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- #21
Nomoyo
Active Member
How much of a rise or fall of your EC is enough to be considered a rise or fall?
How often is it ok to adjust pH
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- #22
Nomoyo
Active Member
it went up to 6.4 on the 13th so i changed the water and it was ok after that. i started nutrients 2 days ago but now im just using water again because it was too much aparently too much. my EC was .365 my ppm was 167
Delps8
Well-Known Member
If you're measuring using EC, a change of 0.1 units would get my attention and I'd want to have some idea of why that changed. If I get two changes of 0.1, I've got a trend so I need to investigate and, most likely, take action.
Delps8
Well-Known Member
That's seedling strength nutes. Why did you conclude it was too high?
When a seed germinates, the small, round leaves (cotyledons) provide the seedling with nutrients. One serrated leaves appear, the plant needs nutrients from the grow medium. In soil, the soil provides nutrients. In hydro, the grower provides nutrients.
I'd really recommend that you start a grow journal. ATM, you're only getting my input. I'm a new grower (finishing third grow) and I grow in a 35 gallon res (28 usable) so I have limited knowledge (and no experience) about how plants interact with a 5 gallon res.
Having said that, the nute issue isn't res-size-specific. Your plant is in veg so you might want to increase the nute strength and see how things go. I just checked the diary for my current grow and at day 11, the plants went in the res and PPM was 260/500 and by day 15, PPM was 510/500.
Another thing to think about is "plant training". I'm a firm believer in topping plants. If you don't do any plant training, you'll end up with a plant that looks like a Christmas tree, with a large cola in the middle (the "apical cola") and smaller colas on the side branches. That makes lighting tough because you'll have one very large cola at the top and the other colas ½ a foot lower. Most growers do some sort of plant training. For myself, I top my plants and do "low stress training" to grow a short, wide plant the goal being to have an even canopy.
Your plant is approaching the time when she should be topped. Most recommendations are to top around the 21 day mark. I'm not sure when the seed for this plant broke the surface. That would be a good number to track and to publish.
Pictures of the entire plant would be helpful as well as info re. the grow environment. Look for instructions on how to start a grow journal. It will walk you through the pertinent info - date started, nutes, etc. - all the hardware and software that you're using, so to speak. That sort of info is helpful to growers who want to be helpful.
I've attached a very helpful guide that's a screenshot from one of the you tube videos by Dr Bruce Bugbee. He's done a tremendous amount of research on growing hemp. As growers, it's up to us to create and maintain the entire growing environment. Since we're using hydro, the entire environment below the waterline is on us.
It can be a challenge. If you can read through my journals, you'll see some of the issues that I ran into and, with the help of other growers, was able to…come to terms with them, is the best way to put it.
Some of the issues I hit were self-inflicted but sometimes you just get weird shit happening. If you've got a grow journal going, other growers can help with resolving issues.
Morning @Nomoyo. Hope you are well. %.8 to 6.4 is a huge jump, especially for such a little girl. Mine may do that but only when the res. is chock full of roots. May I ask what the temp. of your res. is? And do the sides feel slimy when you last cleaned the bucket? Do you use anything in the res. to help keep it clean? @Delps8 has given you a ton of good info. One thing he mentioned was a drop in ph. during flower. I have only noticed that on a couple of occasions, and still have no clue what caused it to happen. My ph. does a steady climb right from veg through to the last few weeks of flower. At this point it holds steady through to the end. In your last pic. you can see signs of yellowing on the leaves, she is hungry. Once your plant has dropped roots into the solution, always feed, never plain water. She will demand more and more as the roots fill up the bucket. An ec. of .3 would be, roughly, for a two week old plant. In full flower I usually top out at 1.3, any thing much above that and I start to get tip burn. 
Delps8
Well-Known Member
In my previous grow, I hit a serious issue with pH dropping. More accurately, the issue was pH dropping but I misinterpreted it based on blindly following the document I've attached. I kept dropping EC in hopes of getting pH to stop falling. It got absurd when I was at 200 PPM (or whatever) and I was fortunate to get the help of @Rexer and @FelipeBlu.
What I learned is that the plant drives pH by taking up different nutrients. The fact that I had pH dropping in flower was not unusual and was driven by how the plants were functioning in the res.
'Morning @Nomoyo
Looks like you've been getting some stellar advice!
Follow the steps pointed out for slime checks. How's your roots look? Can you share a picture of the roots?
I think your doing fine. I've had times as well with rapid rises like that. Keep ontop of it, and re-adjust ph when needed.
Check your system for light leaks (will create slime as described).
Make sure your res temps are under control.
And keep in mind, when your at low PPM/EC, there's not a lot in the water... thus it really doesn't take much to cause the change in ph. As your PPM/EC raises, more stabilizers should be present (they're in your nutes)
And if your "hot topping", that may also be why your seeing rises like that. I used to hot top, still do the odd time. But I tried changing how I do it, and now I just top with plain RO water when res is low, adjust PH and change res when 60% of EC/PPM is taken up by the plants (or every 7-10 days, whichever comes first).
If your up for some heavy reading, there's a link on ph and hydroponics in my signature- it's filled with tons of info.
Looks like you've been getting some stellar advice!
Follow the steps pointed out for slime checks. How's your roots look? Can you share a picture of the roots?
I think your doing fine. I've had times as well with rapid rises like that. Keep ontop of it, and re-adjust ph when needed.
Check your system for light leaks (will create slime as described).
Make sure your res temps are under control.
And keep in mind, when your at low PPM/EC, there's not a lot in the water... thus it really doesn't take much to cause the change in ph. As your PPM/EC raises, more stabilizers should be present (they're in your nutes)
And if your "hot topping", that may also be why your seeing rises like that. I used to hot top, still do the odd time. But I tried changing how I do it, and now I just top with plain RO water when res is low, adjust PH and change res when 60% of EC/PPM is taken up by the plants (or every 7-10 days, whichever comes first).
If your up for some heavy reading, there's a link on ph and hydroponics in my signature- it's filled with tons of info.
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- #28
Nomoyo
Active Member
now its all droopy. I must have done something wrong.
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- #29
Nomoyo
Active Member
here is the roots and my plant. i dont know why its drooping. according to the chart i was supise to raise the ec so i raised it from .053 to .210 . Should I go back to just water. It was Falling Static Falling. my water temp is 70 F this morning my EC is .189 or 89 ppm my ph was at 6.4 from 5.8 in a 13hr period. Its hard to tell if the water level is going down. I dont think it has but maybe im rushing it. The chart says to change res and lower EC if over 1.4 and to lower it if under 1.0.
Delps8
Well-Known Member
In some cases, that WonderChart is completely wrong. I think you're making the same mistake I did - dropping EC to very low levels to get pH in range. I was lucky to get help when I hit 200 PPM because I knew that was absurdly low. That's where you are.
Your plants are starving. Seedlings should be fed at about 200 PPM. Your plants are in veg so I would look for them to be at an EC of 1.0±.
In jump school (US Army) one of the questions that is asked (it's a setup) - "If my main parachute is completely tangled, who long do I have to pull my reserve chute?" One of the instructors standing on the stage calmly replies, "The rest of your life".
That's where you are.
Your plants are starving. Seedlings should be fed at about 200 PPM. Your plants are in veg so I would look for them to be at an EC of 1.0±.
In jump school (US Army) one of the questions that is asked (it's a setup) - "If my main parachute is completely tangled, who long do I have to pull my reserve chute?" One of the instructors standing on the stage calmly replies, "The rest of your life".
That's where you are.
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- #31
Nomoyo
Active Member
well dang. Im afraid to get nute burn again. Should i use cal mag when i start nutes again?
Delps8
Well-Known Member
I hope my previous posting motivated you to "take appropriate action".
"It was Falling Static Falling.
my water temp is 70 F.
this morning my EC is189 or 89 ppm
my ph was at 6.4 from 5.8 in a 13hr period."
Those are the salient facts.
Water temp is a tad high but acceptable - as temperature rises, the amount of oxygen in the water drops. 68°F is considered a good temperature it's not cold enough to impair nutrient uptake (low 60's IIRC), it's easily attainable by a water chiller, and yet cold enough to have a good amount of DO.
What was your EC/PPM yesterday or last night? I've got to think it dropped overnight. My hunch is that you're EC dropped because your plants are in desperate need of nutes and they pulled in enough nutes to hike pH from 5.8 to 6.x.
When you get a chance to come up for air, read the "Hydroponics and PH" link in Rexers signature block, above. Key paragraphs:
"For example, where hydroponic techniques are used to study the growth of various species apparently preferring different pH levels, researchers usually find that they do reasonably well over a fairly wide pH range (approx. pH 5.2 to 7.5 provided a chelated form of iron is used).
The real issue is in ensuring that enough of any particular ion is in solution at a given pH to cater for the plants nutritional requirements. For example, indoor plants tend to grow equally well between pH 5.2 and 6.3 if nutrients in solution do not become a limiting factor."
What the author is saying is that plants will do well over a broad range of pH as long as the nutes are available. 5.8 is great but there's no issue with pH getting into the (low) 6's.
"Its hard to tell if the water level is going down. I dont think it has but maybe im rushing it."
That's really important info. If your temp and RH are good, you should have water uptake but, of course, if your nutes are out of whack, that will influence water uptake. I don't mean to hurt your hear but all of these factors influence each other.
From what you've said, water may or may not be falling. Only one of those is correct. Get something in there to measure the water level - a ruler, a paint stirrer that's got marks on it.
"The chart says to change res and lower EC if over 1.4 and to lower it if under 1.0."
And if your EC is 1.2? Yeh, the WonderChart is a good guide and it's a good way to get a sense of how pH and EC vary.
"It was Falling Static Falling.
my water temp is 70 F.
this morning my EC is189 or 89 ppm
my ph was at 6.4 from 5.8 in a 13hr period."
Those are the salient facts.
Water temp is a tad high but acceptable - as temperature rises, the amount of oxygen in the water drops. 68°F is considered a good temperature it's not cold enough to impair nutrient uptake (low 60's IIRC), it's easily attainable by a water chiller, and yet cold enough to have a good amount of DO.
What was your EC/PPM yesterday or last night? I've got to think it dropped overnight. My hunch is that you're EC dropped because your plants are in desperate need of nutes and they pulled in enough nutes to hike pH from 5.8 to 6.x.
When you get a chance to come up for air, read the "Hydroponics and PH" link in Rexers signature block, above. Key paragraphs:
"For example, where hydroponic techniques are used to study the growth of various species apparently preferring different pH levels, researchers usually find that they do reasonably well over a fairly wide pH range (approx. pH 5.2 to 7.5 provided a chelated form of iron is used).
The real issue is in ensuring that enough of any particular ion is in solution at a given pH to cater for the plants nutritional requirements. For example, indoor plants tend to grow equally well between pH 5.2 and 6.3 if nutrients in solution do not become a limiting factor."
What the author is saying is that plants will do well over a broad range of pH as long as the nutes are available. 5.8 is great but there's no issue with pH getting into the (low) 6's.
"Its hard to tell if the water level is going down. I dont think it has but maybe im rushing it."
That's really important info. If your temp and RH are good, you should have water uptake but, of course, if your nutes are out of whack, that will influence water uptake. I don't mean to hurt your hear but all of these factors influence each other.
From what you've said, water may or may not be falling. Only one of those is correct.
Get something in there to measure the water level - a ruler, a paint stirrer that's got marks on it. "The chart says to change res and lower EC if over 1.4 and to lower it if under 1.0."
And if your EC is 1.2? Yeh, the WonderChart is a good guide and it's a good way to get a sense of how pH and EC vary.
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Why do you say you got nute burn? I skimmed this thread quickly and didn't see it mentioned. What was your EC when you saw those symptoms? What were the symptoms?
Can you post pictures of the grow environment, the tent, the plants. What are you doing for wind? Temperature control? RH? I can see that you have an air pump - do you have air stones, a diffuser, etc?
If you're using nutrients that are designed for use with cannabis, your nutes should have enough Ca and Mg. I call CalMag a "top shelf" supplement because once you buy it, it should be put on the top shelf and never taken down. I didn't realize that when I started growing (all of 18 months ago!
) but, if your nutes are good, there's no need to Cal Mag.If you start a grow journal and provide all of this environmental info up front, it will be easier for other growers to help.
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- #34
Nomoyo
Active Member
i use a ruller to messure the water level. last night it was .210 then was .189 i figured that was such a small amt it was considered the same as staticI hope my previous posting motivated you to "take appropriate action".
"It was Falling Static Falling.
my water temp is 70 F.
this morning my EC is189 or 89 ppm
my ph was at 6.4 from 5.8 in a 13hr period."
Those are the salient facts.
Water temp is a tad high but acceptable - as temperature rises, the amount of oxygen in the water drops. 68°F is considered a good temperature it's not cold enough to impair nutrient uptake (low 60's IIRC), it's easily attainable by a water chiller, and yet cold enough to have a good amount of DO.
What was your EC/PPM yesterday or last night? I've got to think it dropped overnight. My hunch is that you're EC dropped because your plants are in desperate need of nutes and they pulled in enough nutes to hike pH from 5.8 to 6.x.
When you get a chance to come up for air, read the "Hydroponics and PH" link in Rexers signature block, above. Key paragraphs:
"For example, where hydroponic techniques are used to study the growth of various species apparently preferring different pH levels, researchers usually find that they do reasonably well over a fairly wide pH range (approx. pH 5.2 to 7.5 provided a chelated form of iron is used).
The real issue is in ensuring that enough of any particular ion is in solution at a given pH to cater for the plants nutritional requirements. For example, indoor plants tend to grow equally well between pH 5.2 and 6.3 if nutrients in solution do not become a limiting factor."
What the author is saying is that plants will do well over a broad range of pH as long as the nutes are available. 5.8 is great but there's no issue with pH getting into the (low) 6's.
"Its hard to tell if the water level is going down. I dont think it has but maybe im rushing it."
That's really important info. If your temp and RH are good, you should have water uptake but, of course, if your nutes are out of whack, that will influence water uptake. I don't mean to hurt your hear but all of these factors influence each other.
From what you've said, water may or may not be falling. Only one of those is correct.
"The chart says to change res and lower EC if over 1.4 and to lower it if under 1.0."
And if your EC is 1.2? Yeh, the WonderChart is a good guide and it's a good way to get a sense of how pH and EC vary.
- Thread starter
- #35
Nomoyo
Active Member
my last plant got some nute burnWhy do you say you got nute burn? I skimmed this thread quickly and didn't see it mentioned. What was your EC when you saw those symptoms? What were the symptoms?
Can you post pictures of the grow environment, the tent, the plants. What are you doing for wind? Temperature control? RH? I can see that you have an air pump - do you have air stones, a diffuser, etc?
If you're using nutrients that are designed for use with cannabis, your nutes should have enough Ca and Mg. I call CalMag a "top shelf" supplement because once you buy it, it should be put on the top shelf and never taken down. I didn't realize that when I started growing (all of 18 months ago!
If you start a grow journal and provide all of this environmental info up front, it will be easier for other growers to help.
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Great, get that ruler in there and start tracking water consumption.
"i figured that was such a small amt it was considered the same as static" - they are.
You're probably FSR which is good. The problem is that your pH isn't rising, it's skyrocketing. I'm expecting that once you put some nutes in the bucket, the pH rise won't be so great. If you don't put nutes in the bucket, it won't matter.
The paramedic's motto - all bleeding stops eventually.
- Thread starter
- #37
Nomoyo
Active Member
Why do you say you got nute burn? I skimmed this thread quickly and didn't see it mentioned. What was your EC when you saw those symptoms? What were the symptoms?
Can you post pictures of the grow environment, the tent, the plants. What are you doing for wind? Temperature control? RH? I can see that you have an air pump - do you have air stones, a diffuser, etc?
If you're using nutrients that are designed for use with cannabis, your nutes should have enough Ca and Mg. I call CalMag a "top shelf" supplement because once you buy it, it should be put on the top shelf and never taken down. I didn't realize that when I started growing (all of 18 months ago!
If you start a grow journal and provide all of this environmental info up front, it will be easier for other growers to heli
i have a cople fans and i have an air stone. i agree about the cal mag. Thats hilarious. i will get right on that asap.Why do you say you got nute burn? I skimmed this thread quickly and didn't see it mentioned. What was your EC when you saw those symptoms? What were the symptoms?
Can you post pictures of the grow environment, the tent, the plants. What are you doing for wind? Temperature control? RH? I can see that you have an air pump - do you have air stones, a diffuser, etc?
If you're using nutrients that are designed for use with cannabis, your nutes should have enough Ca and Mg. I call CalMag a "top shelf" supplement because once you buy it, it should be put on the top shelf and never taken down. I didn't realize that when I started growing (all of 18 months ago!
If you start a grow journal and provide all of this environmental info up front, it will be easier for other growers to help
Delps8
Well-Known Member
"last plant" - sorry, I misread that. I thought you were talking about this plant has had nute burn.
This plant was looking great until very recently. Key question - what did I do//not do that might have caused this?
Delps8
Well-Known Member
OK, so air and O2 are covered. I'm trying to walk you through the 9 parameters, BTW.
"i agree about the cal mag. That's hilarious" - good. Glad you took it the right way.
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Heh, it's 4:20. We know what that means!
