How often is it ok to adjust pH

[Delps8]

Great, get that ruler in there and start tracking water consumption.

"i figured that was such a small amt it was considered the same as static" - they are.

You're probably FSR which is good. The problem is that your pH isn't rising, it's skyrocketing. I'm expecting that once you put some nutes in the bucket, the pH rise won't be so great. If you don't put nutes in the bucket, it won't matter.

The paramedic's motto - all bleeding stops eventually.

"210 then was .189"

"i figured that was such a small amt it was considered the same as static" - they are.

What I wrote was incorrect. Please accept my apology. That's ≈ 0.2" but it's clear signal and not insignificant. That's good news.

 

[bluenoserjoe]

Morning @Nomoyo You are getting great advice on here. Sad your plant seems to have continued on a down slide. Best advice so far is feed, feed and feed. Your girl is starving. With healthy roots like that she should be ec. .7or.8, maybe higher, depending on all other factors, she shouldn't burn at that rate. One point I would have to disagree on would be the cal/mag. Under led lighting you really have to up the amount, don't believe there is enough in most nutes to allow for this. Your last plant pic. is showing a classic case of calcium deficiency.

 

[eggzin]

Just thought I'd interject.

The clay pellets may be what's causing the Ph to rise so rapidly--if they're new and un-used (or even almost un-used). It's very hard to get the alkaline out of the clay pellets.

 

[Rexer]

here is the roots and my plant. i dont know why its drooping. according to the chart i was supise to raise the ec so i raised it from .053 to .210 . Should I go back to just water. It was Falling Static Falling. my water temp is 70 F this morning my EC is .189 or 89 ppm my ph was at 6.4 from 5.8 in a 13hr period. Its hard to tell if the water level is going down. I dont think it has but maybe im rushing it. The chart says to change res and lower EC if over 1.4 and to lower it if under 1.0.

Delps has got you covered, and I agree, some small bumps need to be done, and cal mag added. Make sure you add your nutrients in the correct order.
I'm terrible with EC, but your plants should be feeding around the 300-450 PPM range based on their size.

And they need some cal mag asap.
Beautiful roots btw

 

[Delps8]

A comment about using CalMag…

For a lot of growers, CalMag is a reflex answer. That attitude seems more prevalent on other sites than it is here. The way that I look at using CalMag is that it's akin to a dietary supplement — if an individual has a dietary deficiency, a supplement may be warranted. Unfortunately, many people use supplements as part of their diet which leads to the saying "Americans have the most expensive urine in the world.", that being that, since most of us intake far more nutrients than we need to, we're pissing away our money.

Re. it's needed when you're using LED's. I don't ascribe to that for a few reasons.

Light sources generate photons that vibrate at different frequencies. The photons hit the plant and the plant reacts. The photons from sunlight, HPS, CFL, blurple LED, blue LED, white light LED, far red LED, candle light, moonlight, etc. are photons that vibrate at different frequencies. If the photons are the same, why would we need to change the nutrient mix?

Perhaps it's a different under LED because LED's don't heat the plant the way incandescent lights do? Perhaps that's the case and I'd love to see the research that indicates that nutrient mix should change due to a change in temperature.

Cannabis nutrient manufacturers do not provide or recommend nutrient mixes based on light source. Perhaps it's too expensive to create different SKU's for incandescent vs LED but did they have different mixes when incandescent lights dominated the market? Manufacturers recommend different nute mixes at different stages of growth but is there any company recommending a different blend for a different light source?

I have read reams of pages of discussion of nutrients by people who make their own nutrients. What is discussed is the acceptable ranges of the various nutrients and the ratios of some of the chemicals but I have seen a mention of changing nutrient mix based on the light source.

I have read numerous research papers on recommended nutrient ranges for plants, including cannabis. There has never been a mention of changing nutrient mix based on the light source.

A lot of growers recommend adding CalMag but, I haven't been able to find an unimpeachable reason to use it as part of my nute mix. Lacking that, I'll stick to 3-2-0.

 

[Delps8]

A comment about using CalMag…

For a lot of growers, CalMag is a reflex answer. That attitude seems more prevalent on other sites than it is here. The way that I look at using CalMag is that it's akin to a dietary supplement — if an individual has a dietary deficiency, a supplement may be warranted. Unfortunately, many people use supplements as part of their diet which leads to the saying "Americans have the most expensive urine in the world.", that being that, since most of us intake far more nutrients than we need to, we're pissing away our money.

Re. it's needed when you're using LED's. I don't ascribe to that for a few reasons.

Light sources generate photons that vibrate at different frequencies. The photons hit the plant and the plant reacts. The photons from sunlight, HPS, CFL, blurple LED, blue LED, white light LED, far red LED, candle light, moonlight, etc. are photons that vibrate at different frequencies. If the photons are the same, why would we need to change the nutrient mix?

Perhaps it's a different under LED because LED's don't heat the plant the way incandescent lights do? Perhaps that's the case and I'd love to see the research that indicates that nutrient mix should change due to a change in temperature.

Cannabis nutrient manufacturers do not provide or recommend nutrient mixes based on light source. Perhaps it's too expensive to create different SKU's for incandescent vs LED but did they have different mixes when incandescent lights dominated the market? Manufacturers recommend different nute mixes at different stages of growth but is there any company recommending a different blend for a different light source?

I have read reams of pages of discussion of nutrients by people who make their own nutrients. What is discussed is the acceptable ranges of the various nutrients and the ratios of some of the chemicals but I have seen a mention of changing nutrient mix based on the light source.

I have read numerous research papers on recommended nutrient ranges for plants, including cannabis. There has never been a mention of changing nutrient mix based on the light source.

A lot of growers recommend adding CalMag but, I haven't been able to find an unimpeachable reason to use it as part of my nute mix. Lacking that, I'll stick to 3-2-0.

I should have used "wavelength" rather than "vibrate at different frequencies". The latter is correct but obscure, the former is more commonly used.

 

[bluenoserjoe]

I am really not sure whether plants under LED's need more cal/mag or not. I do so as this is how I was taught. If it works don't fix it. I do know that the above pic. shows a classic calcium def., along with other signs that she is hungry.

 

[Delps8]

I am really not sure whether plants under LED's need more cal/mag or not. I do so as this is how I was taught. If it works don't fix it. I do know that the above pic. shows a classic calcium def., along with other signs that she is hungry.

And it's amazing how quickly it turned. The plant was looking good on Friday and hit the skids by Tuesday. Ouch.

 

[Delps8]

Hmm, OP last seen on Tuesday PM. It's Saturday AM and not a peep since. I hope he gots some nutes into that bucket - the plant was looking really good.

 

[Nomoyo]

sorry Ive been busy with work and family. Yes I added nutes .Not alot because im affraid of nute burn. my bucket has 5inches of water and that is aprox 2.5 gallons. My EC was @ .612 on thursday then Friday it went down slightly .578 consumed .5 inches in 2 days and my PH seems to be staying at 5.9. Today I added water so its back to 5inches and that lowered my EC to .497 and rsised my ph to 6.0.. I need to figure out a way to lower my water temp by 2 degrees durring the day and evening. Ill post a pic. it has dead spots on some leafs. I was going to ask what that might be. Im using Cutting Edge Solutions. "Micro" @ 3ml (for 2.5galloins), "Grow" @ 4ml and Bloom @ 4ml. I was going to do that reading you told me to do but I actually couldnt figure out where to go for that.

 

[Nomoyo]

Heres pics from now

 

[Nomoyo]

A comment about using CalMag…

For a lot of growers, CalMag is a reflex answer. That attitude seems more prevalent on other sites than it is here. The way that I look at using CalMag is that it's akin to a dietary supplement — if an individual has a dietary deficiency, a supplement may be warranted. Unfortunately, many people use supplements as part of their diet which leads to the saying "Americans have the most expensive urine in the world.", that being that, since most of us intake far more nutrients than we need to, we're pissing away our money.

Re. it's needed when you're using LED's. I don't ascribe to that for a few reasons.

Light sources generate photons that vibrate at different frequencies. The photons hit the plant and the plant reacts. The photons from sunlight, HPS, CFL, blurple LED, blue LED, white light LED, far red LED, candle light, moonlight, etc. are photons that vibrate at different frequencies. If the photons are the same, why would we need to change the nutrient mix?

Perhaps it's a different under LED because LED's don't heat the plant the way incandescent lights do? Perhaps that's the case and I'd love to see the research that indicates that nutrient mix should change due to a change in temperature.

Cannabis nutrient manufacturers do not provide or recommend nutrient mixes based on light source. Perhaps it's too expensive to create different SKU's for incandescent vs LED but did they have different mixes when incandescent lights dominated the market? Manufacturers recommend different nute mixes at different stages of growth but is there any company recommending a different blend for a different light source?

I have read reams of pages of discussion of nutrients by people who make their own nutrients. What is discussed is the acceptable ranges of the various nutrients and the ratios of some of the chemicals but I have seen a mention of changing nutrient mix based on the light source.

I have read numerous research papers on recommended nutrient ranges for plants, including cannabis. There has never been a mention of changing nutrient mix based on the light source.

A lot of growers recommend adding CalMag but, I haven't been able to find an unimpeachable reason to use it as part of my nute mix. Lacking that, I'll stick to 3-2-0.

evry time i try to use calmag my (hydrponic) plants get this orange rust looking spots on some leafs and Ive had a few (outdoor soil grown) die from using the calmag when it wasnt needed. I understand thats part of growing. Had i not done that i wouldnt know to be more carefull with Calmag. I started reading Rexxers "Hydroponic and PH' is the one I was needing to read?

 

[Delps8]

Yes. The article provides good info on nutrients in hydro. What it reinforced for me was that dropping pH and/or rising EC is what may very well happen at various times in a grow cycle.

 

[Delps8]

sorry Ive been busy with work and family. Yes I added nutes .Not alot because im affraid of nute burn. my bucket has 5inches of water and that is aprox 2.5 gallons. My EC was @ .612 on thursday then Friday it went down slightly .578 consumed .5 inches in 2 days and my PH seems to be staying at 5.9. Today I added water so its back to 5inches and that lowered my EC to .497 and rsised my ph to 6.0.. I need to figure out a way to lower my water temp by 2 degrees durring the day and evening. Ill post a pic. it has dead spots on some leafs. I was going to ask what that might be. Im using Cutting Edge Solutions. "Micro" @ 3ml (for 2.5galloins), "Grow" @ 4ml and Bloom @ 4ml. I was going to do that reading you told me to do but I actually couldnt figure out where to go for that.

½" water is good. Let's hope that continues.

The fact that EC dropped indicates that plants are taking up nutes faster than they're taking up water. That's a good sign. When you add water (RO?) and drop EC further, you're diluting the amount of nutes in the res so I would expect that you'll see a further drop in EC as the plant feeds.

When water level drops, many growers add water instead of nutrients. My practice is to add RO + nutes as needed to bring EC back to the previous level.

Your plant is clearly in the vegetative stage. You are providing nutrients at the nutrient level given to seedlings which is about 50% of the nutrient level recommended for a plant in the vegetative stage. I would expect that the plant will continue to suffer nutrient deficiency unless you raise the nutrient levels.


Re. your nutrient mix - When I use the calculator at this link, your nutrient levels appear to be off. Take a moment to check the math.

Plug in 2.5 gallons and, in veg stage, the recommended amounts for Micro, Grow, and Bloom are 20, 37.5, and 12.5 ml, respectively. At 33 - 50% strength, as they recommend in the footnotes, the values would be 6.6 - 10 ml, 12 - 19 ml, and 4 to 6 ml. In contrast, you're feeding 3, 4, and 4. The amounts that you're feeding are a fraction of the already diluted levels of nutes that the manufacturer recommends.

In addition, the ratio of the nutes that you're feeding them is different than what the manufacturer recommends. The ratio that you're using is 3-4-4 while they recommend, roughly speaking, 3-6-2'ish.

The overall nutrient level is important but the ratio between the nutrients is as important or, arguably, more so. Based on the data you've provided and the data from the manufacturer, your plant is getting twice the level of Grow and about ½ the level of Bloom. It looks like the nute mix for "Transition" rather than the nutes for "Vegetative".

Unless you specifically want to provide nutrients in those ratios, it might be good to switch to what the manufacturer recommends and see how that plants react.

Another option would be to call the manufacturer and see what they come up with.

 

[Nomoyo]

Morning @Nomoyo. Hope you are well. %.8 to 6.4 is a huge jump, especially for such a little girl. Mine may do that but only when the res. is chock full of roots. May I ask what the temp. of your res. is? And do the sides feel slimy when you last cleaned the bucket? Do you use anything in the res. to help keep it clean? @Delps8 has given you a ton of good info. One thing he mentioned was a drop in ph. during flower. I have only noticed that on a couple of occasions, and still have no clue what caused it to happen. My ph. does a steady climb right from veg through to the last few weeks of flower. At this point it holds steady through to the end. In your last pic. you can see signs of yellowing on the leaves, she is hungry. Once your plant has dropped roots into the solution, always feed, never plain water. She will demand more and more as the roots fill up the bucket. An ec. of .3 would be, roughly, for a two week old plant. In full flower I usually top out at 1.3, any thing much above that and I start to get tip burn.

68 to 72. Sorry i just saw this

 

[Nomoyo]

i am going to top and LST

 

[Nomoyo]

In my previous grow, I hit a serious issue with pH dropping. More accurately, the issue was pH dropping but I misinterpreted it based on blindly following the document I've attached. I kept dropping EC in hopes of getting pH to stop falling. It got absurd when I was at 200 PPM (or whatever) and I was fortunate to get the help of @Rexer and @FelipeBlu.

What I learned is that the plant drives pH by taking up different nutrients. The fact that I had pH dropping in flower was not unusual and was driven by how the plants were functioning in the res.

how low should i let my ec get before adding nutrients. Ive just been adding water

 

[Delps8]

"how low should i let my ec get before adding nutrients. Ive just been adding water"
Look at how this question approaches the issue is "What is the appropriate concentration and mix of nutes that my plant needs to thrive?"

A healthy plant is what you're aiming for, right? Cannabis plants in veg typically do well with an EC of 1.0 but that's only a general guideline.

Cutting Edge Solutions has a page on their site (click here) that a gives you information that's needed to mix the nutrients that you're using. Unless I had fact-based reasons to not follow their recommendations, I would follow their recommendations.

My practice is to add nutes and RO water to bring the res back to its state after my previous res change. From the information you have posted and the information on the Cutting Edge Solution web site leads me to conclude that you are not only underfeeding your plants but you're feeding them nutes that are mixed in the wrong ratios.

What is your water source? Without knowing the source of your water, it is impossible to provide accurate advice on how to feed your plant.

A key issue - as I've asked a few times - what is your water source?

Unless you're using RO or distilled, your water has an unknown level of nutrients in it.

If you're using city water, get a water quality report, and post a copy of it here. In the interim, stop using city water because we have no idea what's in it.

If you're on well water, get a water quality report and post it here but. In the interim, stop using well water because we have no idea what's in it.

Information about what's in your water forms the basis of how to feed your plants. If you've got well water with lots of calcium, for example, your nute mix should be different than if you're using distilled water or RO water.

Again, it would help if you moved this thread to Grow Journals and filled out the information that people need to make recommendations. The reason I stress this is that after sharing one piece of information about the nutes that you're using, it appears that you're feeding your plant not only too few nutes and that the nutes that you're created are mixed incorrectly.

Increasing the concentration of nutrients has had a direct and dramatic impact on your plant. Even in the short time that I've been growing cannabis, it's clear that it is a very hardy, forgiving plant. In just a few days, a simple change in what you're feeding your plant has…breathed the breath of life back into it. You were in a flat spin, but your plant is in much better shape now.

Hydro can be tough because it's all on the grower. It looks like your nutes are out of whack but the manufacturers website has good instructions on how to remedy that. Your water temp is a bit high but nothing that HydroGuard can't handle. Clean those two up and then make sure that the rest of the other factors (light, wind, etc.) stay in line and you will be amazed how this plant will reward you.

 

[bluenoserjoe]

68 to 72. Sorry i just saw this

68is good and 72 to warm. I take it this is lights off/on. A couple suggestions to help with the higher temps. First, wrap your bucket with an insulating material, preferably something reflective. This should help stabilized the temps. Second, get a longer airline and move your air pump outside the tent to a cooler location. As of now you are pumping air, heated by your lights, through your nutrient solution. The air pump itself is a source of heat that may or may not be wanted in your tent as well. The bigger the pump the more heat it produces. By the way, bigger is better, you want your solution to look as though it is boiling when the air is on. I set my pump out side of the grow room and on a cool concrete floor, made a noticeable difference.

 

[Nomoyo]

"how low should i let my ec get before adding nutrients. Ive just been adding water"
Look at how this question approaches the issue is "What is the appropriate concentration and mix of nutes that my plant needs to thrive?"

A healthy plant is what you're aiming for, right? Cannabis plants in veg typically do well with an EC of 1.0 but that's only a general guideline.

Cutting Edge Solutions has a page on their site (click here) that a gives you information that's needed to mix the nutrients that you're using. Unless I had fact-based reasons to not follow their recommendations, I would follow their recommendations.

My practice is to add nutes and RO water to bring the res back to its state after my previous res change. From the information you have posted and the information on the Cutting Edge Solution web site leads me to conclude that you are not only underfeeding your plants but you're feeding them nutes that are mixed in the wrong ratios.

What is your water source? Without knowing the source of your water, it is impossible to provide accurate advice on how to feed your plant.

A key issue - as I've asked a few times - what is your water source?

Unless you're using RO or distilled, your water has an unknown level of nutrients in it.

If you're using city water, get a water quality report, and post a copy of it here. In the interim, stop using city water because we have no idea what's in it.

If you're on well water, get a water quality report and post it here but. In the interim, stop using well water because we have no idea what's in it.

Information about what's in your water forms the basis of how to feed your plants. If you've got well water with lots of calcium, for example, your nute mix should be different than if you're using distilled water or RO water.

Again, it would help if you moved this thread to Grow Journals and filled out the information that people need to make recommendations. The reason I stress this is that after sharing one piece of information about the nutes that you're using, it appears that you're feeding your plant not only too few nutes and that the nutes that you're created are mixed incorrectly.

Increasing the concentration of nutrients has had a direct and dramatic impact on your plant. Even in the short time that I've been growing cannabis, it's clear that it is a very hardy, forgiving plant. In just a few days, a simple change in what you're feeding your plant has…breathed the breath of life back into it. You were in a flat spin, but your plant is in much better shape now.

Hydro can be tough because it's all on the grower. It looks like your nutes are out of whack but the manufacturers website has good instructions on how to remedy that. Your water temp is a bit high but nothing that HydroGuard can't handle. Clean those two up and then make sure that the rest of the other factors (light, wind, etc.) stay in line and you will be amazed how this plant will reward you.

Hi sorry yes Im using RO water. Ive had these nutrients at recommended levels and i got nute burn. ill move the thread later i gotta go to work now. i see now i was being too carefull and i honestly didnt trust there grow chart after the last grow so i have been holding back and aparentlly giving too much at the same time. My ph is dropping right now and its drinking alot of water and my EC is dropping. Everything is going down. I cant work on it till i get home way later tonight and by that time you guys will probably be asleep ill adjust the nutrients accordingly asap