New to RDWC: Couple questions

[Todd gunter]

I just built a RDWC that I designed myself and want to know if I’ll be good. It’s a 12 site 5 gallon bucket system a total of about 50 gallons of water. I’m using a 1585 GPH water pump, I have a 2 in return and a 1/2 in going out to all the buckets with 180 degree sprayers in each bucket and I’m not using air stones cause they are terrible. Was thinking about adding another 1585 GPH pump to split between more pressure for my sprayers and added aeration in the Rez. What do you guys think

 

[013]

Nice setup, that looks great but ....... I‘m soil and don’t grow hydro and from what I understand one pump can impact your grow negativity from heat generated by the pump. Adding a second pump might push it to the point that you need a dedicated chiller. However you would be well served to get @bluter or @MochaBud to weigh in.

 

[Todd gunter]

Thanks, it was a lot of work but a blast as well. I have a chiller that I’m going to use, for keeping temps down I just want to make sure my DO levels are good without having to use air stones.

 

[Jack420]

@multiVortex he is the man

 

[Todd gunter]

@multiVortex he is the man

 

[Todd gunter]

Right on, hopefully he will help me out. Thanks fellas. ✌

 

[Jack420]

He def knows his stuff I’ll shoot him a tex so he can back to u

 

[Todd gunter]

He def knows his stuff I’ll shoot him a tex so he can back to u

Awesome, thanks man much appreciated!!

 

[013]

thanks jack420... you rock

 

[OldMedUser]

High Todd

Sprayers can be bad too if they plug up in a pail so better have good filtration on your feed. Mineral salts can build up and plug them too so hope you have easy access to check them. I would keep an airstone in your main rez as it would be a pain to have one in each pail and would make sure you have plenty of O2 in your water.

I've done about 50 tubs in DWC using Rubbermaid tubs since '01 but never done RDWC.

Nice set-up!

 

[Todd gunter]

High Todd

Sprayers can be bad too if they plug up in a pail so better have good filtration on your feed. Mineral salts can build up and plug them too so hope you have easy access to check them. I would keep an airstone in your main rez as it would be a pain to have one in each pail and would make sure you have plenty of O2 in your water.

I've done about 50 tubs in DWC using Rubbermaid tubs since '01 but never done RDWC.

Nice set-up!

I might have to use one and yeah I was thinking that’s the only place I would put one. This past 2 months have been absolutely brutal for and root rot. I’ve done everything you can possibly think of and the shit keeps coming back and that’s why I had to make the switch to RDWC, I ran just DWC for the past 2 years and it always kicks my ass for the first month or Two and then just disappears but with as many buckets as I have going lately it was too much. I was literally having to 24 buckets every other day or so.

 

[Todd gunter]

I might have to use one and yeah I was thinking that’s the only place I would put one. This past 2 months have been absolutely brutal for and root rot. I’ve done everything you can possibly think of and the shit keeps coming back and that’s why I had to make the switch to RDWC, I ran just DWC for the past 2 years and it always kicks my ass for the first month or Two and then just disappears but with as many buckets as I have going lately it was too much. I was literally having to 24 buckets every other day or so. And Thanks for the compliment on my setup, it was a lot of late nights but a blast as well. I just hope I get to reap the benefits. Have a wonderful day sir! ✌

 

[multiVortex]

Hola. Seems I've been asked to pick up the courtesy phone. So I guess it's a gimme Ham on 5 and hold the mayo situation.

First things first. It's a nice looking system. I can tell you put a lot into it and have mostly done your homework. There are a few caveats though, but be thankful you're going to find them now and not in the middle of a run. That would be bad all around.


Second, I hope you used bulkheads and not uniseals.

Third, 2", especially going right into an elbow, is going to be bad juju when them roots hit it. And they will. Clog city. Even worse, it's going out in the middle of the buckets bottom, and into that elbow. That will bust a grow when the roots hit, and they for sure will with it being directly down their growing path.

A single, inline, 1200gph pump should do it. However, your feed lines are only 1/2". No bueno. Need 3/4" if you want to push that much, if not 1". Bigger pipe, less resistance, fluid dynamics and all that fun crapola.


Overall, you'll want about 100gph to each bucket. 12x100 being 1200. Then you have to account for head height on the pump. The base for this is made up by subtracting the water level the pump is in from the overall max height being pumped to. So if the water level is 1ft, max height of a line is 2ft, then you have a 1ft head height to start. Adding to that are fittings, bends, and even pipe length. So, your 1500gph pump will probably be enough, maybe a tick over. No sweat there.

Here is a few pics of my old layout:

- 4-site, 5 bucket (13 gal, ez stor buckets with current culture lids and 5.5" net pots)
- 400gph pump w/venturi
- Danner Supreme air pump (550cu.in/min), 4 disc type stones
- eheim air pump plus a single stone disc for the res
- micro pump in the res (like 3w, super tiny) for general mixing and breaking the flow back from the buckets up a tick
- 3/4" supply line in pvc (except 3/4" hose from pump to inside to save a little head height)
- 3" return line
- 10gal, auto top off



See how the buckets are all connected? Nothing leaves and goes into a tee/bend. (Small exception from the inner bucket to the res, but I've fixed that recently.)

Sprayers are going to end up clogged. Salt, time, no bueno.

You can see that mine just dump right in the bucket. Stirs up with water pretty good, but I've also changed that to a spray bar style input. Nothing fancy. Just capped a pipe and put some small holes across the bottom.

Push connectors, they're going to leak. Uniseals, leak.

Getting in and cleaning that return line maze is going to suck. Try using tee's for elbows, and crosses for tee's. That leaves you one side open at that joint. Then you cap it with a threaded cap.

If you look in the 5th pic from top above (with the ez stor lid covering the front left plant site), you can see where I did just that in 3 spots in that picture.

Main line comes in from the pump into the center of the buckets and into a cross. Two sides go front to back, last side has the cap.

Each of the front/back lines come into... a cross. Again, capped on the 4th side. (input, 2 output, 1 cap)

Using a tee for an elbow is the same principle. Input on the single side, plug one end and output on the other.


Now you're wondering, "why?"

Good question. The reason is for cleaning. You would be surprised at how much gunk can build up in these things. Even running sterile, although it's significantly less than running bennies. So now you can take off the cap and have a straight shot to clean that section of line.


The 3" returns help keep the flow in sync, but also aren't going to get clogged even if the roots decide to wander.

Some won't be bothered and will stay in place, others may wander a bit to the outside. Either way, the pipe is big enough. With your output on the bottom of the bucket, that's the natural path for roots to go and they absolutely will. They'll hit the turn right under the floor, and now you're clogged and overflowing. It won't just back up its own bucket, but anything pointed at it. Now you've got a huge mess and may bust your grow.

12 buckets like that will be a slight challenge to plumb, but shouldn't be terrible. There are a few things you could do, but none of them include keeping the buckets you have now.


Effectively you have 3 rows with 4 buckets each. Going by your first pic, referencing the grid as 1a/b/c/d on the top right, row 2 in the middle, 3 at the bottom and left; letter running left to right back to the res.

First, I would get 8gal ez stor buckets. They'll be more than those 5gal, but you gotta remember that those 5 gal probably won't hold 3gal when running.

Here's a couple options:

3" pipe from the bottom of 1A to 1B, 1B to 1C, and 1C to 1D. Same for rows 2 and 3. Now for the D buckets...

Variance 1:
- Put the outlet where you want the water level, and run an overflow on the D buckets. A 2" should be fine here, as the roots should be down in the water. There would be a backup just in case though, so no worries there.

This one lets you set the water height in the buckets by where you place the drain. With an overflow, the water level will always be constant in the buckets.

Variance 2:
- 3" pipe from side of 3D to connect to 2D, and 2D connect to res. 1D, being other side of res, just connects straight back to res.

This is similar, but won't control the water level. Honestly, water level fluctuations can be bad if not careful. So an auto top off on your res would almost be a must if going this route.


Pump: You may want to run (2) 700gph (or 800gph) instead of just one big one. Reason being is that bigger pump, more watts. More watts, more heat. Lower gph pumps will use less, and two combined may be less than just one big one.

You could even run one small 400gph pump PER ROW!

Simple to do, really. Have a 1" pipe coming out of the res and into a cross. The other 3 sides of the cross add a 1"-> 1/2" reducer bushing, put pump between buckets B and C, plumb the pump in, and split off to the A/B buckets and C/D buckets.

On the A buckets, instead of an elbow into the bucket at the end of the line, use a tee. On the 3rd side, put a ball valve. Now you have 3 ball valves. Connect them together, basically like a capital E. Leave the valves shut primarily.

However, if one of the pumps goes out, you can open the valves as needed to let the other 2 pumps take over. It will reduce flow by about 40%, but that's way better than no flow for 1/3 of your grow.


It's good that you came for input, especially before busting a grow, but the bad news is still more left to do.

 

[multiVortex]

Oh, to add to that, I mentioned "old" setup.

I'm finishing up some modifications, but the overall design is the same. Just upgrading parts, etc. Upgrading to the current culture mods (13gal), which does come at a $10 premium to the ez stor buckets, but also incorporates a drain well for draining the system.

I'm also switching this up to an overflow off the bucket connected to the res, and adding in the spray bars.

Not really applicable, and the overall flow is the same. 3" pipe on the return side (the overflow on my control bucket is actually (2) 2" bulkheads instead of a single 3"), 3/4" supply line, etc. So it's a change in parts for the most part, not a change in design (overflow excluded.)


That gives me a constant water level in the buckets, I'll adjust the volume in the res with the top off. It also would allow for my res to not influence the water level in the buckets, and let me have a larger/smaller/whatever res where its water level is independent from the water level in the main buckets. This is a big deal for me, and could be for you too if you wanted to put your res on the floor and maybe get a bigger one.

 

[Todd gunter]

Okay great sounds like I’m screwed at the moment since I have put my ladies in already. I will definitely go ahead with everything you have given me. On the hole in the bottom bucket deal, have you ever tried putting a pee trap type configuration where from the hole you basically have a pipe that does basically a 180 to the corner of my bucket. Seems to me that would work, that’s what I did to keep them from heading straight down the hole. Is there anything I can do to make this work? Or do I just need to start over. T’s for elbow is awesome and thanks for all the information I will get on it.

 

[Todd gunter]

Okay great sounds like I’m screwed at the moment since I have put my ladies in already. I will definitely go ahead with everything you have given me. On the hole in the bottom bucket deal, have you ever tried putting a pee trap type configuration where from the hole you basically have a pipe that does basically a 180 to the corner of my bucket. Seems to me that would work, that’s what I did to keep them from heading straight down the hole. Is there anything I can do to make this work? Or do I just need to start over. T’s for elbow is awesome and thanks for all the information I will get on it.

Also what’s your schedule for cycling the water pump?

 

[OldMedUser]

I might have to use one and yeah I was thinking that’s the only place I would put one. This past 2 months have been absolutely brutal for and root rot. I’ve done everything you can possibly think of and the shit keeps coming back and that’s why I had to make the switch to RDWC, I ran just DWC for the past 2 years and it always kicks my ass for the first month or Two and then just disappears but with as many buckets as I have going lately it was too much. I was literally having to 24 buckets every other day or so.

I used 35% food grade peroxide to keep root rot at bay for years then built a DIY chiller out of an old water cooler that was gifted to me. Small fountain pump in the tub with 3/8" tubing running up to the cooler tank with about 15' coiled up inside then returning back to the tub. Automotive antifreeze in the cooler tank or it would freeze and constant running of the fountain pump as it froze up when on a timer. I put the timer on the cooler so it ran 15min each hour or the nutes got too cold but after a couple days playing around with the settings it stayed between 65 - 68 F and I never used peroxide again.

You're going to want some insulation around those pails too I think. That silver bubble wrap stuff works pretty good for that.

I went with R-20 and some baling wire. Function over fashion any day!

Looks like @multiVortex has a butt load of good info for you up there. multi you should copy all that to a text file because you just know you're gonna need to post that again for the next guy. lol Very nice of you.

 

[Todd gunter]

Oh, to add to that, I mentioned "old" setup.

I'm finishing up some modifications, but the overall design is the same. Just upgrading parts, etc. Upgrading to the current culture mods (13gal), which does come at a $10 premium to the ez stor buckets, but also incorporates a drain well for draining the system.

I'm also switching this up to an overflow off the bucket connected to the res, and adding in the spray bars.

Not really applicable, and the overall flow is the same. 3" pipe on the return side (the overflow on my control bucket is actually (2) 2" bulkheads instead of a single 3"), 3/4" supply line, etc. So it's a change in parts for the most part, not a change in design (overflow excluded.)


That gives me a constant water level in the buckets, I'll adjust the volume in the res with the top off. It also would allow for my res to not influence the water level in the buckets, and let me have a larger/smaller/whatever res where its water level is independent from the water level in the main buckets. This is a big deal for me, and could be for you too if you wanted to put your res on the floor and maybe get a bigger one.

Once again thanks and I am going to get it done. You definitely know your shit and I can’t wait to get with it, I’m going to run it the way it is until I get all the fixes purchased and what not cause they are babies which gives me a little bit of time. I might just get it done this weekend. I’ll update you on it.

 

[multiVortex]

I'll be the first one to admit that I hate spending just because. There are places where you can get less expensive and you’re fine. There are places where the money is an investment though. Environment is one, and system/lighting are part of that.

A bulkhead is more than a uniseal, but won’t cause as many issues for example.

Trying 2” pipe vice 3”, or other things. You get the idea. I say investment because you're investing in the quality, usability, and reliability of critical systems.

Before you purchase and build anything, check back and ask first.



Also that p-trap ain’t shit to roots. They'll follow the flow as much as possible. Roots can be the nemesis to rdwc. Gotta plan accordingly to mitigate their influence on the fluid dynamics as much as possible.


Would what you have set now work? In general, probably. For how long is the question, and those roots stand a good chance to clog up at least 1 drain fairly quick. It is not worth the risk, and as painful as it sounds you will be happier in the long run as you sleep better at night.

 

[Todd gunter]

Right on, I’m going to switch it all up. Just fucking blows. Is what it is,now I know.