Reusing soil

[fatbuds420]

How can i make soil fertile again, can i add universal fertilizer to it (the slow release one) and be done with it? What does exactly soil need other than npk?

 

[Emilya Green]

you need minerals... There are rejuvenation kits you can buy that will add back the minerals that our plants take out of the soil. Then the soil needs to "cook" for a month or so so that those minerals can start to break down. Many soils have buffers in them that put the pH into the proper range, and with use those things get used up too. Most of the time you will want to add some dolomite lime and even some fresh peat into your soil as you are rejuvenating it along with sources of calcium, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, a little bit of humic acid as well as other trace elements that you can add with products such as Azomite.

This of course is considering that the soil you have started with has nothing wrong with it other than being depleted of nutrients. If it happens to be a soil that had a large content of peat or sphagnum moss in it, this will have broken down over several uses and will have sent the base pH of the soil into the acidic range, and that would need to all be flushed out of there before the soil could be used again.

The universal fertilizer you spoke of, such as an organic 5-5-5 all purpose, can be added in small amounts too, but this is nutrient in a ready to use form, and not exactly what you will want to have in its raw forms in a soil that you are relying on to supply nutrients.

All of this above discussion was assuming that you are wanting to end up with a soil that can support the grow, without needing to add additional nutrients. If all you are wanting is to use the soil as a medium to hold the plants and the nutrients you will be supplying out of a bottle, then the soil rejuvenation is much easier. Simply flush out the debris left over in the soil from the past grows and the peat/moss breaking down, add some more dolomite as an low pH buffer, add some more perlite so the soil doesn't keep compacting as its components are being used up, and you should be good to go. There is a big difference between a soil simply there to hold the roots or a soil that is living and able to supply everything the plants need, and your prep inbetween will depend on where you are at between these two extremes.

 

[fatbuds420]

you need minerals... There are rejuvenation kits you can buy that will add back the minerals that our plants take out of the soil. Then the soil needs to "cook" for a month or so so that those minerals can start to break down. Many soils have buffers in them that put the pH into the proper range, and with use those things get used up too. Most of the time you will want to add some dolomite lime and even some fresh peat into your soil as you are rejuvenating it along with sources of calcium, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, a little bit of humic acid as well as other trace elements that you can add with products such as Azomite.

This of course is considering that the soil you have started with has nothing wrong with it other than being depleted of nutrients. If it happens to be a soil that had a large content of peat or sphagnum moss in it, this will have broken down over several uses and will have sent the base pH of the soil into the acidic range, and that would need to all be flushed out of there before the soil could be used again.

The universal fertilizer you spoke of, such as an organic 5-5-5 all purpose, can be added in small amounts too, but this is nutrient in a ready to use form, and not exactly what you will want to have in its raw forms in a soil that you are relying on to supply nutrients.

All of this above discussion was assuming that you are wanting to end up with a soil that can support the grow, without needing to add additional nutrients. If all you are wanting is to use the soil as a medium to hold the plants and the nutrients you will be supplying out of a bottle, then the soil rejuvenation is much easier. Simply flush out the debris left over in the soil from the past grows and the peat/moss breaking down, add some more dolomite as an low pH buffer, add some more perlite so the soil doesn't keep compacting as its components are being used up, and you should be good to go. There is a big difference between a soil simply there to hold the roots or a soil that is living and able to supply everything the plants need, and your prep inbetween will depend on where you are at between these two extremes.

Looks to be easier just to buy new soil, i have some good soil that only cost for 3eur/45L. Thanks anyway! I just didn't want to end up with piles of used soil... Can soil be reused a few times before all of its nutrients are depleted?

 

[SmokingWings]

Looks to be easier just to buy new soil, i have some good soil that only cost for 3eur/45L. Thanks anyway! I just didn't want to end up with piles of used soil... Can soil be reused a few times before all of its nutrients are depleted?

Quality soil can be used several times if need be. The stuff that is lower priced naturally cannot be reused as many times, a case of "getting what you pay for".

Rejuvenating the soil is a lot cheaper in the long run than buying new soil and just using it a time or two. The bulk of your expense is upfront at the start and it is a minimal cost for the additives and fairly easy to just sit there and mix back in. There is a really good chance that the end result will be a better soil than what you can buy inexpensively. When you say it only costs 3eur/45L I figure you mean that it does not cost as much as a quality super-soil already pre-mixed.

If in the long run you just want to replace the soil then you can spread your used soil over the lawn or over any garden bed. Nature will start to rejuvenate it naturally. Pick a nice flower garden area to start and people will eventually be comfortable seeing you bringing home soil and gardening supplies and not even think that you are growing a marijuana plant.

Enjoy the day.

 

[fatbuds420]

Quality soil can be used several times if need be. The stuff that is lower priced naturally cannot be reused as many times, a case of "getting what you pay for".

Rejuvenating the soil is a lot cheaper in the long run than buying new soil and just using it a time or two. The bulk of your expense is upfront at the start and it is a minimal cost for the additives and fairly easy to just sit there and mix back in. There is a really good chance that the end result will be a better soil than what you can buy inexpensively. When you say it only costs 3eur/45L I figure you mean that it does not cost as much as a quality super-soil already pre-mixed.

If in the long run you just want to replace the soil then you can spread your used soil over the lawn or over any garden bed. Nature will start to rejuvenate it naturally. Pick a nice flower garden area to start and people will eventually be comfortable seeing you bringing home soil and gardening supplies and not even think that you are growing a marijuana plant.

Enjoy the day.

But realistically, can i get bigger yields by using higher quality soil? (at least 10% more) my plants never had nutrien deficiency, isn't that the main factor?

 

[fatbuds420]

Also quick questions:whats better, slow release nutrients or fast release nutrients? (when using both of them right, so not too to or too little) and, are baking soda and vinegar ok to use insead of ph down and ph up?

 

[Emilya Green]

But realistically, can i get bigger yields by using higher quality soil? (at least 10% more) my plants never had nutrien deficiency, isn't that the main factor?

You have to compare apples with apples... if you are comparing a high quality organic soil vs what you can get out of a cheap soil, then yes... the better soil will win out and give you more yield, however this number is more in the control of the gardener with his/her methods than it is in the soil itself. The hydro folks will tell you that there is the biggest yields, but the organic soil people will ask, at what cost in overall quality does this happen?
I am currently doing an experiment. I have good organic supersoil that I make and amend myself. I get excellent results out of my soil and have for many years on the same mix. This round, I have added a collection of volcanic minerals, Andesite, to my soil to see if the added minerals will make a difference in the quality that I can produce. I truly believe that what is in the soil, makes a huge difference in the end. It might not be 10% in overall yield as compared to a hydro setup where nutrients are being applied 24/7, but my taste and quality should be over the moon this time because of what I have done.

Also quick questions:whats better, slow release nutrients or fast release nutrients? (when using both of them right, so not too to or too little) and, are baking soda and vinegar ok to use insead of ph down and ph up?

It depends on the method of growing you are using. I don't apply nutrients in my grows because I have it all in my soil and I am applying active living microbes to the soil to take care of the feeding for me. Mine would be classified as the ultimate slow release type grow. I feel this is superior. If however you are feeding out of a bottle because your soil isnt rich enough to supply all that the plant needs, then you want fast release, or instant release nutrients. This is where proper pH of your mixtures comes into play... once you get the fluid into the proper pH range, the nutes have been released... they are mobile and ready to uptake into the plant.
I would not recommend baking soda as a pH up, although many do use it. I used pickling lime as an alternative... it takes very little to adjust the pH and can be premixed and stored in GLASS containers, because it will eat plastic. For pH down, I don't like vinegar or fruit juices because they draw in bugs. For pH down I like to use sulfuric acid because it works very well and is very cheap and easy to work with. Simply buy a small container (less than $10) of battery acid from your local car parts store and use it diluted in DISTILLED water by buying a gallon of distilled water, taking out one cup and carefully pouring back 1 cup of the battery acid. This 15:1 dilution is safe to use (wont burn you) and it works at just about the same rate as the commercial pH down product made from phosphoric acid. The $10 purchase will make many gallons of pH down, enough for several years of steady use.

 

[fatbuds420]

You have to compare apples with apples... if you are comparing a high quality organic soil vs what you can get out of a cheap soil, then yes... the better soil will win out and give you more yield, however this number is more in the control of the gardener with his/her methods than it is in the soil itself. The hydro folks will tell you that there is the biggest yields, but the organic soil people will ask, at what cost in overall quality does this happen?
I am currently doing an experiment. I have good organic supersoil that I make and amend myself. I get excellent results out of my soil and have for many years on the same mix. This round, I have added a collection of volcanic minerals, Andesite, to my soil to see if the added minerals will make a difference in the quality that I can produce. I truly believe that what is in the soil, makes a huge difference in the end. It might not be 10% in overall yield as compared to a hydro setup where nutrients are being applied 24/7, but my taste and quality should be over the moon this time because of what I have done.

It depends on the method of growing you are using. I don't apply nutrients in my grows because I have it all in my soil and I am applying active living microbes to the soil to take care of the feeding for me. Mine would be classified as the ultimate slow release type grow. I feel this is superior. If however you are feeding out of a bottle because your soil isnt rich enough to supply all that the plant needs, then you want fast release, or instant release nutrients. This is where proper pH of your mixtures comes into play... once you get the fluid into the proper pH range, the nutes have been released... they are mobile and ready to uptake into the plant.
I would not recommend baking soda as a pH up, although many do use it. I used pickling lime as an alternative... it takes very little to adjust the pH and can be premixed and stored in GLASS containers, because it will eat plastic. For pH down, I don't like vinegar or fruit juices because they draw in bugs. For pH down I like to use sulfuric acid because it works very well and is very cheap and easy to work with. Simply buy a small container (less than $10) of battery acid from your local car parts store and use it diluted in DISTILLED water by buying a gallon of distilled water, taking out one cup and carefully pouring back 1 cup of the battery acid. This 15:1 dilution is safe to use (wont burn you) and it works at just about the same rate as the commercial pH down product made from phosphoric acid. The $10 purchase will make many gallons of pH down, enough for several years of steady use.

thank you, i didn't wanna buy ph down and up, because in my country grow shops are monitored.... what would you say is the best way to get the highest yield for the lowest price(i'm not talking about stuff like good lights, i'm talking about one-time use stuff like nutrients and soil), , i'm talking quantity over quality, just curious, not planning to sell (well, except for a few friends, but that's just a few joints) i'd like to get an idea on how much people who grow and sell make. cause weed is HELLA expensive here. 10EUR/g and let's be honest here, idk about you. but 1 gram really doesn't last me long. i feel like they are just ripping everyone off. growing weed seems cheap. (if you don't count the up-front cost)

 

[Emilya Green]

IMHO the best bang for your buck is to do what I have ended up doing, because from the very beginning of this project about 10 years ago, I was looking for the most economical and most reproducible grow method I could find. I did not want to have a lot of deliveries or trips to grow shops, nor did I want my trash to reflect what I was doing.

I ended up with a supersoil model. I made 50 gallons of SubCool's supersoil, and I have been using it with minimal amendments over and over again all of this time. It cost me $125 originally to build this soil and another $100 or so over the years to buy more raw materials to keep the grow going.
So think about my cost per run, just regarding soil. I run about 3 runs a year as an average, so that is 30 grows with that $125 soil investment. Pretty cheap, eh?
Then nutrients. I used to spend a lot on nutrients, and this either caused me to have lots of interactions with the UPS man, or trips to the grow shop, not to mention all the money I spent on that stuff. This was the incentive for the supersoil mainly... to get away from the nutrient money pit. Nowadays, I spend maybe $25 per run on something I have run out of, but that is it. Think about my cost per ounce now....
I was doing so well in my 4x4 tent that I was able to take almost a year off without running out of pot, and I supply several people. Right now I am running in half that size, and this run in (3) 10gal containers should net me at least a pound of dry pot, if not much more. The cost this time can be easily figured if you take out of the calculation that I recently bought the parts to build new lights... But soil was cheap... I spent $20 on some andesite to add in and then used leftovers of things on hand to amend the old soil while I was vegging. I spent $20 on some RealGrower's Recharge to supply my microbes during the entire grow, and probably the next one too. I spend $2 /week on filtered water. I am spending a lot less on electricity with the new lights. Lets just throw out a number and say that the electricity for my grow is costing an extra $20 a month for the 2 months of bloom. That is it.... 16 oz / $112 total cost = $7 oz or about .25c per gram.

 

[SmokingWings]

But realistically, can i get bigger yields by using higher quality soil? (at least 10% more) my plants never had nutrien deficiency, isn't that the main factor?

You might not have had a nutrient deficiency and you are happy with the results up to now. With a better soil you now have the potential for more than a 10% increase in quantity if that is what you are looking for.

Since you indicate that you are growing for yourself and a few friends you should be able to produce more in quantity and in quality by using a better soil. My experience in growing anything is to go after quality first and the quantity comes along naturally.

Trying to increase quantity without worrying about quality can be done. However, rarely will quality increase naturally if the main effort is just quantity.

 

[fatbuds420]

IMHO the best bang for your buck is to do what I have ended up doing, because from the very beginning of this project about 10 years ago, I was looking for the most economical and most reproducible grow method I could find. I did not want to have a lot of deliveries or trips to grow shops, nor did I want my trash to reflect what I was doing.

I ended up with a supersoil model. I made 50 gallons of SubCool's supersoil, and I have been using it with minimal amendments over and over again all of this time. It cost me $125 originally to build this soil and another $100 or so over the years to buy more raw materials to keep the grow going.
So think about my cost per run, just regarding soil. I run about 3 runs a year as an average, so that is 30 grows with that $125 soil investment. Pretty cheap, eh?
Then nutrients. I used to spend a lot on nutrients, and this either caused me to have lots of interactions with the UPS man, or trips to the grow shop, not to mention all the money I spent on that stuff. This was the incentive for the supersoil mainly... to get away from the nutrient money pit. Nowadays, I spend maybe $25 per run on something I have run out of, but that is it. Think about my cost per ounce now....
I was doing so well in my 4x4 tent that I was able to take almost a year off without running out of pot, and I supply several people. Right now I am running in half that size, and this run in (3) 10gal containers should net me at least a pound of dry pot, if not much more. The cost this time can be easily figured if you take out of the calculation that I recently bought the parts to build new lights... But soil was cheap... I spent $20 on some andesite to add in and then used leftovers of things on hand to amend the old soil while I was vegging. I spent $20 on some RealGrower's Recharge to supply my microbes during the entire grow, and probably the next one too. I spend $2 /week on filtered water. I am spending a lot less on electricity with the new lights. Lets just throw out a number and say that the electricity for my grow is costing an extra $20 a month for the 2 months of bloom. That is it.... 16 oz / $112 total cost = $7 oz or about .25c per gram.

i have a question that's not really about weed, but you know a lot so i know you'll give me a good answer, i have a big tangerines/lime tree, it used to be only tangerines, but it somehow mutated over the year and it has become this weird lime looking green fruit that tastes kinda bad. i've had it for many many years since it was a little seedling. now it's about 2 meters high, and it's in a huge pot. and it's been there for many years, i usually give it universal compost, but by the sounds of what you are saying that's not enough right? changing soil is not an option, it weighs at least 250kg if i had to guess, probably more. what would you add to that soil to make it good again?

 

[Emilya Green]

I would look into a product like Earth Dust, that will allow you to topically remineralize that soil via watering.

 

[fatbuds420]

I would look into a product like Earth Dust, that will allow you to topically remineralize that soil via watering.

i see, what about stuff like eggshells, coffee, banana peals, tea, ash etc. i heard those are good fertilizers, but do they contain minerals too?

 

[Emilya Green]

i see, what about stuff like eggshells, coffee, banana peals, tea, ash etc. i heard those are good fertilizers, but do they contain minerals too?

they do, but they take about 3 months to compost down into a usable form... and that is not going to happen quickly. And while that stuff is breaking down, the pH surrounding that debris fluxuates wildly, creating death zones in the soil. I certainly would not recommend doing this when there are better ways to accomplish the same thing. I would suggest making a compost pile to process all that stuff into good rich soil, and then use that soil to amend the area.

 

[SommerVirelli]

I’ve used the same soil for years. When I’m done with a grow, that soil is put into a big tote and supplemented with Oneshot by Oregon’s Only, mycorrhizae, and a little Biochar. This stays in the tote to “cook” while another batch is used for the next grow.

 

[lacaration]

Looks to be easier just to buy new soil, i have some good soil that only cost for 3eur/45L. Thanks anyway! I just didn't want to end up with piles of used soil... Can soil be reused a few times before all of its nutrients are depleted?

Dry it out,throw it in a food processor, and mix it WELL into the soil. Along with some hard boiled egg shells,and tea bag leaves.