Opioid Tapering With Cannabis: A Regimen

[LadyAshwynn]

That .5 of the 1:1.... it's working for you for restful sleep?

Yes, yes it did. Along with a half of a Wally Drop I took earlier in the evening to help me manage the pain while at a gig my husband had. (I should've just taken the whole thing; half wasn't enough.)

The gig was my first test of going out and meeting new people while on this stuff. I have generalized anxiety disorder, which the oil seems to have helped; and social anxiety, which is going to need more work in the form of therapy on my part. On the whole, I had fun.

That first dose mistake wasn't yours to claim. The second misstep was an easy miss. Have you made yourself a chart and considered color-coding the bottles to the chart? I find visuals with color-coding to be both beautiful and functional. The brain picks up the color faster than the words.

Ding! What a great idea. Colored sharpies or highlighters will work for this. Thank you!

Be gentle with yourself. You're in unchartered territory. We all are, and we're gonna get through this hanging onto each other and laughing at every opportunity.

Humor is essential and I do my best to infuse it into my worldview even if my circumstances are dire. And this forum is something else as far as all things support-related. Just lurking and reading makes me feel happy and upbeat.

 

[LadyAshwynn]

Yesterday (7-29) was the day I was supposed to stop taking any oil and observe the cumulative effects of what I'd been doing, so that is what I did.) Anxious about not being able to sleep without resorting to Klonopin, I popped a Wally Drop at 4 PM and I took a quarter dropper of 1:1 about 30 minutes before crashing at 9 PM (I'm really a lightweight in all respects!)

This morning I experimented with taking a quarter dropper of 24:1 and a quarter of 1:1 at the same time. My mood is elevated from the CBD, but there's no real extra pain relief (I took my Norco and anti-inflammatory as usual.)

I'm placing an order this morning of 250mg 5:1 CBD:THC. I think that might be the ticket for me, even if we have to move up to 1000mg. I'm also going to order a couple more 1:1s because they're fantastic for sleeping; and I've going to try out vaping my doses instead of tincturing because I seem to have a tough time with handling the dropper and the tiny bottles (it's the trembling and the spatial problems I have.)

Hope everyone is doing well!

 

[Preston9mm]

Read this today and figured I would share...

5 Ways CBD Affects Your Brain That’ll Blow Your Mind

1) CBD Reduces Blood Flow
Recent research has found that CBD can cause a reduction in blood flow to particular regions of the brain, linked to anxiety. CBD was found to help reduce the overall anxiety scores of the study’s participants.
-
2) CBD Works to Manage Pain
We all know that THC has a positive effect on helping the pain, but so does CBD. CBD helps with pain by acting on the CB2 receptor. These receptors are responsible for controlling important cellular functions such as suppressing the inflammation response, which sends a direct message to your brain of pain. CBD blocks that signal to reduce the level of pain.
-
3) Reduces Oxidative Damage
Oxidation stress which contributes to brain damage seen in conditions such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease is a condition of imbalance or malfunction in the balance of reactive species and their generating mechanisms with antioxidants and antioxidant mechanisms. Studies have shown that CBD acts on the CB2 receptor to reduce oxidative damage. This means that CBD can help minimize this type of stress and allow the brain to function normally.
-
4) CBD lowers the Degree of Excitation of Brain Cells
When brain cells don’t function normally and begin to work rapidly through excessive stimulation, the damage is known as excitotoxicity. Over the past couple of years, CBD has become a popular form of medicine for those that suffer from epilepsy.
-
5) CBD has Significant Antipsychotic Properties
The antipsychotic effects of CBD are related to the way it has an impact on anandamide, called the "bliss molecule". In general, higher levels of anandamide have been connected to a decrease in psychotic symptoms. CBD is known to increase anandamide in the brain. This has led researchers to believe that CBD can assist with pain management and depression

 

[SweetSue]

Read this today and figured I would share...

5 Ways CBD Affects Your Brain That’ll Blow Your Mind

1) CBD Reduces Blood Flow
Recent research has found that CBD can cause a reduction in blood flow to particular regions of the brain, linked to anxiety. CBD was found to help reduce the overall anxiety scores of the study’s participants.
-
2) CBD Works to Manage Pain
We all know that THC has a positive effect on helping the pain, but so does CBD. CBD helps with pain by acting on the CB2 receptor. These receptors are responsible for controlling important cellular functions such as suppressing the inflammation response, which sends a direct message to your brain of pain. CBD blocks that signal to reduce the level of pain.
-
3) Reduces Oxidative Damage
Oxidation stress which contributes to brain damage seen in conditions such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease is a condition of imbalance or malfunction in the balance of reactive species and their generating mechanisms with antioxidants and antioxidant mechanisms. Studies have shown that CBD acts on the CB2 receptor to reduce oxidative damage. This means that CBD can help minimize this type of stress and allow the brain to function normally.
-
4) CBD lowers the Degree of Excitation of Brain Cells
When brain cells don’t function normally and begin to work rapidly through excessive stimulation, the damage is known as excitotoxicity. Over the past couple of years, CBD has become a popular form of medicine for those that suffer from epilepsy.
-
5) CBD has Significant Antipsychotic Properties
The antipsychotic effects of CBD are related to the way it has an impact on anandamide, called the "bliss molecule". In general, higher levels of anandamide have been connected to a decrease in psychotic symptoms. CBD is known to increase anandamide in the brain. This has led researchers to believe that CBD can assist with pain management and depression

“This has led researchers to believe that CBD can assist with pain management and depression.”

We know that for a fact. Lol!

 

[Preston9mm]

“This has led researchers to believe that CBD can assist with pain management and depression.”

We know that for a fact. Lol!

Oh yeah!

Walking/Talking proof right here!

 

[SweetSue]

Yesterday (7-29) was the day I was supposed to stop taking any oil and observe the cumulative effects of what I'd been doing, so that is what I did.) Anxious about not being able to sleep without resorting to Klonopin, I popped a Wally Drop at 4 PM and I took a quarter dropper of 1:1 about 30 minutes before crashing at 9 PM (I'm really a lightweight in all respects!)

This morning I experimented with taking a quarter dropper of 24:1 and a quarter of 1:1 at the same time. My mood is elevated from the CBD, but there's no real extra pain relief (I took my Norco and anti-inflammatory as usual.)

I'm placing an order this morning of 250mg 5:1 CBD:THC. I think that might be the ticket for me, even if we have to move up to 1000mg. I'm also going to order a couple more 1:1s because they're fantastic for sleeping; and I've going to try out vaping my doses instead of tincturing because I seem to have a tough time with handling the dropper and the tiny bottles (it's the trembling and the spatial problems I have.)

Hope everyone is doing well!

I’ll be interested in hearing how vaping handles symptoms over sublingual. You should get as immediate relief, it’s the hang time I’m most concerned with. A certain amount of sublingual ends up swallowed, making it as much edible as sublingual. It offers the best of both worlds if you learn to control the doses.

 

[Dirtdemon]

Hey guys, sorry been a busy bee lol.
I got my government regulated medicine yesterday. I will try some today and report the effects. Weekend was good for the most part. Had a bad case of poor me Sunday. I survived. It’s about 7 am here. I am going to go and talk to some connections see what I can find for work. Hope everyone is well

 

[Derbybud]

Best of luck on the job search.

 

[SweetSue]

Hey guys, sorry been a busy bee lol.
I got my government regulated medicine yesterday. I will try some today and report the effects. Weekend was good for the most part. Had a bad case of poor me Sunday. I survived. It’s about 7 am here. I am going to go and talk to some connections see what I can find for work. Hope everyone is well

I was just thinking yesterday that this thread has a rhythm that goes like this:

* A member shows up anxious and stressed, sick and tired of living a life of hell on opiates.
* We circle the wagons and help get the member on stable ground.
* Everyone hangs around to be as supportive as possible.
* Eventually the waters settle and a bit of “normal” ensues.
* Everyone breathes a sigh of contentment that another family member found the way back home.
* Reports get more infrequent and we smile again, anticipating that a small thing like joyful living became a big thing in a friend’s life.

@Dirtdemon, let the universe inspire you to the job meant to be you’re reentry. If you have the desire it suggests a solution right in front of you.

Have a wonderful day.

 

[LadyAshwynn]

I’ll be interested in hearing how vaping handles symptoms over sublingual. You should get as immediate relief, it’s the hang time I’m most concerned with. A certain amount of sublingual ends up swallowed, making it as much edible as sublingual. It offers the best of both worlds if you learn to control the doses.

So.. this is the plan and I did misunderstand how the vape was intended to work. I am not supposed to take my main CBD:THC doses via the vaping method. For that, I will continue to use the tincture (5:1 now). The vape will be something I can use on an as-needed basis. I'm getting a cart that is pure sativa to help with sleep and a cart that is a hybrid sativa/indica for daytime (hopefully, we'll see these work; and I don't know what strains these are.) Also, I still have these 50MG THC candies which I'm learning to dose myself correctly. All in all, I'm going to have a lot of THC. Maybe too much. I might offer to give all the candies to my husband's bandmate in exchange for a little bit of bud, or seeds.

All this stuff will arrive tomorrow or Friday and it'll be a month's supply instead of the little sample bottles I got the first time! As soon as I find my spot with the dosing I will start tapering off the Norco, then the Tramadol ER.

How's everyone else doing?

 

[Preston9mm]

Saw this today and found it pretty fitting...

 

[LadyAshwynn]

Saw this today and found it pretty fitting...

I love it! Saved to share.

 

[SweetSue]

So.. this is the plan and I did misunderstand how the vape was intended to work. I am not supposed to take my main CBD:THC doses via the vaping method. For that, I will continue to use the tincture (5:1 now). The vape will be something I can use on an as-needed basis. I'm getting a cart that is pure sativa to help with sleep and a cart that is a hybrid sativa/indica for daytime (hopefully, we'll see these work; and I don't know what strains these are.) Also, I still have these 50MG THC candies which I'm learning to dose myself correctly. All in all, I'm going to have a lot of THC. Maybe too much. I might offer to give all the candies to my husband's bandmate in exchange for a little bit of bud, or seeds.

All this stuff will arrive tomorrow or Friday and it'll be a month's supply instead of the little sample bottles I got the first time! As soon as I find my spot with the dosing I will start tapering off the Norco, then the Tramadol ER.

How's everyone else doing?

Wow! I’m impressed. When we started we felt somewhat like we were flailing in the dark. We’ve come a long way in a short time.

I’d think a pure indica would be better for sleep meds. They tend to be higher in THC as well.

 

[LadyAshwynn]

The hard work has begun, baby step by baby step. Following instructions, I'm now tapering off the Norco 5-325 at a rate of one-half pill every two to three days, depending on how I'm feeling. Today, .75 mL of 5:1 (CBD:THC) plus a couple of hits off the vape kept the pain reasonably controlled for a certain amount of time, but I'm going to need to go to a third dose to fill in those afternoon hours-- or switch to 1000mg instead of 250mg.

I went a little over the time past when I needed to take the next Norco dose and it was like flipping a pocket cattle prod.

As for the vape. The indica oil they sent me is LA Confidential, and the hybrid is Gorilla Glue. I love the LA Confidential (relaxing on it right now); but if I'd been given a choice about the hybrid I'd have picked something different. Next order I will get a sativa and see what they send.

 

[SweetSue]

Next order I will get a sativa and see what they send.

Do you not have the choice of what chemovar they send?

A fine point: change the story you’re telling from “The hard work” to something softer like “the focused work” or “the methodical process begins.” Something that makes it more play than work.

Sorry to hear the Norco come with a kick when you’re late. Set an alarm. My daughter has this problem with Effexor. It’ll be fun tapering off that one.

You’re doing well and helping to set guidelines for a greater population. How’s your attitude doing?

How happy are you?

 

[Canyon]

Greetings All,
I have been silent for a while. I have not had the time needed to keep up with the site.

This thread is one that I have been following. Congratulations on the progress everyone is making. It’s wonderful news.

My wife has been on the full range of prescription pain meds (Fentanyl, methadone, morphine, and lots of Percocet like products) for about 10 years. She had been tapering down for several years from six back surgeries, and a knee replacement with the aid of some capsules I had been making for her. About three and a half months ago and against the advice of her primary care physician, she decided to stop the last of the morphine that she had been taking.

I will skip the details of the withdrawal process. I will say that it was not as severe as we expected. However the symptoms lasted much longer than I expected.

The capsules I was making were not what most people are using. Basically, they were a diluted version of a high CBD shatter that was decarbed and a much larger amount of noncarbed high CBD shatter. So, the combined shatter was roughly 2% THC, 10% CBD, 20% THCA, and 50% CBDA. The remainder would be terpenes plus anything else. I diluted it in coconut oil and started with a 100 to 1 dilution and worked up to about 30 to 1in #00 capsules.

At about 5 or 6 weeks I switched her to the 30 to1 strength morning and night. What happened was that she was very fogy headed until noon or later. It took a while before either one of us realized that she was moderately stoned 24/7 and the large doses of the acids was causing some rather strong sedation. She dropped the morning dose for two nights and still had some effects so she stopped it entirely. That was about 4 weeks ago. She is doing rather well now [;>).

Has anyone had experience with non decarbed concentrates or raw juicing for withdrawal aid? My wife thinks it helped a lot with anxiety.

LadyAshwynn, be careful about late doses or tapering too fast. My wife and I wound up out of town without her meds when she was on about 8 times the dose of morphine sulfate that she finely stopped taking. She went about 36 hours past her last scheduled dose. She held it together for about 30 hours. When she finally got some medication I thought she would see improvement in 30 minutes or an hour. It was about 5 hours plus some white pills before she started to improve.

Pace yourself.

Best

 

[SweetSue]

@Canyon, missed your voice my friend.

Thank you for all that valuable information. Intriguing formulation. What prompted that ratio choice?

Some of us have such high tolerances it’s hard to imagine someone getting buzzed in a 30:1 concentration.

I’m so thankful to hear she’s doing well. Had a giggle at how easy it was to overlook the stoned effects.

Hey.... in case you haven’t heard, I’m moving to New Orleans to rent from Tead. I’ll be relocated by the end of Sept. Closer to you and the lovely wife. Someday I hope to get out to visit.

 

[LadyAshwynn]

Do you not have the choice of what chemovar they send?

I don't. I was given a choice of "sativa", "indica" and "hybrid". The oils are branded and from this company:
Products
So there is theoretically a not-so-bad selection, but the supplier didn't offer me one. They work with a great many out-of-state (to them) patients who might be trying cannabis for the very first time, and I am guessing that they've chosen these accordingly. If I had my choice from the hybrid list on that product page, I might want to try GSC first, I guess.

Sorry to hear the Norco come with a kick when you’re late. Set an alarm. My daughter has this problem with Effexor. It’ll be fun tapering off that one.

Oh lord, she's on Effexor? I was on that one for two or three years in the mid-00's so I sympathize. I was being metaphorical with the cattle prod imagery, but Effexor really does produce electric shock-like sensations if you miss a dose as I am sure your daughter is all too familiar!
However! Something to look forward to. As I recall, tapering off that one was not difficult with the support of my neurologist, who simply kept prescribing smaller and smaller doses from week to week. Effexor is one of those drugs that doesn't respond well to stopping cold turkey, but responsible tapering is fine.

My wife has been on the full range of prescription pain meds (Fentanyl, methadone, morphine, and lots of Percocet like products) for about 10 years. She had been tapering down for several years from six back surgeries, and a knee replacement with the aid of some capsules I had been making for her. About three and a half months ago and against the advice of her primary care physician, she decided to stop the last of the morphine that she had been taking.

Please give her a big hug for me.

LadyAshwynn, be careful about late doses or tapering too fast. My wife and I wound up out of town without her meds when she was on about 8 times the dose of morphine sulfate that she finely stopped taking. She went about 36 hours past her last scheduled dose. She held it together for about 30 hours. When she finally got some medication I thought she would see improvement in 30 minutes or an hour. It was about 5 hours plus some white pills before she started to improve.

Pace yourself.

This is a cautionary tale that I will take to heart. It also brought me to pause. I hate that your wife had to go through such pain. I do not know her, but I feel so much empathy for her. And super glad that she's doing well now!

My grandmother, who suffered from Crohn's disease before any of the modern treatments were available, was addicted to Paregoric because of her pain. There was no MMJ for her then and she wouldn't have tried it anyway because of the stigma. I'm so glad that times have changed for us all.

 

[SweetSue]

Oh lord, she's on Effexor? I was on that one for two or three years in the mid-00's so I sympathize. I was being metaphorical with the cattle prod imagery, but Effexor really does produce electric shock-like sensations if you miss a dose as I am sure your daughter is all too familiar!
However! Something to look forward to. As I recall, tapering off that one was not difficult with the support of my neurologist, who simply kept prescribing smaller and smaller doses from week to week. Effexor is one of those drugs that doesn't respond well to stopping cold turkey, but responsible tapering is fine.



Please give her a big hug for me.



This is a cautionary tale that I will take to heart. It also brought me to pause. I hate that your wife had to go through such pain. I do not know her, but I feel so much empathy for her. And super glad that she's doing well now!

My grandmother, who suffered from Crohn's disease before any of the modern treatments were available, was addicted to Paregoric because of her pain. There was no MMJ for her then and she wouldn't have tried it anyway because of the stigma. I'm so glad that times have changed for us all.

You give me hope for tapering off the Effexor. She’s been on it for well over ten years and watching what happens when she misses a dose frightens me.

 

[LadyAshwynn]

I am now down to two doses a day of the Norco 5-325. I was able to completely drop the morning dose, then shuffle the noon dose to morning and space out the remaining dose to late in the afternoon.
So yesterday I took one full dose at 8 AM and one at about 4 PM, with no withdrawal effects. What I am still grappling with is the pain itself. I have a lot of it. I am still on the 250mg , 5:1 formula, and I am up to 1 mL doses 3 times a day. The dose itself works fairly well on the pain (bolstered by copious hits of Gorilla Glue, which makes me sleepy but I've learned to like it anyway), but it doesn't have staying power. I'm going to put in an order for the 1000mg formula.