Help - identifying deficiency/excesses

[Emilya Green]

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Damn. So when is the right time to move from a jiffy to an intermediate container?

Because the tap root starts poking out of the pellet mesh in a week to 10 days and I feared it may start damaging the root due to air exposure. Hence, moved it to the final container after about 10 days of germinating

We have to be careful when making assumptions, such as roots being damaged due to air exposure. What actually happens is that those roots that poke out are pruned by the air, its actually called air pruning. This causes that root to split at the end, and become two roots inside that pellet. This is the beginning of the formation of a root ball, and massive root growth inside that first container as all roots that reach the sides either turn and keep filling that space, or they split and become two roots. Keep watering when the pellet gets light, and it should only take a week or so before it is everything you can do to keep that thing wet day to day. When you notice that you need to water every day, it is time to move up to a bigger container, but not the final container. I suggest going from jiffy to 1 gallon, and then when that needs to be watered every day, move up to a 3 or a 5 gallon.

I will mention again, that there is no reason to fear uppotting. If done correctly, it DOES NOT stress the plant, quite the opposite actually.

 

[SmokingWings]

Soil is mixed with vermi-compost & organic manure. Weekly supplementation using a standard all purpose organic fertiliser for flowering plants. Constituents below.

First thing I noticed is that you are using what looks like a pre-mixed water "for flowering plants" and your plants are not in flower. The constituents (shown in msg #1) do not list Nitrogen, or Phosphorous for that matter. As @Emilya Green mentions in msg #11 young plants as shown need Nitrogen. The Nitrogen (N) is going to be needed for photosynthesis and promoting fast growing. In between working out the way to read the moisture in the soil you can read up on what the various fertilizer ingredients (nutrients) are and why they are helpful to healthy & fast growing plants.

Plant 3: Landrace photoperiod. Age 1.5 months. Everything that can possibly grow wrong, has. Not sure if it’s deficiency or excesses. Leaves have curled over themselves. New leaves and old ones have burnt tips. Lower leaves wilting.

If I am understanding right this is the plant you are referring to as 'the sapling'. To me it looks like it is suffering because it is not getting enough sunlight. Without enough light, both in number of hours and in how intense, (the quality) the light is then the plant's photosynthesis will be close to bare minimum to keep it alive. These fast growing plants need to be able to process and use the available nutrients and that means it needs the energy for photosynthesis. If you are growing outside and are in the northern hemisphere then you are like a lot of us in the US and Europe since we are running out of usable sunlight until next spring unless the grower starts using a decent grow light.

I will mention again, that there is no reason to fear uppotting. If done correctly, it DOES NOT stress the plant, quite the opposite actually.

What Emilya says. Transplanting is easy and will be darn close to a 100% success when the gardener has confidence in what they are doing. As long as the plant is reasonably healthy with a decent root mass there should be little problem if transplanting into any half-way decent soil. And, your soil looks OK at this point. Something else you can read up on so you can build your own later or so that you can figure out what to look for when buying a pre-mix name brand.

 

[guerrillabalconygrower]

First thing I noticed is that you are using what looks like a pre-mixed water "for flowering plants" and your plants are not in flower. The constituents (shown in msg #1) do not list Nitrogen, or Phosphorous for that matter. As @Emilya Green mentions in msg #11 young plants as shown need Nitrogen. The Nitrogen (N) is going to be needed for photosynthesis and promoting fast growing. In between working out the way to read the moisture in the soil you can read up on what the various fertilizer ingredients (nutrients) are and why they are helpful to healthy & fast growing plants.


If I am understanding right this is the plant you are referring to as 'the sapling'. To me it looks like it is suffering because it is not getting enough sunlight. Without enough light, both in number of hours and in how intense, (the quality) the light is then the plant's photosynthesis will be close to bare minimum to keep it alive. These fast growing plants need to be able to process and use the available nutrients and that means it needs the energy for photosynthesis. If you are growing outside and are in the northern hemisphere then you are like a lot of us in the US and Europe since we are running out of usable sunlight until next spring unless the grower starts using a decent grow light.

What Emilya says. Transplanting is easy and will be darn close to a 100% success when the gardener has confidence in what they are doing. As long as the plant is reasonably healthy with a decent root mass there should be little problem if transplanting into any half-way decent soil. And, your soil looks OK at this point. Something else you can read up on so you can build your own later or so that you can figure out what to look for when buying a pre-mix name brand.

Agree with point 1 of yours. I thought the Amino Acid in the formulation may do the job of nitrogen but I’ve anyways purchased a seaweed extract and a regular NPK fertiliser to start supplementing once I get the moisture equation right. I had again thought that the vermicompost and organic potting soil would have enough N to support the initial growth. Nevertheless I’ll reevaluate this.

The sapling is the OG sherbet. (Plant 2) you’ll notice it’s lowermost leaf has an almost ashy burn on it.


What you’ve captioned is a local Sativa Landrace. It was in perfect health until 2 days ago with big fan leaves. I noticed some caterpillars and white spot on a couple so I trimmed them and sprayed neem oil in the evening. Almost overnight the plant started dying on me.
Sunlight is direct and plenty(11-12 hrs per day). I wouldn’t expect a plant to just start dying because of sunlight alone. There’s plenty else that I could be doing wrong
One good thing though, is that this is an experimental plant. (Free seed).
So I don’t mind making mistakes on it as long as I can learn from it. I’m hoping my learning’s on this can help me take better care of the auto fems I have.

 

[SmokingWings]

Sunlight is direct and plenty(11-12 hrs per day). I wouldn’t expect a plant to just start dying because of sunlight alone.

11-12 hours per day is not enough to get the plant up and growing correctly. Once a Marijuana plant goes into flower we can get by with 11-12 hours of light. Until then the plant needs a good 16 to 20 hours of quality light and many gardeners who grow the 'auto-flowers' recommend 18 hours to as much as 24 hours of light per day.

Still do not know if you are in the northern hemisphere but I do not think that there is anywhere in the US or Europe that is still getting 12 hours of usable sun unless very close to the Equator. Keep in mind that the first hour in the morning and the last hour at the end of the day are weak light and not enough to be considered quality.

Yes, not enough quality light can be enough to cause a plant to look like it is starting to die. Without good light the photosynthesis is low level and the plant cannot process the nutrients that are available in the soil.

 

[guerrillabalconygrower]

11-12 hours per day is not enough to get the plant up and growing correctly. Once a Marijuana plant goes into flower we can get by with 11-12 hours of light. Until then the plant needs a good 16 to 20 hours of quality light and many gardeners who grow the 'auto-flowers' recommend 18 hours to as much as 24 hours of light per day.

Still do not know if you are in the northern hemisphere but I do not think that there is anywhere in the US or Europe that is still getting 12 hours of usable sun unless very close to the Equator. Keep in mind that the first hour in the morning and the last hour at the end of the day are weak light and not enough to be considered quality.

Yes, not enough quality light can be enough to cause a plant to look like it is starting to die. Without good light the photosynthesis is low level and the plant cannot process the nutrients that are available in the soil.

I am growing another one from the same landrace family and it has so far grown well without any signs of distress. I do agree that tropical 11 hrs of sunlight may not be the most ideal but I have very limited/ no option of artificial light setup. The landraces aren’t autos though. So you may have a point on 12+ hrs of daily sunlight.

Let’s see if the distressed plant recovers at all, else I’ll have to stop all my plant grows and wait till the tropical summer season

 

[SmokingWings]

... I have very limited/ no option of artificial light setup.

I had that feeling that you did not have that much choice.

I will be following this thread and most likely some of the others. I am curious as to how much room we have when it comes to lower light conditions. Please let us know of any updates.

 

[guerrillabalconygrower]

I had that feeling that you did not have that much choice.

I will be following this thread and most likely some of the others. I am curious as to how much room we have when it comes to lower light conditions. Please let us know of any updates.

The healthy landrace plant that I’ve shown was sowed in regular red clay garden soil, around early Sept, in a south facing window.
The soil has very High water retention, low drainage. Very little/ no supplementation other than the Blooming Liquid I’ve mentioned in the 1st post — once every 7 days and some compost manure was added to the soil. Alternate day watering.

Topped the main stem and LST’d it as per need.

Sunrise to sunset is slightly less than 12hrs.
But sun intensity has been generally very bright. Peak Daytime temps reach about 35 deg C and humidity is 60-70%. I’m closer to the Tropic of Cancer than to the equator. My assumption is, although the total hours are not adequate, it gets enough by way of DLI. I measure PAR and DLI using Photone mobile app. (I know it won’t be greatly accurate but gives me a benchmark).

The plant has been going along well and hasn’t developed any sexual organs. So it still must be in the veg state right?

 

[guerrillabalconygrower]

When you get your moisture meter you will need to learn to use it... its not as intuitive as you might think. There is only one valid reading on that meter, in all its 3 settings. The pH meter is crap and the light meter is basic and the moisture meter can only show you one thing... where the top of the lake underneath your soil is. When you water, gravity grabs that moisture and pulls it down to the bottom of the container. I suspect that this virtual lake fills 1/3 to 1/2 of your container and every time you water, you raise its level once again so that your lower roots NEVER dry out or see the oxygen that they crave.

Stick your meter probes into the soil and watch as you slowly lower the probes toward the bottom. The meter will read moist... moist... moist... and then suddenly when you hit the top of the water table, it will peg all the way to the right indicating WET. Track where this happens through a few days and watch that water table drop down toward the bottom as the plant uses up that water. It is not time to water until the top of that lake falls down into the bottom inch or two of the container. It won't dry out down there because of capillary action between the roots and the bottom and sides of the container, but as soon as you can see that the water has fallen down that far, it is safe to water.

With water damaged roots, it might take a week or more to dry out your container the first time. Be patient, even if it takes 10 days. Each time you get through a solid wet/dry cycle, your roots will get stronger, and the duration between waterings will diminish. The second time, instead of a week, it might just take 5 days to dry out, and the next time 3 days. Your plant will be getting bigger and healthier as this happens, and eventually, when the plant can dry out your container in a day, it is time to transplant to a bigger container.

Rootballs do not happen by accident. You have to force your plants to work toward that goal and to do that you have to be stingy with their water. A coddled plant will be a weak plant whereas a plant that has been forced to work for its water will be a strong survivor.

Update: 2 to 2.5 inches from top of the soil is the top of the lake. So yes, definite overwatering.

Except for the sapling. The soil is way too dry and compact as one of the users here pointed out. Also way too big a container for a plant that size. Will change soil and repot.

Hopefully I haven’t done too much damage and have room to recover from here. Onwards to the next set of troubles

 

[guerrillabalconygrower]

This is why it is NEVER recommended to start seedlings in large containers. What you are not considering is that a seedlings first goal is to find the bottom of the container with its tap root, and this will happen in the first 3 or 4 days above ground. If you can give that seedling a little bit of water down the middle at first, without soaking the entire container, the root will do what it needs to do. Please read my second article on proper watering which addresses this problem.

The Proper Way To Water A Seedling In A Large Final Container

In the beginning, you may even want to start your seed directly in the final container, simply by putting it one inch deep, pointy end down. It is surprising to some how often this works, even though mother nature does it all the time. If you go this route, lightly mist the area around the...

www.420magazine.com

Repotted seedling to a 0.5 gallon container (don’t have the option of 1 gallon). Depending upon the growth, might pot up to a 2.5 and finally to 3.5