Legalized Or Not, L.A. Lawmakers Will Go After Pot

[Slizzard]

**Any federal crackdown will be just as futile as the government's attempt to stamp out medical marijuana after Californians passed Proposition 215 in 1996, said Dale Gieringer, state director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws.

Despite numerous raids and arrests, he said, "the federal government showed itself incapable of halting the spread of medical marijuana, which is now legally recognized in 14 states and enjoyed by hundreds of thousands of legal patients."

Gieringer added, "The federal government similarly lacks the manpower and resources to pursue California's 3 million marijuana users."**

 

[Seraphim]

Its a scare tactic.

"Don't do this or we will come and git you!!!"

Except, if there are too many doing it you can't go after everyone. It's logistically impossible.

YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!! YES ON 19!!!!

 

[stonedrock]

Or if the authorities do want to arrest everyone once it passes then everyone should go out , get arrested, there will be so many people, the courts will be swamped with BS weed arrests it will 1.be way to much to handle as they can't handle the courts now, and 2. where they going to put all them pot killers when theres no prison room. They have a catch 22 system on there hands and not enough gun powder to handle it.

 

[FastLan3]

Together, the laws of the federal and state governments form U.S. law. FEDERAL LAW DOES NOT TRUMP STATE LAW

The Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the Federal Government from exercising any power not delegated to it by the States in the Constitution; as a result, states handle the majority of issues most relevant to individuals within their jurisdiction. Because state governments lack the power to print currency, they must raise revenue either through taxes or bonds (both of which are politically unpopular due to the extensive national levies provided by the federal personal income tax ). As a result, state governments tend to impose severe budget cuts when states do not cooperate.

State Constitution provisions are equal in breadth to those of the U.S. Constitution, but are considered "parallel" (thus, where, for example, the right to privacy pursuant to a State Constitution is broader than the federal right to privacy, and the asserted ground is explicitly held to be "independent", the question can be finally decided in a State Supreme Court–the U.S. Supreme Court will decline to take jurisdiction).

Simply put, there will be a long drawn out court decisions and appeals.

Unfortunately a federal district court hearing a matter involving only a question of State law (usually through diversity jurisdiction) must apply the substantive law of the State in which the court sits, a result of the application of the Erie Doctrine; however, at the same time, the case is heard under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, and the Federal Rules of Evidence instead of State procedural rules.

Our only hope is Congressional oversight. Which is intended to prevent waste and fraud, protect civil liberties and individual rights, ensure executive compliance with the law, gather information for making laws and educating the public, and evaluate executive performance.

 

[G-Dog]

What I wonder is if the Fed Sues the day this passes with a properly prepared suit if it throws the whole state law in the washing machine until it is resolved. One of the tactics of lawyers is to stall outcomes, as we all know.

 

[Slizzard]

Who knows. All we can do is hope the Feds remain as useless at stopping Prop 19 as they were with Prop 215 in 1996.

 

[paw-paw]

all these thoughts are legit, but there's only one thing u have to remember. "IT'S A-L-W-A-Y-S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! any time u have a question about why gov't is doing what it's doing...just follow the money. at the end of the money trail...all u're questions will be answered. EVERY TIME!

 

[Liquid Metal]

This outlook of theirs also proves that what they do is for them, not us.

so what you are saying is why would they care if cannabis can help others for health reasons the;re doing it for profit..

 

[Odin]

Who knows. All we can do is hope the Feds remain as useless at stopping Prop 19 as they were with Prop 215 in 1996.

The point isn't that their efforts are useless or futile.

Rather its the results of their attempts. The lives lost, good people locked up, and families destroyed in the process. Been watching it happen to medical users and growers since 1996. Useless or not, its the damage they do to good people along the way. We have to keeping fighting the fight, but we all have to accept that our friends and family could be the ones to pay the price along the way, if not ourselves.

 

[Slizzard]

so what you are saying is why would they care if cannabis can help others for health reasons the;re doing it for profit..

Exactly. They have been maintaining the effort to enforce a prohibition that's been failing since the beginning, knowing that the people are the ones who are suffering from it. As many people keep saying, it's all about the money to them.

 

[Slizzard]

The point isn't that their efforts are useless or futile.

Rather its the results of their attempts. The lives lost, good people locked up, and families destroyed in the process. Been watching it happen to medical users and growers since 1996. Useless or not, its the damage they do to good people along the way. We have to keeping fighting the fight, but we all have to accept that our friends and family could be the ones to pay the price along the way, if not ourselves.

Actually, The POINT in my post IS that their efforts were useless. Did they successfully stop Prop 215? No, they tried and failed.
(Useless- being or having no beneficial use)
Would you say that their efforts were beneficial? No you wouldn't. Your entire post just explained about a few of the fallen ones in this struggle. You yourself just said "its the damage they do to good people along the way."
So yes, their attempts to stop Prop 215 were in fact useless. They did absolutely NOTHING beneficial to our people, nor did they do anything beneficial to themselves in their fight to maintain prohibition. Sorry i confused you with the word "useless." I've put the definition in this post for you.

 

[Hogdady]

If 19 passes, it won't be long before the Feds have to reclassify Cannabis. Bear in mind that they have recently decided to allow VA patients with MMJ prescriptions to medicate on Federal property! That opens a very big door....

 

[Odin]

Actually, The POINT in my post IS that their efforts were useless. Did they successfully stop Prop 215? No, they tried and failed.
(Useless- being or having no beneficial use)
Would you say that their efforts were beneficial? No you wouldn't. Your entire post just explained about a few of the fallen ones in this struggle. You yourself just said "its the damage they do to good people along the way."
So yes, their attempts to stop Prop 215 were in fact useless. They did absolutely NOTHING beneficial to our people, nor did they do anything beneficial to themselves in their fight to maintain prohibition. Sorry i confused you with the word "useless." I've put the definition in this post for you.

I know what your point is. I read your post and replied to it. My point which you failed to comprehend, was that YOUR point is trivial at best. They never even tried that hard to stop 215. Because it didn't matter. 215 had the implications of a future world of legalized pot, not soon, but 10-20 years down the road and with its passing anyone with a clue could see that. Especially after the Feds stopped trying to stop 215 right after it passed, and just went after the people, legal under state law or not. They haven't been trying to stop 215 for a long time. They are just using Federal law to trump state law. What it did for the Feds was open the door for them to spend more money battling pot in California and other states that followed suit. Regardless of state law. It put the once black market on a new, much more visible and easily accesible and trackable level for the Feds.

They lose some, and win many. And ultimately they always come out ahead. So yes, I do say their efforts were beneficial. To them. The Government has been reaping the benefits of the War on Drugs for almost 100 years. The "War on 215" if you will, for 15 years. How many years will the War on California wage before it ends? We all know much like the Wars in the middle east, there never will be a victory in these Wars. Why? Because the government has agendas and GAINS from these "wars", and never ending wars get them what they want/need.

They will either find a way to make our votes invalid, or they will come full force. If it does pass, it needs to spread like a wildfire. It can't be gradual, like MMJ. It needs to blow up across the country, instantly, to work. Otherwise we are just going to be in the same situation CA has been in since 215. Legal citizens going down for crimes that aren't crimes under State Law.

I hope I didn't use too many big words. I can send you a link to a copy of The War on Drugs for Dummies if you'd like. Full legalization of pot and hemp is the biggest threat to Government profits in history. They are not going to let it slip by them without a fight. I'm just trying to get people to brace for the real fight, which a lot of people would rather blindly ignore as even a remote possibility, than keep in mind for whats may come. Whats about to go down in November is nothing.

If 19 passes, it won't be long before the Feds have to reclassify Cannabis. Bear in mind that they have recently decided to allow VA patients with MMJ prescriptions to medicate on Federal property! That opens a very big door....

That is definitely hopeful. What we need is an immediate chain reaction from other states. It can't be a slow trickle like after 215. It needs to be fast and hard to work.

 

[truthwinsall]

In America the government governs with with consent of the governed. If consent is gained fraudulently it is null and void. Court cases consistently rule that fraud negates consent. This means those who enforce fraudulent laws are accessories after the fact and can be held liable for their crimes.

Consider the following information. Ignorance is no excuse.

DARE TO TELL THE TRUTH

How do you feel when you have been lied to and deceived? If you discovered that a law, statute, regulation or policy was created based upon deception and falsehood would you still support or enforce it? Will you be held accountable one day?

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it" - Adolf Hitler

How it all began... Harry Anslinger had led in alcohol prohibition from 1929-1930. In 1930 he became America's first drug czar and led in a new prohibition campaign. Here are words spoken by Harry Anslinger that he used to justify prohibition of a plant which had been used as food, clothing and medicine for thousands of years.

- "...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races." -Harry J. Anslinger, "Gore Files"

- "Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men." -Harry J. Anslinger, "Gore Files"

- "There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jass and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others." -Harry J. Anslinger, "testimony to US Congress supporting Marahuana Tax Act, 1937"

- "I wish I could show you what a small marijuana cigarette can do to one of our degenerate Spanish-speaking residents. That's why our problem is so great; the greatest percentage of our population is composed of Spanish-speaking persons, most of who are low mentally, because of social and racial conditions."

- "Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing."

- "Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death."

- "You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother."

- "Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind."

The Shafer Commission...

In 1972 President Nixon appointed Governor Raymond P. Shafer of Pennsylvania, a former prosecutor known as a law and order governor, to head a Commission to study the facts about Marijuana. The bipartisan panel included a congressman and senator from each party, as well as, nine people appointed by Richard Nixon including the dean of a law school, the head of a mental health hospital, and a retired Chicago police captain. The Shafer Commission produced a report called, The Report of the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse - Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding. This report concluded the following:

- "Neither the marihuana user nor the drug itself can be said to constitute a danger to public safety." (p. 78)

- "Recent research has not yet proven that marihuana use significantly impairs driving ability or performance." (p. 79)

- "In sum, the weight of the evidence is that marihuana does not cause violent or aggressive behavior; if anything marihuana serves to inhibit the expression of such behavior." (p. 73)

- "No verification is found of a causal relationship between marihuana use and subsequent heroin use." (p. 88)

- "In short marihuana is not generally viewed by participants in the criminal justice community as a major contributing influence in the commission of delinquent or criminal acts." (p. 75)

- "Most users, young and old, demonstrate an average or above-average degree of social functioning, academic achievement, and job performance." (p. 96)

- "No valid stereotype of a marihuana user or non-user can be drawn." (p. 36)

- "Young people who choose to experiment with marihuana are fundamentally the same people, socially and psychologically, as those who use alcohol and tobacco." (p. 42)

- "No significant physical, biochemical, or mental abnormalities could be attributed solely to their marihuana smoking." (p. 61)

- "No reliable evidence exists indicating that marihuana causes genetic defects in man." (p. 84)

- "Marihuana's relative potential for harm to the vast majority of individual users and its actual impact on society does not justify a social policy designed to seek out and firmly punish those who use it." (p. 130)

The Shafer Commission findings were based upon facts and science. However, President Nixon, speaking with Bob Haldeman in the Oval Office one month after he had been told his national commission would urge marijuana decriminalization had a different agenda: "I want a Goddamn strong statement about marijuana. Can I get that out of this son-of-a-bitching, uh, Domestic Council? . . I mean one on marijuana that just tears the ass out of them." Nixon refused to read the report. Instead, he declared Marijuana public enemy number one. His view regarding educating the public on marijuana was: "Enforce the law; you've got to scare them." Laws created from fraud are lawless and should not be enforced. Hitler created laws. History shows what happens when bad laws are enforced. George Washington said, "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." Thomas Jefferson said, "Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."

Here is the report Nixon refused to read:

Marihuana, A Signal of Misunderstanding - Table of Contents
Nixon tape transcripts are here: Nixon, Marijuana, and the Shafer Commission

Invasion of personal privacy

The most repugnant invasion of privacy is the random 'drug' test. Employees are coerced into signing a paper under threat of losing their jobs. Anything signed under coercion is unlawful, null and void. The Declaration of Independence declares we all have certain unalienable rights given by our Creator which cannot be transferred or revoked. Random drug tests are a violation of the 5th amendment concerning self-incrimination and a violation of the 4th amendment concerning search and seizure without probable cause. It assumes everyone is 'guilty' until proven 'innocent'. This is against the spirit upon which America was founded.

Fraud negates consent

From Anslinger to Nixon to employers it has all been pushed by fraud. A law, statute, regulation or policy created from fraud is not law but is itself the very essence of lawlessness, tyranny and evil.

"All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void." Marbury vs. Madison 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803)

Those who violate the highest laws of the land are participating in the erosion and destruction of everyone's God-given liberties. They are aiding and abetting criminal activity. Thomas Jefferson said, "Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."

What does the Bible say?

God created Cannabis (Marijuana) and called it good - Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. (31) And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Cannabis seeds are 33% protein).

False teachers command to abstain from meats - 1Ti 4:1-5 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: (5) For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

What goes into your body does not make you evil - Mar 7:18-21 (18) And he said to them, Have even you so little wisdom? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside is not able to make him unclean, (19) because it goes not into the heart but into the stomach, and goes out with the waste? He said this, making all food clean. (20) And he said, That which comes out of the man, that makes the man unclean. (21) Because from inside, from the heart of men, come evil thoughts and unclean pleasures,

Do not judge people who use it - Rom 14:2-4 (2) For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. (3) Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. (4) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (16) Let not then your good be evil spoken of: (17) For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Mankind ate from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Every since then he has made bad decisions about what is good and what is evil. Only God can make this decision. God called it good. Man calls it evil. Who are you going to believe?

Facts about Marijuana (slang term) also known as Hemp (common name) or Cannabis (scientific name)

For more information start here: Hemp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- The Constitution drafts were written on Cannabis (Hemp/Marijuana) paper. George Washington grew it and kept notes on growing methods. He used it for toothaches. He asked the Colonial farmers to grow Cannabis to strengthen America.

- During WWII farmers were urged to grow Cannabis for rope for the war effort. The film was called 'Hemp for Victory'

- Cannabis is the strongest natural fiber known to mankind. It is easier to grow than cotton. Clothes made from Cannabis are superior to Cotton. Cannabis makes the strongest natural rope known to mankind.

- Cannabis seeds are 33% protein and full of trace minerals and essential fatty acids. It has everything the human body needs for survival and health. The oils could easily be used to power diesel engines.

- Cannabis flowers and leaves have been used for centuries to treat depression, PMS, headaches, pain, swelling, cramps, violent behavior and recently has been used for Glaucoma, Cancer, ADHD, Autism, Alcoholism, Hypertension, Diabetes. Medical benefits are well-documented at Phoenix Tears - Promoting Hemp Oil as a natural healing agent... or watch "Run From The Cure" on YouTube.

- Nobody has ever died of a Cannabis overdose. It is not addicting and there are no withdrawals. There is no memory loss and concentration is improved for ADHD. Cannabis does not affect academic or work performance. It does not make people lazy. These are all stereotypes pushed by propaganda campaigns.

Those who support this lie show utter contempt for America and the liberties upon which it was founded. You have a moral obligation to tell the truth and expose the lies. Now that you know this information what will you do? Will you continue to support or enforce the throwing of human beings in jail over a plant? Think about it. What would happen if coffee were made illegal? Do you like being lied to? You can no longer plead ignorance. When you obey, follow orders, participate, cooperate or support federal criminal activity you become a party to it and are without excuse much like the Nazi soldiers who obeyed the criminal laws of Hitler. You will be held personally accountable for your actions either in this life or the one to come.

 

[Slizzard]

I know what your point is. I read your post and replied to it. My point which you failed to comprehend, was that YOUR point is trivial at best. They never even tried that hard to stop 215. Because it didn't matter. 215 had the implications of a future world of legalized pot, not soon, but 10-20 years down the road and with its passing anyone with a clue could see that. Especially after the Feds stopped trying to stop 215 right after it passed, and just went after the people, legal under state law or not. They haven't been trying to stop 215 for a long time. They are just using Federal law to trump state law. What it did for the Feds was open the door for them to spend more money battling pot in California and other states that followed suit. Regardless of state law. It put the once black market on a new, much more visible and easily accesible and trackable level for the Feds.

They lose some, and win many. And ultimately they always come out ahead. So yes, I do say their efforts were beneficial. To them. The Government has been reaping the benefits of the War on Drugs for almost 100 years. The "War on 215" if you will, for 15 years. How many years will the War on California wage before it ends? We all know much like the Wars in the middle east, there never will be a victory in these Wars. Why? Because the government has agendas and GAINS from these "wars", and never ending wars get them what they want/need.

They will either find a way to make our votes invalid, or they will come full force. If it does pass, it needs to spread like a wildfire. It can't be gradual, like MMJ. It needs to blow up across the country, instantly, to work. Otherwise we are just going to be in the same situation CA has been in since 215. Legal citizens going down for crimes that aren't crimes under State Law.

I hope I didn't use too many big words. I can send you a link to a copy of The War on Drugs for Dummies if you'd like. Full legalization of pot and hemp is the biggest threat to Government profits in history. They are not going to let it slip by them without a fight. I'm just trying to get people to brace for the real fight, which a lot of people would rather blindly ignore as even a remote possibility, than keep in mind for whats may come. Whats about to go down in November is nothing.

LMAO, apparently i touched a nerve when i pointed out that you didn't understand the word "useless" Hahaha. And thank you for your concern but in case you forgot, it wasn't me with a problem understanding big words. It was you with the problem understanding a simple word. Anyway, Trivial or not, my point was made and my point was obviously clear and valid to the rest here who comprehend simple grammar. Sorry that everyone except you seemed to understand it. That simple word "useless" threw you for a loop huh. Before posting replies arguing with someone who knows what they are talking about, you should probably look up the meaning of simple words before arguing about them, and arguing about what someone else's point is in their post. And yes, of course the government benefits money-wise. That was not the discussion. That is obvious information that most on this site should know. Did the government's efforts to stop Prop 215 succeed was the discussion. And No, they did not. Therefore, it did nothing beneficial to the cause (aka ending Prop 215, which, once again, due to their "useless" efforts, whether it was their FULL effort or not, did NOT happen) Thanks. :]
~(Useless: being or having no beneficial use) <---In case you forgot.

What we need is an immediate chain reaction from other states. It can't be a slow trickle like after 215. It needs to be fast and hard to work.

I completely agree with you on this statement.

 

[MedicalNeed]

The US and Canadian Governments are both "Corporations".

KK, now you know it is "Business".

And Then??...

 

[RaysDad]

Fuck the Pigs and the DA RD

 

[Odin]

LMAO, apparently i touched a nerve when i pointed out that you didn't understand the word "useless" Hahaha. And thank you for your concern but in case you forgot, it wasn't me with a problem understanding big words. It was you with the problem understanding a simple word. Anyway, Trivial or not, my point was made and my point was obviously clear and valid to the rest here who comprehend simple grammar. Sorry that everyone except you seemed to understand it. That simple word "useless" threw you for a loop huh. Before posting replies arguing with someone who knows what they are talking about, you should probably look up the meaning of simple words before arguing about them, and arguing about what someone else's point is in their post. And yes, of course the government benefits money-wise. That was not the discussion. That is obvious information that most on this site should know. Did the government's efforts to stop Prop 215 succeed was the discussion. And No, they did not. Therefore, it did nothing beneficial to the cause (aka ending Prop 215, which, once again, due to their "useless" efforts, whether it was their FULL effort or not, did NOT happen) Thanks. :]
~(Useless: being or having no beneficial use) <---In case you forgot.


I completely agree with you on this statement.

What I have learned in my years of debating people on issues all across the board is that if they don't have anything to offer or they are not willing to research and/or listen to other opinions to further dispute or refute their point, they have only insult to offer.

You proved twice, you have nothing to offer to further this debate. All you can focus on is attempting to insult my intelligence in lieu of a complete lack of substance on your end . At least we agree on one thing even though that key point was the "thesis" of my last few posts if you will. Trying so hard to prove me wrong even though you agree.... hmmm.

 

[Slizzard]

What I have learned in my years of debating people on issues all across the board is that if they don't have anything to offer or they are not willing to research and/or listen to other opinions to further dispute or refute their point, they have only insult to offer.

You proved twice, you have nothing to offer to further this debate. All you can focus on is attempting to insult my intelligence in lieu of a complete lack of substance on your end . At least we agree on one thing even though that key point was the "thesis" of my last few posts if you will. Trying so hard to prove me wrong even though you agree.... hmmm.

Hmm.. really quite a simple explanation. and you should actually read my posts and try to UNDERSTAND them instead of trying SO hard to argue with me about what MY point is in my post. Still here you are trying to argue with me, about what anymore, i have no idea. The only argument that i had with you was whether or not the point in my post was the "uselessness" of the government's attempt to stop 215. Whether it was their full effort or not, it was in fact, useless in stopping 215. This was my original point in my post and made perfect sense to everyone else except you. Maybe if more than one person aside from you had said something then i would have questioned whether or not i was correct. I get my information from researching about this stuff on the web and reading. No one else seemed to have a problem with my post, you just looked like you wanted to argue with my post for no reason. Aside from all this, YOU should probably not try to tell anyone anymore what THEIR point in THEIR post is. But I'm sure that you will be posting back to this to argue some more.
Go smoke a J and Relax friend. You seem to need it. I'm here just trying to post and talk to other ppl. I don't need someone arguing with my post about what MY point was. If you have a legit problem with a fact that i have wrong, that is one thing. But arguing about what my point in my post was? Come on, Seriously.

 

[DXM89]

people. Put aside all ego and pride, smoke some weed, be happy and forgiving of each other. :focus: