Mars-Hydro LED Grow Light Discussion

[tonydavis]

Wow!

alpaja, i am sorry you had poor results with your grow, and won't dispute that the reflector lights may have been the problem as i don't have one, i use the mars ii 900, and i agree with you that you shouldn't have to ship the light back to china although i don't believe that mars hydro has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Just a defect guarantee.

I will however dispute your claim that the reflector cones are a faulty design and prevent the light from mixing. If you understand the physics of light transmission, the only way for the light not to mix is if each led was actually a laser. A laser beam is the only form of light that travels in a straight line.

Light from any source leaves in all directions not blocked by an opaque surface and travels in waves, this is where the term "wave length" originates, the distance between the crests (or troughs) of the waves. The shorter the wave length, the higher the energy and for our interest in growing plants, the greater the penetration. This is why the suns uv rays cause sun burn, higher energy light.

Now for the reflector lights. The cones are reflective so light leaving from the side of the led is blocked and redirected downward much the same as the cone behind the bulb in a flash light directs the light where you point it. This is referred to as focusing the beam. If you were to remove the cone and just hold up the bulb it would be difficult to see very far as the light is emitted equally in all directions. Put the cone back on and you can see where you are going for quite a distance.

The shape of the cone determines the beam angle (shape of the light leaving the cone) even then, the light will only hold the shape of the cone for a certain distance before diffusing and spreading out even wider.

If you want to know how far away from the light 2 individual leds start to interfere with one another (mix), lay a straight edge along the near faces of the light cone. Where they cross is where they "start" to mix. The farther out, the more the mix.

The main point being is that unless the leds in your light are lasers, its impossible for them not to mix. You may not like the light, or the results you had with it and you may have gotten some poor leds in your light giving poor output, but its not the design of the reflectors in the light.

Sorry for the long winded science lesson, but i hate to see any product design being claimed faulty with inaccurate information as the basis for the claim.

I also hope that i explained this in a way that those without a back ground in physics and engineering can easily understand.

Cheers all and happy growing

 

[Dennise]

That was awesome Celt.......

 

[Robert Celt]

Hey Dennise and Thanks

I usually try to avoid disputes of this kind but when I see someone using misinformation to validate their claims its different. I defend no company regardless of how much I may like their product, unless there is a valid scientific reason to dispute a customer's claims. Then I feel its my duty to step up and present the truth

 

[Mars Hydro]

NP arellanobrian, I just speak the truth, lol

thank you Sara it means alot coming from you!!

 

[Mars Hydro]

Hi santb, most of the warehouse are upgrated to 5w ones, if you are in USA or EU, you will definitely get the 5w ones We are upgrating our website, soon we will change all the descriptions together with the website next month.

Sorry I just noticed.. Is the current 3-panel Reflector light 144x3w or 144x5w? On ebay and on the Mars site; both seem to say 5w, but are called 144x3w. Or vice versa....
Or are new 3 panel Reflector lights going to be 144x5w?
Sorry but 144x5w equals 720w.... I'm thinking typos but just wanna make sure..

 

[Mars Hydro]

Thank you DarkSidoMike.

yes, the reflector series is upgrading from 3W chips to 5W chips .... some warehouses still have the 3W version, and others have the new 5W version .... you better ask to them before buying, to be sure on what you will get

the 5W version will be more expensive in futur, but the price is the same for both at the moment .... so, if you can get the 5W version, this is a deal

the 5W version seem to be very more interesting than 3W version .... even if Sara said they are similar in coverage and power output.

for my understanding .... each 48X3 can cover 40cmX40 ..... and 48X5 can cover 50cmX50cm each (full flowering) .... this is similar and very different at the same time

Ya, mentioned a few times, but no big deal to ask it again, long thread, hard to read them all at a time,

Cool thanks for that! Thought I'd read that somewhere here but could not find it anywhere!! Almost 1000 pages. Thanks again..

That is one thing we haven't notice, haha, guess you help us find another advantage.

for my understanding .... each 48X3 can cover 40cmX40 ..... and 48X5 can cover 50cmX50cm each (full flowering) .... this is similar and very different at the same time

5w chips will be better for any plants,

I like the 3w cos maybe you can put them closer to save space?
Otherwise the 5w might handle extra plant or 2 cos of stronger light..? Better for scrog maybe?

yep, maybe little more plants and little more coverage for 5W .... but little on each side mean more than little at the end ;-) 80X80 and 100X100 is really not the same area

Haha, decisions decision, the price is all very favorable at the moment,

Yes, I understand. I think the old models still look good; 300w for very cheap! 2 of those would def. do 4 plants.....
Hard decision!

that is sooo true.

SOG or ScrOG are better for all the lights lol ..... light penetration or not, this is clearly the best setting to have big yield. suppose to be good if you lack penetration, but this is simply better for all the settings

 

[Mars Hydro]

If you haven't seen already, check out Light Addict... His grow style is awesome. Search Flux or Light Addict here on 420....

wow, really like it ..... looked at the pics very fast and i can say wow!

will look deeply to see how to do that ...... tyvm for sharing!

There are many great grow journals here on 420, and sharing is caring, lol, I also learn a lot from here,

No probs..., Yes very inspiring! Heavy defol leaving only tops.. He grows and weaves the branches back into the plant.
The possibilities are incredible with this plant. Easier to grow than some people believe! Lots of cool stuff to try!

 

[Dennise]

Morning Sara... Hope you have an easy Saturday.....

 

[Mars Hydro]

Hi Happyjoy, your plants looks nice to me, especial it is the first time you use LEDs for growing, I admit sometimes, the buds will grow better than the sides ones, as the middle will get more light than the sides.

hey there everyone.
i need some advice on my grow.
im using the reflector 96x3. growing 3 strains. maui waui,durban poison, and cbd medi haze, side by side in a scrog.
the reflector LED was about 12" above the plants,(i moved it today up to around 14" now to get more spread....) and the strain in the middle (maui waui), which incidently is in the center of the lights so probably is getting more light than the others, its flowers are much larger, fatter, and fuller than the other two strains which are on either side of it.


even the strains growing on the two sides of the maui waui, are pretty much directly under the light. theyre just sticking out about 1 to 2 inches from the sides of the light.

i figured that the middle strain is flowering so much nicer because of the genetics, but today i read into the genetics, and actually the two strains on the sides (durban poison, and medi haze), are supposed to be better yielding than the middle strain (maui waui). also i notied, that those two strain on the sides, have some buds that stretch into the middle, and in the middle theyre growing just as nice as the center strains.

so i can only imagine the difference would be because theyre not in the center of the light????
well check out my sig to see more photos and details. i would be happy for any input:

heres some pics of the canopy. theres one pic of it all together, and then one closer up of the right, and closer up of the left.

 

[ganjazz]

Highhh Sarah

4th week into bloom(mars2 700, reflector 300)

 

[Dennise]

....

 

[Mars Hydro]

Hi Alpaja, I am sorry you don't get good experience from our lights

The thing you seem to fail to mention you get the prism effect when you shine sunlight THROUGH a prism which separates the lights. Unless you do so the reflection created by sun light is one color and not multicolored. You can believe the photos if use choose, and attempt to blame things like operator error, that does not change the fact that if someone has a similar experience to mine, they still must return the lights to china which cost almost as much as the lights themselves.

Although your 'bud porn' looks nice and all, considering my personal experience and the fact that the pictures you provide clearly show your plants under lights other than the reflector series, you will just have to pardon my skepticism. Your pictures do not address any of the other issues that I mentioned, like the fact that if someone decided to return them, they would be required to send them to china which cost almost as much as the lights do making return cost prohibitive.

Thank you MiGrow

There is so many factors that it would be hard to tell the same clones off the same plant if you even have the dirt a lil different in both pots they could end up being different like dense and fluffy..The plant in the middle might just be working better with your nutrients or condition than the others..You prob just have the middle plant in its best growing environment.And the other plants might not do so well with the same conditions..If this makes any since. Or maybe the other two are the phenos that dont produce as much as they are known for.

 

[Mars Hydro]

We ususally sell our lights to USA and EU and AU countries, from where we have our warehouse, we are also working on the repair centres around the world. But to some place like Middle East, it is really difficult to give better customer service. Hope you can understand, The best we can do, is to help you with your growing with our lights as much as we can, if the light has problem. we will figure out the possible way to help you solve it. But that will not like how it works in USA for sure. The situation is different.

With the reflector series that I have/had (won't be using them), the inter-nodal spacing was far more than anything I have seen, even as compared to T-5 lighting.

I really want to sell them for 50% of retail + shipping. There is nothing preventing you from contacting me privately, if you are truly interested.

Although your 'bud porn' looks nice and all, considering my personal experience and the fact that the pictures you provide clearly show your plants under lights other than the reflector series, you will just have to pardon my skepticism. Your pictures do not address any of the other issues that I mentioned, like the fact that if someone decided to return them, they would be required to send them to china which cost almost as much as the lights do making return cost prohibitive.

I agree on that but I dont think it would be fair for them to lose out on money either unless they have a insurance that would cover losses like that.then I agree again lol

 

[Mars Hydro]

Thanks randy, agreed, every growers can grow different, and also other things like seeds, or set up also have influence too

Happyjoy When you read about a strain remember each seed is different and each grower has different styles so it is just information entertainment especially if it is by a seed vendor. What grows is what reality really is when you find a plant that fits your expectation take clones then they will be what you expect and want.
Buying seeds or clones unless you know the source and it's good is a $10 lottery ticket some win most lose but when you find a winner develop it to your style and enjoy.
I also think that we without realizing it pick the healthier plant as the center of our gardens at least that's how it seems just enjoy the ride and learn from it just don't over think it.

Each series has different design and purpose. For old models, they are using not sooo good material like Mars II series, just for those who cannot afford LEDs, reflector series are for those who like the reflector designs, and mars II are for those really like the bigger draw power
As to the new series, we are aiming to use more qualified material, and will be more expensive.
Every company need to develop their products if they want to survive, The technology is growing, so am I, but for those ppl who do not have much money, the old series will still be good options.

If it is better, why aren't your newer models more similarly constructed???

Sorry I did not post those for you and yes I have both reflector and Mars 2 and used only reflectors before this grow and if you look at others posts you will see a large number of healthy plants with only reflectors even large grows with only reflectors. As for refraction it happens all around us everyday light is made from several colors and when bent off a reflective surface will separate into its primary colors when the angle is right.
When you return something it is because it is faulty not that the outcome which has several other influences is not as expected, if even then they will take it back the return postage is on the buyer and going into your purchase you knew they were in China and there were no wholesalers or retailers here. Everyone that has bought a light should have read the FAQ section on the web site for returns where it clearly states open items must be shipped to China at buyers expense.
By the way in what manner did I infer the posting of the pictures had anything too do with your issues? There is no tag or comment on that post that is directed to you in any way just the posting of pictures for everyone.

 

[Dennise]

Alpaja... I'm not going to read back to what ever you are gripping about but you are more than welcome to check my journal and see what the reflectors can and do grow for me... My very first light was a 96x3w reflector and I have many others now but they are all documented in my current journal.... Heck I got 3.2 oz off a PE auto under a 48x3w reflector so these lights do most certainly do their job..

 

[Mars Hydro]

You are right randy, reflector design can make the light spectrum mixed better and no more lumen output wasted. Our sun series and Cree lights also set five chips in one hole, which will mix the light spectrum even better,

Sun series = reflector, Cree series = reflector Yep they are all reflectors

 

[Mars Hydro]

Looking great Celt Thanks for sharing,

Morning friends to the west and afternoon to those of you to the east, thought I would share some pictures of the Bomb Girls taken this morning. They are into their 34th day of flower under a Mars II 900.\

THC #2 at the back

Had to take them out to do some bondage and repositioning so a few pics under CFL light to show true color.

THC #1

Cherry Bomb

All back in their home

Love that, seems really soon, you will get your harvest, lol

 

[Mars Hydro]

Hi Alpaja, can I ask which country you live?

Other than being immediately after my post, you did not infer anything. I cannot attest to any other grower or plants but my own. From my experience plants grown under these lights are long and spindly with a much greater inter-nodal spacing than under other lights. Everyone knows light is made of several colors and that lights shined through a prism or a similar lens separates it into different colors, However in the case of these lights they are never mixed to begin with given the fact that they are so spaced and isolated by the reflectors. Under most other lighting, shadows are single colored and not multi colored as the reflections created by these lights.

If they were shipped from China, you may have a more valid point. However they are not, and I would gladly pay the shipping costs to return them to where they were shipped from which was Secaucus NJ. I was even willing to exchange them for a Mars II 700 which retails for less than what I paid for the lights that I have $289.99 for the 700 vs the $464.03 that I paid, which was denied. I am not trying to fight or argue with anyone. If you are happy, be happy. I am sharing my experience so others will be aware, and can take my experience into consideration. If one had never used other lights, in the past, one might not be aware of the differences I have noticed, which would include the several other influences.

"2. If the item is opened and unused, can I return it to you?

If the light is opened but you did not use it, please re-pack well, and take pictures to show us that everything is in the same original condition as the one we shipped to you, and that there is no damage. You may return the light to our warehouse or our factory in China upon our confirmation. But you need to pay the shipping cost. We will then refund you the light cost when we get the returned light."

How would one know how they perform without using them??? If they were shipped from Secaucus NJ, it would seem they have warehouse located there.


Replacement

In the event that the new replacement part does not correct the problem, or there is a more complex problem, the light will need to be returned for a warranty replacement. As for the replacement, we will contact the shipping company to ship the defective product back, and after it has been received we will send out a new replacement unit to you. The defective unit must be returned in its original packaging and box. If any part is missing or damaged, the sender will be charged additional fees for those parts or blemishes.

I have the original unit, packaging and box with no missing or damaged parts, and there is no replacement part that will correct the problem. If they work for you great. If they don't, one is pretty stuck.

except with the Sun Series, you have the colors mixed and reflected together and not isolated and separate as they are with the Reflector series.

thnks for the input randy.
however my main question is if people here think that the reason the buds in the middle, are larger is because theyre under the center of the light. or if it doesnt make a difference here,since pretty much everythign is under the light except for a tinhy bit on tsides.

btw the seeds were bought from good breeders... and i think i notice differences of the buds in the center, even from the other plants.
maybe its just the way i set it up, with the tallest budding parts in the center, because i didnt want the scrog to spread out too much.
in other words,when i set up the scrog, i put each pot, with its tallest side turned towards the center, so that i wouldnt have the plants stretching out away from under the light around the edges....

any other input would be appreciated also, if its good that i raised the light to about 14", or if its not really nescesary in this case since it looks like everything is under light pretty much except for around 2 inches on one side, and 1inch on the other side (at 12" height)

 

[Mars Hydro]

Alpaja, I am sorry you had poor results with your grow, and won't dispute that the reflector lights may have been the problem as I don't have one, I use the Mars II 900, and I agree with you that you shouldn't have to ship the light back to China although I don't believe that Mars Hydro has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Just a defect guarantee.

I will however dispute your claim that the reflector cones are a faulty design and prevent the light from mixing. If you understand the physics of light transmission, the only way for the light NOT to mix is if each LED was actually a laser. A laser beam is the ONLY form of light that travels in a straight line.

Light from any source leaves in all directions not blocked by an opaque surface and travels in waves, this is where the term "wave length" originates, the distance between the crests (or troughs) of the waves. The shorter the wave length, the higher the energy and for our interest in growing plants, the greater the penetration. This is why the suns UV rays cause sun burn, higher energy light.

Now for the reflector lights. The cones are reflective so light leaving from the side of the LED is blocked and redirected downward much the same as the cone behind the bulb in a flash light directs the light where you point it. This is referred to as focusing the beam. If you were to remove the cone and just hold up the bulb it would be difficult to see very far as the light is emitted equally in all directions. Put the cone back on and you can see where you are going for quite a distance.

The shape of the cone determines the beam angle (shape of the light leaving the cone) Even then, the light will only hold the shape of the cone for a certain distance before diffusing and spreading out even wider.

If you want to know how far away from the light 2 individual LEDs start to interfere with one another (mix), lay a straight edge along the near faces of the light cone. Where they cross is where they "start" to mix. The farther out, the more the mix.

The main point being is that unless the LEDs in your light are lasers, its impossible for them not to mix. You may not like the light, or the results you had with it and you may have gotten some poor LEDs in your light giving poor output, but its not the design of the reflectors in the light.

Sorry for the long winded science lesson, but I hate to see any product design being claimed faulty with inaccurate information as the basis for the claim.

I also hope that I explained this in a way that those without a back ground in physics and engineering can easily understand.

Cheers all and happy growing

 

[Mars Hydro]

Mornign tonydavis

Wow!

Morning Dennise,

That was awesome Celt.......

Thanks Celt, that means a lot

Hey Dennise and Thanks

I usually try to avoid disputes of this kind but when I see someone using misinformation to validate their claims its different. I defend no company regardless of how much I may like their product, unless there is a valid scientific reason to dispute a customer's claims. Then I feel its my duty to step up and present the truth