Newbie Closet Grow, Cold Climate - Ideas, Setup and Gear Q's

Kingsnake235

Kingsnake235

New Member
Hello!

I've recently decided to start up my own personal grow and would really appreciate any direct advice I could get in regards to my situation; I've been lurking the board for about a week and have found/read/bookmarked a lot of great info, but there are a few things (or combinations of things) that I have not found addressed in quite the same way as I am facing them. I will attempt to add as much detail as I can, so I apologize if this becomes a bit long winded - statements will be numbered for easy reference and summarized at the end for anyone who wants to skip there.

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer!

Grow Space

1. Firstly, I live on the west coast of BC, Canada, where it is currently.. 0*C at midnight on the dot, so outside temps will get below freezing (possibly as low as -5*C) while my grow is active. It will be anywhere from 0-10*C during the day. Humidity is currently 70-80% outside with exceptions above and below.

1b. I can run the internal heating to about 16*C and put additional heat in the room the closet is located, if that would be suitable. Also considering sealing all my large windows with poly.. interior is a 12' ceiling vaulted loft, so the "room" with the closet has an open ceiling, shared with the whole space. Quite a space to keep warm for the winter with baseboards.

Any comments from people who have dealt with this type of weather would be great!


2. The space will be about a 2x3x5.5 (22"x36"x67.5") portion of closet.

2b. I can make it a bit wider if necessary to get the most out of the lights, and possibly squeeze 2"s of depth behind the folding doors, but no higher unfortunately as there is a permanent shelf in the closet.


3. Due to the current climate in my area I am considering pressure fitting 1/2" or 3/4" rigid foam insulation to partition the closet and line the walls instead of OSB or MDF. Id rather have to pump more heat out than run an additional heater. The door will be a removable foam panel, and all external corners will be taped.

4.(3b.) All internal surfaces will be lined with mylar, and the floor will get something waterproof underneath that as well, probably stapled to the foam at the bottom. maybe plastic around the whole outside for extra insulation?

Lighting

5. I plan to run a 600w MH/HPS on a 600w dimmer ballast with a plain reflector, starting the veg at 50% and flipping up to 75% possibly finishing the flower with the full 100% 600w HPS

5b. I am planning this because I know I will move to a larger space in the future, and I would rather not buy gear twice if I can help it - after some reading, it seems like running the lights this way will work fine, but I am not sure of the specifics when it comes to lumens and the coverage I can get from the various settings on the ballast? I can get a ballast at my local hydroshop for $140CAD and the bulbs run about $40CAD each, so I'm ok with that and not having to wait for shipping, I can grab them anytime.

5c. Will the 600w HID bulbs produce enough heat to raise the grow room to desirable temps without additional heating? if so, will it still be the case at 50% or 75% and will it be too much heat for the rigid foam?
if not, would a few CFL's help? I've considered putting 3 or 4 around the floor pointing up or around the sides of the plants as well. If too much heat, would something like a cool tube be enough to reduce it or is bringing in more cool air enough?

Ventilation

6. With such a small cubic footprint I figure I can get away with a fairly small ventilation setup (possible lighting ventilation excluded) but I have not chosen one yet, suggestions welcome! will basic computer fans work? if so, pics for wiring and easily obtainable power supply suggestions would be great. I will definitely have a larger passive intake on the front bottom corner

6b. Likely won't need a carbon filter here but will make one if needed, I am not too worried about ventilation as BC is pretty relaxed with MJ and I will only have a few plants. Its about 36 cubic feet so a 10-12 CFM fan from the box into the closet itself or routed out under the door should be fine I think? Smell inside is better than outside in my situation. If a carbon filter is needed, does it take away from the suction of the fan? and if so, how much extra power does the fan need?

Plants

7. I plan to grow an organic SCroG in soil with the possibility of including clay balls or maybe lava rock on top to maximize root growth - suggestions?


8. I plan to purchase locally 5-10 feminized hash plant seeds, supplied by CropKing, as I can buy these just down the road and I am a fan of the strain; they will grow short with a short flower period (40-45 days) and produce the resin and flavour I am after, along with a strong Indica smoke.

If anyone has experience with this strain or supplier in particular, I would love to hear how it went or check out your journal if available!


9. Depending how many I buy I will germinate all of them and plant as many as I can optimally fit (4-6?8?), leaving the option of culling the herd if necessary. Suggestions in that regard would be highly appreciated.

One thing I have not determined is where/how to start the seeds and what size containers to finish in or transplant to (if at all). I am thinking of starting in rock wool under CFL and then moving either to 2 gallon pots or 3 gallon if i can find them - not sure if multiple plants in a larger rubbermaid kind of thing is appropriate for soil? possible airflow issues with a single large tub in the small space?

also not sure how many pots will fit in that space economically and if it might be better to grow 4 at a time since I will be attempting to SCroG topped plants anyways?

Nutrients

10. Another big consideration I have yet to tackle is nutrients and PH, definitely looking to stay organic or at least as close as possible with organic derived nutrients - I have a local grow shop nearby that is stocked with a lot of different things but I don't want to get sucked into anything thats not right - also a few other run of the mill garden shops and nurseries I can utilize - I prioritize quality over quantity at this time, with focus being on flavour/smell and smoke/burn quality as well as resin production for making hash. With that in mind, should I go through the effort of checking and balancing the PH of my local water? its pretty good quality, but I'm not sure of its levels yet.

Summary

I am going to be growing in a small space with a cold and humid outdoor climate, I need to know if the rigid foam will help the cold issue and if a 600w HID at 50-75% on a dimmer ballast will not only be ok to grow with in the size space (6sqft@50w/sqft=300w=600w*50%), but produce enough heat with the lights on to not have to supply an additional source of heat, as well as how to remedy the drop in temperature with the lights off (lights will run over night with darkness mid-day).

If its too much heat, a link to a good DIY cool tube would be great and is there any risk to the insulation in that small of a space?

I aim to grow as organically as possible, and would love input on nutrients in that regard, as well as any suggestions for the soil/mix; I am thinking to pick up some organic soil and mix with worm castings and something to aerate, maybe perlite (though its not organic) or crushed lava rock? not sure of other things that could be used for this.

Also the ideal number of plants for this size of space? I'm leaning more towards germinating 5 seeds and hoping they all pop/root then just seeing how it goes and culling to 4 if i have to, cause it seems a bit small to put more than that in with a scrog.. not sure since I've seen quite a few small spaces packed with pots that I was surprised at.



well, its late, so I hope I didn't miss anything; if I did, please feel free to let me know!
i will be here and there so don't be offended if I don't reply right away, I will be back - hoping to get up and running in the next 2-3 weeks.

Thanks!

:Namaste:
 
Welcome Kingsnake. This is a great hobby you are in for a great journey and you are doing it right by doing your homework first... I wish I had.

You might want to consider a cool tube, you can get them cheap on amazon. HPS puts out ALOT of heat and running an open hood you might find you will need an AC unit when it gets warmer out. You can always leave the fan off or put it on a timer to control heat.

As far as the seeds go, personally if I spend the extra $$ on fems I will pop what I want and if something doesn't germ or dies off early I will have something to replace it with.

Nutes...this is a very broad subject. If you want to go organics or mostly organics you can get a starter box of bottled organics.
With a little research you could find a good recipe for solid ferts/ compost teas that would save time and money. This is the way I have been feeding my girls and I will never use any other way (unless I do a hydro run)
If you check out my journal you could see my recipe, it has been working great, I have given them nothing but H2O for their entire lives.

Good luck, don't be afraid to experiment and remember just about everybody has something go wrong, it's how you handle it that will determine your outcome.
 
Thanks for the reply! I have definitely considered a cool tube, as thats a great way to reduce the heat, but if I could I'd like to save a bit of $ making my own - having a hard time finding the glass around my area tho, so we will see about that!

leaving the fan off for a while is something i hadn't considered to get more heat; any idea how that would effect the co2 levels?

re: germination, thats a good call, maybe i will just germ the 4 and if something goes wrong i have one left.. or maybe 1 left to grow a mother for cloning if the strain works well?

for nutes, I was looking at the advanced nutrients line up, possibly with bud blood? not sure though, i think i'd like to stick to straight water with nutrient rich soil, like you say. Ill definitely take a look at your journals.

thanks for the info!
 
I got a 600w cool tube for less than 200. It is worth the extra couple of bux. The extraction fan can run full time to replace CO2 I was saying you could put the light fan on a timer or a thermometer to accommodate the temps.

Advanced nutes have proven themselves but they are pretty much the opposite of organics. I have used them and if you wish to PM I will give you my opinion.
 
yeah for sure! i did some more looking around and found a deal online that will save me a few bucks.. I'm sure its not the best quality ballast out there, but certainly it will serve the purpose for long enough.. the brand is DigiBrite. I looked for some time, and found other comparable deals, some with better quality, but ALL except this one were sold out of 600w, putting the 1000w a bit out of my price range this time around. I was looking for only things within Canada for shipping costs/customs issues - this one includes free shipping and discreet packaging anyways.

600W Dimmable Electronic Ballast HPS MH Grow Bulb Socket Reflector Tube Hood | eBay

i was going to just order the ballast and tube and buy the bulbs in person locally, but it won't let me complete the order without selecting a bulb, so for cost efficiency i selected both, and will see how they go. all in, ill get the 6" air tube with ratchet hangers, a 600w ballast, with both MH and HPS bulbs for $252CAD instead of $220 for just a ballast (lightenerg ACE) and 2 bulbs (unknown brands) from my local shop. :thumb:

re: advanced nutes, i kind of figured as much, i noticed they have a few products that are "organically derived" but i think i will just go with a nice soil mix with straight water.. on that note, do you change or increase any of the nutrients when you flip, or do you just leave the soil the same for the whole grow period?

I'm going to have to find a pH test kit to test the water here, i've read that 7 is an ok number for tap water, so hoping its in the mark; but will do whats necessary.
 
hi kingsnake that was a bargain with the lighting wasn't it and i know people who have used digibrite before and they say they were fine.
now in regards to the ph soil feeds should be around 6.8 and coco/hydro around 5.8 just remember if your mixing nutes and testing the ph level let it mix properly or you wont get an accurate reading and as long as its in a big enough pot/container you can leave in it the same soil during veg/flowering
 
hello newbee! thanks for the reply

yeah, i think i found a pretty reasonable deal. i looked around quite a lot, and as i said, this was the only one I could find with free shipping within canada that still had 600w in stock, so I'm hopeful. should arrive in 2-10 days! Im glad to hear from a few sources that the digibrite is a passable setup.

re: pH, thats good info thanks! I will definitely be growing in organic soil, probably 3 gallon pots. Im gonna run out today and see what I can find locally in terms of organic soil, I'd like to leave most of the nutrients to the soil rather than adding liquid nutes during watering, so i will attempt to just balance the plain water and let the soil do the rest of the feeding.

i was reading about enhancing the root structure of my plants and read that starting from seed in a smaller container (like a solo cup) is advantageous because it allows for the roots to develop a ball earlier, rather than forcing them to grow to the edge of a larger container before circling it.. any comments/ideas in that regard for an organic soil scrog from seed?

thanks for your input!
 
hi kingsnake235,
first off im not an expert but i do a lot of research on every detail of everything i do so ive picked up a good starting block of general knowledge, as far as soil its a great starting point its fairly lenient with pH levels and can hold a good it of moisture but.... watch for root rot over watering can seriously harm your little ones just as much as not watering them feed till you get a good bit of run off anywhere between 10 and 20% is a good amount then leave alone till its dry down to about your second knuckle down your index finger roots love wet and dry conditions and it also makes the roots look for water as the soil drys out but hey its a weed itll survive while you learn everyone starts somewhere, as for the pot size i got clones that were in rockwool and put them into 11" pots in a mix of soil and pearlite and left them under the lights for 3 weeks now (just flipping 12/12 on Monday morning) and here is what my roots look like as i put them into 17" square smart pots two days ago

DSC_072112.JPG


the roots grow at a set rate (set by conditions, tep, humidity and so on) so as long as you look after them its a personal choice bud.
 
great, yeah i likewise read a lot, theres just so much info to absorb! haha

i went by the garden shop today to get some ideas of price/mixes, they luckily have a good assortment of products as well as a hydroponic section, so i think i'll go with this organic soil -

Original SEA SOIL?

and mixing with bone and blood meal and possibly lava rock for aeration, then feeding with a liquid kelp nutrient..
i was thinking maybe pumice or diatomite instead of perlite, but both of these things retain water, so lava rock may be a better idea to avoid root rot as you say. I haven't found a supplier for lava rock here yet tho I'm sure i will.

do you know the volume of your 17" pots? I'm also going to be using square pots that I have in storage, but I haven't got around to measuring them yet, fairly certain they are around 3 gallon volume.

thanks for the info again; looks like you have a good root system going on! do you have an active grow journal?
 
hey kingsnake, i'm growing cropking hash plants right now. bought 5 fem seeds sprouted 3 and saved 2 for a later date. all sprouted within 5 days and have been very easy to grow. i'm 5 weeks into flower with a couple more to go. don't count on 45 days. my plants aren't huge because of my lights but the buds are still super sticky and stinky. can't wait to try it.
 
hey! sounds like the seeds are decent quality then; 6/7 weeks isn't too bad either.

can i ask, how long did you veg, and what height are your plants now? also, what type of lighting are you using and how strong is the smell during flower?

sticky and stinky sounds good haha thanks for the info!
 
hi, the seeds are decent quality and i got freebies with my order. i even started them in cubes and the 3 i started all germinated. then i went 2 1/2 months to flip. would have done it sooner but had no room in my flowering space. they are about 3 1/3 to 4 ft tall. i'm using t8 flourescents but am switching to led for my next grow. if my plants look good with my lights yours should be banging! the smell is not super strong if you don't touch them but they are supercoated in resin. 1 slight touch and you smell like delicious hash. i can't wait to grow them under better lights. can't wait to see how you do.
IMG_57596.JPG
IMG_57554.JPG
IMG_57549.JPG
IMG_57536.JPG
IMG_57525.JPG
 
oh wow, thanks for sharing your pictures! those look great :)

i recently determined that I can remove this pesky shelf in my closet without damaging it, so i also just increased my grow area from a 2x3x5 section to a full 2x5x8 closet space - what kind of space are you taking up with the 3x3-4' ladies? I was thinking I may supplement with a bit of flouros if i need some more coverage, but with a scrog i think the top light should be ok..

hoping to get away with some shorter plants at maybe 3-4 weeks veg with 6-8 weeks flower depending how she goes, but i'll push them a bit in the end if need be, like you say, not to expect 45 days.

now I'm really looking forward to getting set up! haha thanks for sharing!
 
hey, thanks!

things are going well right now; just posted an update in my journal recently!

made the switch to a 4x4 tent a couple weeks ago, really liking it.
 

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