Help me identify this please! Is it cal/mag deficiency? It's brittle

[multiVortex]

If your plants need (for example) 900 ppm of feed, and you start with water that has 60 ppm already in it ... does adding "a couple of table spoons" to both those situations have the same effect and results as my house?

Because at my house; my water (well) runs at somewhere between 300 and 450 ppm. (and a ph of 7.0 o 7.2) If I add "a couple of table spoons" of feed to my bucket, are we going to have the same end results?

While we're at it, apparently math can be troubling for some. Perhaps you're mixing wrong, as seems to be the case here.

Why? In your example, there would be no difference. EC is additive. So either way you still have 900ppm of feed in the water. Doesn't matter if I start with RO, or you start with tap, or Bill starts with distilled. End result is still 900ppm of feed in the water, plus the starting ppm. You add to your base, not include the base number in the total ppm of the feed. So with 900ppm of feed, it's (BaseEC + 900ppm = totalPPM) and not (BaseEC + feed = 900ppm);

 

[The Phantom]

I don't understand this confusion with dosing by TDS or by measure ml/gal, it will get you the same result. Measuring your waters TDS and lowering the amount of nutrients you add so you hit a certain TDS is wrong. The TDS of your water is mostly hard minerals like calcium, not N, P, or K. You should be finding the TDS range your plants need and compensating your feed higher for what you're water is naturally at. Using the example above if your plants need 900 ppm of nutrients and your water is 60 ppm, your mix should be 960 ppm. So if you add a tablespoon, or in the OPs case whatever ml/gal the nutrients say to add, to water of 60 ppm or water of 350 ppm, you still have the same amount of nutrients in each mix just different ppms. If you dosed each of the two water sources to the same ppm, you'll be starving one.

 

[The Phantom]

Beat me to it @multiVortex. I dose based off of gr/gal and only care about TDS to make sure it is falling and my plants are feeding. I never use TDS to mix nutrients.

 

[mcnanovich]

Thank for help. I get an Apera to measure.

 

[multiVortex]

Beat me to it @multiVortex. I dose based off of gr/gal and only care about TDS to make sure it is falling and my plants are feeding. I never use TDS to mix nutrients.

Yep. Mix by the label (or half the label, more likely), then check EC and adjust (if really needed) when done.

 

[Auggie]

No applause. Zero. No soup, either. (Why is Billy Madison in my head roght now?)

All my reservoirs are covered by high quality ec/temp/pH meters that read all parameters of the solution constantly. Cheap pens are nothing more than a guessing game.

Better than nothing, maybe. Depends how far off they are. I’d sure hate for one of those cheap meters to be off by half an EC point.

I don't use EC (prolly should), I go for PPM.
And, I keep two of them so I can check against each other.
The cheap ones work just fine.

Now, Ph meter? Cheap ones do NOT work for crap.
Blue Lab is what I use, and I have two for those times when I look at a reading and think "WTF?" I got something to check against.

When it comes to critical equipment, I like to have two ...

 

[Auggie]

I don't understand this confusion with dosing by TDS or by measure ml/gal, it will get you the same result. Measuring your waters TDS and lowering the amount of nutrients you add so you hit a certain TDS is wrong. The TDS of your water is mostly hard minerals like calcium, not N, P, or K. You should be finding the TDS range your plants need and compensating your feed higher for what you're water is naturally at.

I try to learn something new every day ... is this it?

So, let me restate what I THINK you are saying:
If the PPM of my water is 500.
And the nutes I use say I should be feeding at 900 ppm.
Then, the PPM of my finished feed bucket should be 500 + 900 or 1400 PPM.

Or, if the PPM of my water is 100, I should be nuting at 100 + 900 or 1000 PPM.

Is that right?

 

[The Phantom]

Yes that is correct. The nutrient I use states the following on thier feeding calculator,

*EC is additive, so you measure your base water EC then add in the suggested amount.
For example: Base water EC .2, suggested dosage is 1.1, then final level will be 1.1 + .2 = 1.3

I believe most other nutrient dosing schedules state something similar.

For my RDWC I will measure out how many grams per gallon I want to dose at, mix, and record pH and EC. The next day I check pH/EC, compare against the day before, and check against the "dwc bible" chart to make sure all is good. For my Sunshine Mix (peat/perlite) plants, I measure gr/gal, and dump. Zero measuring of pH or EC. The more you can read your plants the less you will care about TDS and if you use a buffered soil, you can forget about needing to read pH.

 

[Auggie]

if you use a buffered soil

I don't.
I use Canna Coco.

And I think I am pretty good at 'reading' the plant.
They talk to me ya know.
I am The Plant Whisperer.

 

[GoogleGenie]

Cheap pens are nothing more than a guessing game

This simply is not true. I have multiple TDS/EC metres, so that I have something to check my truncheon against. They all read the same (or equivalent ppm-ec). I just prefer the truncheon as it’s useful for mixing nutes. I have not found this to be the case with PH though. PH is worth getting a good one.

 

[Budgie45]

Interesting. I only feed/water once a week. I'm following the Fox Farm nute schedule and I'm doing one flush a month.

Do you use fox farm soil ,

 

[Auggie]

This simply is not true. I have multiple TDS/EC metres, so that I have something to check my truncheon against. They all read the same (or equivalent ppm-ec). I just prefer the truncheon as it’s useful for mixing nutes. I have not found this to be the case with PH though. PH is worth getting a good one.

Yup.
A Ph pen is actually a pretty delicate piece of lab equipment. Gotta keep it wet, not drop it, etc. I've tried the cheap ones and they are not reliable or consistent. I use a Blue Labs and have and extra one that I use as a back up (they do wear out after a while, or get dropped).
I always keep at least two on the shelf to replace when needed, or to confirm a reading.

 

[mcnanovich]

Yes.

Do you use fox farm soil ,
[/QUOTE

 

[Emilya Green]

So much well meaning advice, but no one has asked the right questions so as to get to the bottom of this... and many of you seem to want to disparage and second guess the OP's method.

Let's fix the grow... not the grow you wish he might have.

Fox Farm soil and Fox Farm nutes... Following the directions to the letter... flushing as recommended... I do not see any problems at all with the method or the materials being used or the way things are being measured.

The questions not asked are: what is the pH of your incoming fluids, both with nutes and without? Are you giving nutes every time, or water/nutes/water/nutes all through the grow?

Next, where is this occurring on the plant? If it is down low in the big lower fan leaves and in the middle, that indicates magnesium being lacking. If this is occurring at the top of the plant, it indicates calcium deficiency. Then we need to look to the possible causes... are you using filtered water with no magnesium or calcium in it? Are you under tuned light (LED)? Both of these increase the likelihood that you will have a calcium or magnesium deficiency and there is a good chance that you do need to supplement to fill in the gap.

 

[mcnanovich]

I water and do the nutes once a week.
pH in is about 6.4, pH out is about 6.1.
It started on the top first. Now I'm seeing it on sone bottom leaves.
I use an LED light.
Plant is now on the last 3 weeks of flowering. This just started about 10 days ago, the plant was very healthy.

Thanks for your time.

So much well meaning advice, but no one has asked the right questions so as to get to the bottom of this... and many of you seem to want to disparage and second guess the OP's method.

Let's fix the grow... not the grow you wish he might have.

Fox Farm soil and Fox Farm nutes... Following the directions to the letter... flushing as recommended... I do not see any problems at all with the method or the materials being used or the way things are being measured.

The questions not asked are: what is the pH of your incoming fluids, both with nutes and without? Are you giving nutes every time, or water/nutes/water/nutes all through the grow?

Next, where is this occurring on the plant? If it is down low in the big lower fan leaves and in the middle, that indicates magnesium being lacking. If this is occurring at the top of the plant, it indicates calcium deficiency. Then we need to look to the possible causes... are you using filtered water with no magnesium or calcium in it? Are you under tuned light (LED)? Both of these increase the likelihood that you will have a calcium or magnesium deficiency and there is a good chance that you do need to supplement to fill in the gap.

 

[Emilya Green]

I water and do the nutes once a week.
pH in is about 6.4, pH out is about 6.1.
It started on the top first. Now I'm seeing it on sone bottom leaves.
I use an LED light.
Plant is now on the last 3 weeks of flowering. This just started about 10 days ago, the plant was very healthy.

Thanks for your time.

Ok... pH could be a bit lower in that soil... try 6.3 for better response at the low end of the scale... forget about the runoff pH... it is meaningless. I am still confused about your water/feeding... are you saying you water with nutes once a week? or did you say you give water one time and nutes one time every week? This could be the cause of the dark green... no chance for the plants to clear the soil between flushes.

From your description it sounds like this started as a calcium deficiency and now has morphed into a magnesium deficiency too. This dual deficiency points me to believe that we are dealing with a lockout rather than an actual deficiency, again related to the one feeding once a week with no water between. That has to have something to do with this... Im just failing to see the mechanism that gets us to where you are at.

For now I would recommend supplementing with some calmag... it should help both things that are going on. I still want to get to the bottom of how it is that you can go a week between waterings in a 3 gallon container... something is just not right with this picture. You also didn't answer my question about your water... is it filtered RO water or tap?

 

[mcnanovich]

Every Sunday I feed with nutes and that's all the water it gets for the whole week til the next Sunday comes. I use NY tap water, which is soft water.

 

[Emilya Green]

Do you water to runoff when you give this weekly feed and water?

 

[mcnanovich]

I'm not sure if understand the question, the only water it gets is the water that I add the nutes. It runs off a little. Btw, I did a flush and started to treat with cal/mag supplement and it's showing good results!

 

[Emilya Green]

I'm not sure if understand the question, the only water it gets is the water that I add the nutes. It runs off a little. Btw, I did a flush and started to treat with cal/mag supplement and it's showing good results!

I'm glad that its working for you... just mystified how you can get a 3gal container to last that long between waterings. Do you have vermiculite or water storing crystals in there?