycos.

I tried a different mycos - "Wallace Organic Wonder Premium Mycorrhizal Inoculant"

And then this VVVV Over head high. Glad I turned down the QB board.

Gotta wrangle some more.

DSC_0027 (2).JPG

• bobrown14
• May 11, 2019
• a mess

Jellium - poly-ploid in the lamps @ 7'

 

[Diatomacious]

Kelp with too much Phosphorous?

I never worried about too much P in my soil with organic amendments. I like to load up with P. Why not?

Soil-less, I would guess always want to be adding N and more in VEG and less in FLOWER. I don't worry about too much in an organic soil mix. Ratios are whats important for me.

Kelp has the proper ratios.

I understand... but how do you check the ratios if you don't know what the P concectration in the soil is.

With Alfalfa an amendment it breaks down (composting). In a container, it heats up. That makes the plants in the container, their roots dont like higher temps so it slows root growth. That in tern slows plant growth.

Sounds like you are adding quite a lot of alfalfa in order to change soil temps through microbial activity (I assume you mean like a compost pile heats up from bacterial activity).

 

[Diatomacious]

However if you wanna grow organically too much P messes up with fungal and microbial balance as abundance of it makes it go dormant. It also screws up the taste if used too much in flowering and locks out nitrogen.

For soil that’s ready to be organically cultivated 80-120 ppm is optimal!

Sounds about right... not sure about the ppm, at least for a soil based mix but N is very difficult to test for (organic even more so) so you just have to play it by ear and use your experience to anticipate N needs.

 

[bobrown14]

I understand... but how do you check the ratios if you don't know what the P concectration in the soil is.


Sounds like you are adding quite a lot of alfalfa in order to change soil temps through microbial activity (I assume you mean like a compost pile heats up from bacterial activity).

Soil test gives me the ratio - my amendment mix is minimal but balanced.

Also soil test gives me N as well.

I don't use Alfalfa meal in my soil. I add it to my vermi-compost bin a cup at a time when I think about it.

 

[Conradino23]

N alone is not a good indicator. You need soluble and insoluble nitrogen to know what exactly you're working with!

 

[Diatomacious]

Looks like my attempt at making a soil mix is another dead end... something is still out of kilter with my plants grown in the soil less mix... at this point I give up on soil less and will probably go back to growing in the dirt like normal folk. Now if I could only find some genetics like I used to get back in the 80's (even others have commented on how luke warm the THC content of today's bud is compared to back before the drug war became big business).

 

[bobrown14]

There's good genetics in 2019.

If you want the old school stuff - look up SnowHigh seeds. He's got the landrace stuff from the 70s - Thai/Hawaiian/Hindu Kush/South African/Colombian/Mexican - he's got it all.

 

[I'mOne]

My first grow was ACE lebanese, i had two plants survive my inept start. One small red stem plant that smelled like cedar and one larger green stem plant. Grew indoor with a simple coots mix and cfls added a couple low watt leds at the end in blooming. The red stem pheno gave me an incredible cerebral high that lasted 4 hours. It was not harsh and didnt make me cough up a lung. It produced small fluff buds but oh my god. I will never rely on dispensary weed again if im able.

 

[Conradino23]

Leb is a fantastic heirloom. My luck of the draw was two cbd plants, but they smelled beautifully and made some nice hash.

 

[bobrown14]

I'mOne,

Coots mix ftw!

Keep growing in it. Its gets better the longer you grow with it.

 

[I'mOne]

I smoked the green stem pheno last night. Shorter duration high...not as intense but a beautiful taste. Minty almost.....Wife will like it.

 

[Mr. Rogers]

This threads a very good read.