N and P and K: Oh my

[bobrown14]

Why's that?
When you take a 'job', you accept that there are people who outrank you and will make decisions that you are expected to execute.
The person paying for the band, names the tune ... right?
My bosses want my input, and often adopt my recommendations -- but, not always.
And, while I disagree, it is their opinion (and that's the one that counts) that organic methods are too time consuming and uneven in results and require more of an 'artistic' touch than a 'scientific' one.
So ... no organics ... though I do use Mico and Sea Kelp.

Your answer makes me speechless.

And tossing 25#s of fertilizer in the trash is polluting the environment, just observing.

On the organic thing you wrote:

"that organic methods are too time consuming and uneven in results and require more of an 'artistic' touch than a 'scientific' one."

That ^^^^ is simply not true.

I grow organic - I have an automated watering system. The most work I do is trimming.

I check on the plants in flower for about 5 minutes a day. I've gone away for 3+ weeks several times on vacation came back to harvest.

I use science: horticultural practices, chemistry physics and biology to make my choices on how and what I'm going to do. I dont use art to grow plants. I am creative tho. Outside we do use some creativity when planting flowers in our flower beds.

Growing organically gives me time to do other stuff that I also like beside farming and gardening.

Your bosses are ignorant. Again just an observation not judgement.

 

[Auggie]

Your bosses are ignorant. Again just an observation not judgement.

Whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant.
It's a job; I am paid to execute.

 

[bobrown14]

When butting heads with boss I've usually found getting a different job worked. But that's just my experience. I understand your issues.

 

[Auggie]

When butting heads with boss I've usually found getting a different job worked. But that's just my experience. I understand your issues.

I love my job, and my boss isn't bad ... much.
He's a capitalist.
Doesn't know chit about growing.
I am often able to color outside the lines because he really is not a grower.
He likes to chop in 60 days. Yea, 60 days! LoL.
I learned how to 'juggle the books' to show a later starting date and 'steal' two or three weeks. He is amazed that I'm getting that kind of weight in only two months flower time.
"How do you do that?"
I just grin and tell him that I'm the plant whisperer.
LoL.






But, he listens to my opinion, often takes my advice ... and he really does pay me very well.
When it's all said and done though; I like my girls better than I like people.

 

[bluter]

when i first started hydro in the early 80's you could only buy un-mixed dry nutes. the hydro shops used to divvy up the big bags in to smaller amounts and sell them to their customers. there weren't many branded nutes, and a lot of what we bought was just house brands they mixed themselves.

 

[bobrown14]

I love my job, and my boss isn't bad ... much.
He's a capitalist.
Doesn't know chit about growing.
I am often able to color outside the lines because he really is not a grower.
He likes to chop in 60 days. Yea, 60 days! LoL.
I learned how to 'juggle the books' to show a later starting date and 'steal' two or three weeks. He is amazed that I'm getting that kind of weight in only two months flower time.
"How do you do that?"
I just grin and tell him that I'm the plant whisperer.
LoL.






But, he listens to my opinion, often takes my advice ... and he really does pay me very well.
When it's all said and done though; I like my girls better than I like people.

Well the organic thing bothers me a little bit since someone is paying someone and not knowing what he's doing he should take advice. Just sayin.

You want to harvest under 60 days?

Pro Tip:

Add 1 cup of malted barley ground fine to your soil mix. I know it's organic but it will share 15-20% off your harvest date and get you frostier nugs.

 

[Auggie]

Add 1 cup of malted barley ground fine to your soil mix. I know it's organic but it will share 15-20% off your harvest date and get you frostier nugs.

Really?
Never heard that before.

He's not 'against' organic.
He very cognizant of time investment, and the cost of time.

To give you an example of his thought processes using your suggestion above: If I make that suggestion to him he will immediately picture replanting a room, which normally takes three people a whole 8 hour day to complete.
By adding the task of mixing something into the medium during that process ... how much time will it add? Will it now make it a three man, two day job? Or add one person to the job?
And, will the investment of time be worth the results?

I've seen him do a one time, side by side test to see ...

I'm going to research your suggestion above; and see if I can do a test.
Thanks for the tip.

 

[013]

No sense replanting anything - just add it to your soil mix before or while filling pots for the next run.... obviously he meant to say shave 15-20% off harvest date and get frostier nugs.

 

[Auggie]

No sense replanting anything - just add it to your soil mix before or while filling pots for the next run

Yup, that's what I'm thinking. Also, the few minutes of 'research' that I've done suggests that it can be used as a top dressing.

he meant to say shave 15-20% off harvest date and get frostier nugs.

Right, got that.

 

[Auggie]

I'm going to research your suggestion above; and see if I can do a test.
Thanks for the tip.

Hey BO.
I found an old post of yours as follows:

The take-away with malted barley are the enzymes and they act as catalysts in the soil to help microbes break soil matter down into nutrients the plant can use.

It could work great with your system and how you grow but I can not say for sure as I have no experience. Could work great tho... never know unless you try it. Sounds like your teas are working so it would make sense that barley may work too.

Malted Barley for me is a soil amendment similar to Fulvic Acid. It's not a food for the plant but it is for the microbes that help the plants grow. If that makes any sense. lol

Remember, I am not organic.
We use salts and *gasp* chemicals from those evil corporations.

Tho I do use (without bosses knowledge or permission) one of Kelp4Less super concoctions that include Fulmic and sea weed.
Since the benefits are in feeding the beasties in the soil ... and I prolly don't have any beasties in the soil what will it do for my girls?
Also, I don't even use soil. Cocco only.

 

[Redcup]

It doesn‘t seem the original question has been fully answered, let me add a few things to clarify. Its a good question.

Elemental Phosphorous P and Potassium K do not exist under normal conditions because the are too reactive and are not stable (K will react with the oxygen in the air and explode). So they are available as stable compounds, for growing we use stable soluble compounds called salts. You cant buy a bag of elemental K but you can buy KCl Potassium Chloride (called Muriate of potassium), for example. There are many salts, table salt is sodium chloride NaCl.

One of the salts that are used is called Mono Potassium Phosphate or MKP. MKP has an NPK analysis of 0-52-34. Look familiar? Thats whats in MOAB. You can buy ag grade MKP for something like five bucks a pound, go to amazon. You can buy it by the pound, no need for a fifty pound bag lol. (btw if .you use Jacks, you probably know they ship that in 25 pound bags and in 2.2 pound bags. they used to do 5 pound buckets but seem to have discontinued it).

Many bloom boosters contain other supplements such as amino acids, b vitamin, kelp, and humics. I will leave those for a different topic and keep this about the inorganics. Other bloom busters commonly seen are PK 13/14 and similar. These just adjust the ratio of P by adding Triple Super Phosphate TSP that has an NPK of 0-54-0.

These salts are made with mined minerals and are not harmful or toxic (not more toxic than table salt) but should be handled properly and disposed of properly. (Dont let fertilzers run off into the waterway, whether the fertilizer is organic or synthetic etc)

i wont dwell on whether overloading PK in bloom is helpful, but do keep in mind these have a high concentration and will raise your fertilizer EC considerably so use sparingly.
Hope this helps

 

[bobrown14]

Really?
Never heard that before.

He's not 'against' organic.
He very cognizant of time investment, and the cost of time.

To give you an example of his thought processes using your suggestion above: If I make that suggestion to him he will immediately picture replanting a room, which normally takes three people a whole 8 hour day to complete.
By adding the task of mixing something into the medium during that process ... how much time will it add? Will it now make it a three man, two day job? Or add one person to the job?
And, will the investment of time be worth the results?

I've seen him do a one time, side by side test to see ...

I'm going to research your suggestion above; and see if I can do a test.
Thanks for the tip.

No need for research - it works. But research away.... let me know if you need any info on it.

Not going to add any time to your schedule other than grinding up several cups of malted barley. Add it to the hole at transplant and mix with some EWC and your mycos.

This is for soil run so if you're soil-less then dont bother.

 

[Redcup]

Oh and another related thing, some bloom boosters or hardeners will contain synthetic PGR s. These are for ornamental use only, not for food or cannabis. If you see the word “ornamental“ on some sketchy bloom booster be very wary. They are not permitted and are considered dangerous. They used to be common but have been banned, however they still show up because they are used in landscaping. I saw just such a product the other day, (i wont repeat the name), so be informed.

 

[bobrown14]

Too easy to just use the natural organic forms I'm guessing.