Rust spots again

[Tedmarx38]

I’m in week ten with this Runtz auto and as with almost every grow, I’m seeing these discolorations now that we are well into flowering. I don’t think it’s a fungus because it’s not remotely powdery nor does it have the other characteristics of that.

So, while I’m leaning toward cal, mag or sulphur deficiency, I’m not sure that’s it. I’ve been adding a touch of both Epsom and calmag with almost every watering and just recently upped their levels, which only made it worse. Specifics below along with my recent watering/feeding records. The plants are not overwatered as I’m gauging when to water on weight vs a referenced dry pot Thanks as always!
——————
Nutes are Jack's blossom booster, calmag and epsom salts.
Spider Farmer sf-2000 led 200 watt
Fox Farms Ocean forest soil
Temp range 67 dark, 80
light schedule 20 on, 4 off
Spring water ph 8.7 corrected to 6.5
TDS out of the tap is about 100
3 gallon air pots

————

2/25

1/4 tsp epsom, 1/4 tsp 20/20/20, 1/4 tsp cal mag. Ph 6.3 tds 350. 3 gallons. Topped up soil. Soil nutrients seemed weak in some pots (two diff bags of fox farm ocean forest) resulting in weak pale foliage in some, but plants responding well to nutrients even at early stage.

3/1

1/4 tsp epsom, 1/4 tsp 10/30/20, 1/4 tsp cal mag. Ph 5.8 tds 530 3 gallons. Chased with one gallon pure water to lower ph. Avg ph should therefore be 6.5.



3/3

1/4 tsp epsom, 1/2 tsp 10/30/20, 1/4 tsp cal mag. Solution Ph 6.39 tds 723.

2 gallons across six plants

3/7
1/2 tsp epsom, 1/4 tsp 10/30/20, 2 tsp cal mag. Solution Ph 6.62 tds 765.

2 gallons. Seeing some rust spots…could be low sulphur cal or mag so upped these.

 

[bluter]

they look underfed among other things.
what does your feed chart look like right now ?

Chased with one gallon pure water to lower ph. Avg ph should therefore be 6.5.

what do you mean by this ? are you feeding then watering directly after ? whatever you do don't chase run off ph. nothing but tears lie that way. its your inputs you need to balance and watch.

i don't think you have near a complete nute line. it'll need more than the booster. fox farm is only good for a few weeks when the plant is a seedling or early veg. after that you need a full nute line.

 

[Tedmarx38]

they look underfed among other things.
what does your feed chart look like right now ?




what do you mean by this ? are you feeding then watering directly after ? whatever you do don't chase run off ph. nothing but tears lie that way. its your inputs you need to balance and watch.

i don't think you have near a complete nute line. it'll need more than the booster. fox farm is only good for a few weeks when the plant is a seedling or early veg. after that you need a full nute line.

Yeah I shouldn’t have put the “chase” line in there due to confusion. I had mixed up a solution that proved too acidic so rather than throw it out, I used it followed immediately by higher ph water to make the average ph suitable.

Re nutes, I’m typically using 1/4 tsp each per gallon of jacks 10-30-20 blossom booster, cal mag and Epsom, plus a tiny amount of citric acid (to lower ph to 6.3-6.6 or so). I did, however, up these considerably the other day per the original post and things just look worse.

 

[SmokingWings]

So, while I’m leaning toward cal, mag or sulphur deficiency, I’m not sure that’s it.

The shortage of calcium is a common problem that often starts to show as the female plants enter their flowering stage.

I’ve been adding a touch of both Epsom and calmag with almost every watering and just recently upped their levels, which only made it worse.

That the problem is being fixed is not something that usually shows up in a matter of days. The signs of plant problems that show up in the leaves will rarely go away. What happens is that new signs of the problem stop spreading or appearing on newer leaves. In the next several weeks all the damaged leaves will still be damaged but that particular problem will not be showing on the leaves closer to the developing buds.

Not sure about the "touch of both". As long as "the touch" is the amount recommended on the package of the Calcium-Magnesium product you are using it should be fine.

Ph 5.8 .... 3 gallons. Chased with one gallon pure water to lower ph. Avg ph should therefore be 6.5.

It might work that way or it might not; I don't know for sure. More likely to actually get to, or very close to, the preferred 6.3 pH by using your pH down on the original 3 gallons of solution. Otherwise just chasing with more water does not mean it will drop the pH of the water already in the soil or the pH of the soil that was already drenched.

I’m in week ten with this Runtz auto and as with almost every grow, I’m seeing these discolorations now that we are well into flowering.

Once the plant goes into flowering it demands more nutrients just like most other life forms. The female, whether a plant, mammal or amphibian will need more nutrients to support not only the adult female but the developing child, or seed development, or the development of eggs as examples.

 

[Tedmarx38]

Appreciate the help. One problem I continue to face is that despite using the upper limit and sometimes more than that for each nutrient, I end up with what appears to be deficiencies. I use the Lusterleaf rapitest soil test system and consistently get reading like this, which I obtained just now even tho I fed them just yesterday:

3/8 soil test

ph 6.6

K1 potassium deficient

P0 phosphorus depleted

N1 nitrogen deficient

Should I up the nutes even more? Tough call I suppose as I do see some leaf curling indicative of nutrient burn.

 

[Skunksta]

Your using both epson salts and calmag i dont grow in soil.
So i have no clue but not something i would do in coco.
That being said that dont look like your issue and your getting some good advice.
Hope it works out for you

 

[Jose Tall Grass]

Feed bloom nutes. Looks like a potassium deficiency

 

[Tedmarx38]

Your using both epson salts and calmag i dont grow in soil.
So i have no clue but not something i would do in coco.
That being said that dont look like your issue and your getting some good advice.
Hope it works out for you

Thanks! For those who’ve seen my stuff here before this will be a repeat, but I have to wonder if my water source impacts prescribed nute dosing. Here’s what I mean:

The instructions for all nutes that I’ve worked with do not take into account source water components. So, I’m on a spring with exceptionally soft and mineral free water, and I’m seeing the same dosing instructions that I would have seen on my public water supply in Indiana, where the water was very hard. It’s tempting to go well above the recommended usage rates.

Will appreciate feedback on this notion.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Since you added more Ca, and Mg and it got worse, you may have too much Ca/Mg and that can lock out N, P, and K. I don't think Jacks is full organic, so you it could also be you have a salt build-up. As an test, flush one plant with water, 3X the volume of the pot, then let it dry and resume feeding and see if that doesn't help. The damaged leaves will not recover, but it should prevent further damage.

 

[Tedmarx38]

Since you added more Ca, and Mg and it got worse, you may have too much Ca/Mg and that can lock out N, P, and K. I don't think Jacks is full organic, so you it could also be you have a salt build-up. As an test, flush one plant with water, 3X the volume of the pot, then let it dry and resume feeding and see if that doesn't help. The damaged leaves will not recover, but it should prevent further damage.

Thanks. One question on this suggestion: would nutrient lock affect the readings of the soil test, which shows these being depleted? Seems counterintuitive.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Thanks. One question on this suggestion: would nutrient lock affect the readings of the soil test, which shows these being depleted? Seems counterintuitive.

Excellent question, I do not know for sure, but it is possible that the N, P, & K are still there, but bound (locked) up in a form that the test doesn't (can't) measure(?). That' why I sugggested to use one as a test.

 

[Jose Tall Grass]

I’m in week ten with this Runtz auto and as with almost every grow, I’m seeing these discolorations now that we are well into flowering. I don’t think it’s a fungus because it’s not remotely powdery nor does it have the other characteristics of that.

So, while I’m leaning toward cal, mag or sulphur deficiency, I’m not sure that’s it. I’ve been adding a touch of both Epsom and calmag with almost every watering and just recently upped their levels, which only made it worse. Specifics below along with my recent watering/feeding records. The plants are not overwatered as I’m gauging when to water on weight vs a referenced dry pot Thanks as always!
——————
Nutes are Jack's blossom booster, calmag and epsom salts.
Spider Farmer sf-2000 led 200 watt
Fox Farms Ocean forest soil
Temp range 67 dark, 80
light schedule 20 on, 4 off
Spring water ph 8.7 corrected to 6.5
TDS out of the tap is about 100
3 gallon air pots

————

2/25

1/4 tsp epsom, 1/4 tsp 20/20/20, 1/4 tsp cal mag. Ph 6.3 tds 350. 3 gallons. Topped up soil. Soil nutrients seemed weak in some pots (two diff bags of fox farm ocean forest) resulting in weak pale foliage in some, but plants responding well to nutrients even at early stage.

3/1

1/4 tsp epsom, 1/4 tsp 10/30/20, 1/4 tsp cal mag. Ph 5.8 tds 530 3 gallons. Chased with one gallon pure water to lower ph. Avg ph should therefore be 6.5.



3/3

1/4 tsp epsom, 1/2 tsp 10/30/20, 1/4 tsp cal mag. Solution Ph 6.39 tds 723.

2 gallons across six plants

3/7
1/2 tsp epsom, 1/4 tsp 10/30/20, 2 tsp cal mag. Solution Ph 6.62 tds 765.

2 gallons. Seeing some rust spots…could be low sulphur cal or mag so upped these.

So you’re not using nitrogen, potassium or phosphorus. This is what the results are. Cal mag and epsom salt (magnesium) aren’t going to get you through this grow. What else do you have?

 

[Phytoplankton]

So you’re not using nitrogen, potassium or phosphorus. This is what the results are. Cal mag and epsom salt (magnesium) aren’t going to get you through this grow. What else do you have?

If I'm reading it right, he's using Jack's 10-30-20.

 

[farside05]

Your plants are starving for what they really need. You're feeding a fertilizer that has absolutely horrible ratios (1-3-2). You're not really to blame for that. Most of the industry is upside down. Cannabis likes more like 5-1-6. So you're fertilizer is starving the plant of N & K, and feeding excessive P. Bloom foods benefit noone but the fertilizer company.

 

[Jose Tall Grass]

If I'm reading it right, he's using Jack's 10-30-20.

Missed that. Disregard

 

[Jose Tall Grass]

If you’re using jack’s then why are you adding cal mag? One of your bags say calcium nitrate right? That’s your calcium and nitrogen. Epsom salt is your magnesium. Flush the medium it’s locking out. You added double the dosage of cal mag of what you were supposed @Phytoplankton is right

 

[Tedmarx38]

Excellent question, I do not know for sure, but it is possible that the N, P, & K are still there, but bound (locked) up in a form that the test doesn't (can't) measure(?). That' why I sugggested to use one as a test.

Yeah plus that brand of test has some major drawbacks but the only I can afford. Maybe someone can suggest alternatives? I like the way it’s fairly easy, but half the contents spill out when you try to open a capsule, and the powder never seem to dissolve.

 

[Tedmarx38]

Your plants are starving for what they really need. You're feeding a fertilizer that has absolutely horrible ratios (1-3-2). You're not really to blame for that. Most of the industry is upside down. Cannabis likes more like 5-1-6. So you're fertilizer is starving the plant of N & K, and feeding excessive P. Bloom foods benefit noone but the fertilizer company.

Yeah I’m starting to really distrust some of these products. Not naming but one of the manufacturers gave me a really lame response about this. I might start mixing up my own juice.

 

[Tedmarx38]

If you’re using jack’s then why are you adding cal mag? One of your bags say calcium nitrate right? That’s your calcium and nitrogen. Epsom salt is your magnesium. Flush the medium it’s locking out. You added double the dosage of cal mag of what you were supposed @Phytoplankton is right

Thanks Jose. Even if this one has issues, you should see my previous grows! I added calmag to those after disaster struck, with improved results.

For water like mine, the lack of calcium, magnesium and sulfur appear to overcome anything associated with what the jacks bloom offers.

 

[farside05]

I might start mixing up my own juice.

If you're interested in going down that road, check THIS.