dontinhale
420 Member
I hope it is ok to ask a question here in the lounge? There is a lot of discussion about finding a good phenotype and a good mother plant. Ok what am I looking for? I have some seedlings and to me they all look alike?
The FAQ section is probably the best spot to post this. I always flower and harvest before deciding which one I like best. Cut clones before going into flowering mode and save the labelled clones of each plant till you decide which one you like. I know no way of choosing based on the appearance of seedlings.
I am a clone farmer ... but I don't know how much help I can be. I'll to try.
A "good" phenotype ... for me? Is a plant that is in demand. My patients and my farmers and my collective want it. Supply v demand. THEN: I look for plants are relatively easy to clone. Some plants (the CBD strains come to mind) are not easy to clone. If I'm getting a success rate of under 50% - I can't afford to keep her. My average success rate is about 85% ... I know, everybody can do better than that ... but I'm making 1000 babies a week - I don't need to spend twice as much and spend half as much time just to get to 100%. Plus, only the strong survive. THEN: I look for plants that are NOT prima-donna's. They are not finicky, or need a lot of special attention.
I had a UK Cheese once ... what a pain in the ass. She attracted EVERY bug for a mile in all directions, and gave it all up to them. No resistance to pesticides, so they almost killed her. Needed lots of magnesium which made her hard to clone. Screw that, not gunna do her again. I had a farmer/client that only grew cheese. Made it thru one order and told her that she'd have to choose another genetic, or pay a lot more for the extra time and pain ... I don't clone for her any more. LoL.
How do you pick the best of what you have? That's even harder. That is where the art or the experience comes into it. Seedlings are too soon, grow them a bit. Look for the girl that has the most, thickest, whitest, fuzziest roots. Look for the girl that is growing the fastest, is the greenest. You want the alpha female. You want the girl that is yelling "I am female ... hear me ROAR."
I have, many, many times grown a plant to teen size with every intent of making her a mom ... and discovered that for one or more of the above reasons she just doesn't make the cut. I sell her to be flowered, or gift to a friend, or ... cut it up and put it in the recycle bin. Harsh -- but, that's life. Trick is to remember the ones that don't work, and the ones that do.
Which ones work? For me?
Almost any of the Kush's (OG, Platinum, Cherry). Blue Dream (my favorite), AK-47. White Widow. OG13. Notice that these are all 'old school' genetics. Not diluted, crossed, hybrid crap. The real deal.
Most of your questions are answered with experience.
~ Auggie ~
I think you got lots of good info. I agree wholeheartedly with the above stuff. I just wanted to add a little about how I do it slightly differently...not because what I do is better just there are some reasons why for a small grower I do it differently.
First off phenotype is one thing but like Auggie said it really isn't about that. It is about finding the best plant from what you have. You can throw down 10 different strains and and get 6 females and in the end choose to only clone one because it was simply the strongest easiest to grow and or the most potent. There is no harm is selecting from multiple strains instead of phenos from one. As long as you put down a decent number of decent seeds you will get something good.
That leads into the "art of the decision" as Auggie pointed out. If you are a meticulous small time grower who can deal with problems more rapidly and easily and have more patients for intolerant strains then you can possibly go down a path for a more difficult strain that has better potency or yield. If you are trying to run an organized grow with hundreds of plants you will have totally different considerations and Auggie pointed out most of that.
For me I am just personal these days and I can provide the TLC as I do just a few grows a year now. So I will take not less than 5 seeds but typically not more than 10 (the place I get from out of Holland sells 10 packs for around $30 for good stuff like WW so that is cheap). They do not need to be all the same strain and you don't need to be hunting pheno types...you can grow all sorts. Just with 5 or more you have a good selection. At 10 you have a great selection because you probably have at least 4 good females and probably more.
Then take notes and watch for plants that don't grow "easily". Clone everything and at a little more than a month you can start blooming the originals. Then you will find out the males and can toss those clones. Finish off the seed round and let them all age at their own rate. Harvest them when each is ready and make notes. One may take a week longer but may be worth it. Let them all age to proper ripeness individually and take notes about that.
Then while those are curing take the clones and inter space them all throughout your grow space and do a second grow to make sure nothing you did like with ventilation or lighting messed up the data from the seed grow. Take notes on which clones actually cloned and rebounded better. For that to be accurate you will want to start with at least 4 clones from each plant. That way you can insure that you get at least one real good clone that you didn't mess up and the results will be meaningful. Also take your time at this particular cloning step this one time because this data matters. Take all the clones with the same requirements whatever they are...so like they should all be about the same height and same number of nodes and fan leafs or very close so as to make this an actual comparison. Use the second grow to confirm which plants have the traits you want. And you should be narrowed down to 2 or 3 mothers just from the growing aspects. Still clone everything again but this time you can be a bit lazy.
Then test the cured product from the seed grow.
Then you have good data for grow times, ease of cloning, grow stability and robustness of plant. And add to that the data about which one has the best potency or flavor or whatever and you can make a solid decision.
It sounds like a bunch of work but really is not. All you are doing running a normal grow and cloning a decent sample of plants... then running a normal grow and doing it a second time to confirm... and then clones from that round become the mother(s). And in the end you end up with a pile of weed and a very good mother or 3.
And if you are hunting Phenos it is all the same just you want to be certain first you know the strain is what you want. I have read too many times about people cloning something they end up not really liking for way too many grows because they have it. Better to try a bunch.
It is more of a waste of money to keep cloning and growing something sub par then to throw down a hand full of seed to make the best decision.
First off phenotype is one thing but like Auggie said it really isn't about that. It is about finding the best plant from what you have. You can throw down 10 different strains and and get 6 females and in the end choose to only clone one because it was simply the strongest easiest to grow and or the most potent. There is no harm is selecting from multiple strains instead of phenos from one. As long as you put down a decent number of decent seeds you will get something good.
That leads into the "art of the decision" as Auggie pointed out. If you are a meticulous small time grower who can deal with problems more rapidly and easily and have more patients for intolerant strains then you can possibly go down a path for a more difficult strain that has better potency or yield. If you are trying to run an organized grow with hundreds of plants you will have totally different considerations and Auggie pointed out most of that.
For me I am just personal these days and I can provide the TLC as I do just a few grows a year now. So I will take not less than 5 seeds but typically not more than 10 (the place I get from out of Holland sells 10 packs for around $30 for good stuff like WW so that is cheap). They do not need to be all the same strain and you don't need to be hunting pheno types...you can grow all sorts. Just with 5 or more you have a good selection. At 10 you have a great selection because you probably have at least 4 good females and probably more.
Then take notes and watch for plants that don't grow "easily". Clone everything and at a little more than a month you can start blooming the originals. Then you will find out the males and can toss those clones. Finish off the seed round and let them all age at their own rate. Harvest them when each is ready and make notes. One may take a week longer but may be worth it. Let them all age to proper ripeness individually and take notes about that.
Then while those are curing take the clones and inter space them all throughout your grow space and do a second grow to make sure nothing you did like with ventilation or lighting messed up the data from the seed grow. Take notes on which clones actually cloned and rebounded better. For that to be accurate you will want to start with at least 4 clones from each plant. That way you can insure that you get at least one real good clone that you didn't mess up and the results will be meaningful. Also take your time at this particular cloning step this one time because this data matters. Take all the clones with the same requirements whatever they are...so like they should all be about the same height and same number of nodes and fan leafs or very close so as to make this an actual comparison. Use the second grow to confirm which plants have the traits you want. And you should be narrowed down to 2 or 3 mothers just from the growing aspects. Still clone everything again but this time you can be a bit lazy.
Then test the cured product from the seed grow.
Then you have good data for grow times, ease of cloning, grow stability and robustness of plant. And add to that the data about which one has the best potency or flavor or whatever and you can make a solid decision.
It sounds like a bunch of work but really is not. All you are doing running a normal grow and cloning a decent sample of plants... then running a normal grow and doing it a second time to confirm... and then clones from that round become the mother(s). And in the end you end up with a pile of weed and a very good mother or 3.
And if you are hunting Phenos it is all the same just you want to be certain first you know the strain is what you want. I have read too many times about people cloning something they end up not really liking for way too many grows because they have it. Better to try a bunch.
It is more of a waste of money to keep cloning and growing something sub par then to throw down a hand full of seed to make the best decision.
Agree with all that's said above.
Often it really IS all about perspective. My reasons for having/keeping a mom is quite different from yours - and that will effect your decisions, and it should. Doesn't make you 'wrong' and me 'right'. Just makes our goals different. When asking a question or listening to an "expert" always consider their perspective.
Keep in mind that there is more than one way to do what we do. Also, keep an OPEN mind - that is so important. I listen to everything I can from people who know more than me, and that is a LOT of people. I may not adopt their methods, but I always listen. And sometimes I try their methods and keep them, or discard them ... but, always listen. Just because something works well for me, doesn't mean they'll work for you. We all live in different climates, have different water supplies, different soil. There really isn't any "right" answer.
Once I get a mother that I can work with; she is invaluable. I can not put a price on my moms. It takes me many months to develop a good mother. I may go thru a dozen plants to find the one I want to wed. Kiss a lot of frogs, so to speak.
About two months ago I got a thrip/mite infection. I went from "Do we have a problem here?" to "Oh fuck!" in less than 24 hours. A week later the mom room looked like a flame thrower had gone thru it. I cried. I thought I was ruined. And it was MY fault (usually is). I immediately took large cuts from the sick plants, got the bugs off and cloned them thinking that I could save the genetic if the original mom died. Well, we lived thru it, didn't lose any of my girls and they are happy and healthy as I write.
~ Auggie ~
PS. I used someones advice on ridding moms of bugs. I tented each one with a large garbage bag, and filled the bag with 100% CO2 for two hours. Did that twice a day for a week, bugs gone; and reduced trauma by avoiding the use of toxic poisons on an already stressed girl. (Often times the cure is worse than the disease). It worked very well, and it's the first time I've used that method. That's not a permanent solution however. A week later once the moms were healthy enough to withstand a dose of poison, I sprayed them with Avid. (Very toxic, but it is the nuclear option.) Done.
I learn something new EVERY DAY. Keeps me alive.
Often it really IS all about perspective. My reasons for having/keeping a mom is quite different from yours - and that will effect your decisions, and it should. Doesn't make you 'wrong' and me 'right'. Just makes our goals different. When asking a question or listening to an "expert" always consider their perspective.
Keep in mind that there is more than one way to do what we do. Also, keep an OPEN mind - that is so important. I listen to everything I can from people who know more than me, and that is a LOT of people. I may not adopt their methods, but I always listen. And sometimes I try their methods and keep them, or discard them ... but, always listen. Just because something works well for me, doesn't mean they'll work for you. We all live in different climates, have different water supplies, different soil. There really isn't any "right" answer.
Once I get a mother that I can work with; she is invaluable. I can not put a price on my moms. It takes me many months to develop a good mother. I may go thru a dozen plants to find the one I want to wed. Kiss a lot of frogs, so to speak.
About two months ago I got a thrip/mite infection. I went from "Do we have a problem here?" to "Oh fuck!" in less than 24 hours. A week later the mom room looked like a flame thrower had gone thru it. I cried. I thought I was ruined. And it was MY fault (usually is). I immediately took large cuts from the sick plants, got the bugs off and cloned them thinking that I could save the genetic if the original mom died. Well, we lived thru it, didn't lose any of my girls and they are happy and healthy as I write.
~ Auggie ~
PS. I used someones advice on ridding moms of bugs. I tented each one with a large garbage bag, and filled the bag with 100% CO2 for two hours. Did that twice a day for a week, bugs gone; and reduced trauma by avoiding the use of toxic poisons on an already stressed girl. (Often times the cure is worse than the disease). It worked very well, and it's the first time I've used that method. That's not a permanent solution however. A week later once the moms were healthy enough to withstand a dose of poison, I sprayed them with Avid. (Very toxic, but it is the nuclear option.) Done.
I learn something new EVERY DAY. Keeps me alive.
