Soviets 1st Grow - Soil - 600WHPS - White Widow/StrawBerry Cough -2013

[TheSoviet]

Hello. Thought I'd share my first grow experience. Get some support in the process. I have no idea how this is going to turn out, But I tried my best with this setup.

Growing some White Widow and Strawberry Cough. 3 of each so far. Have a 600w HPS light, A 175 CFM Exhaust fan with carbon filter, Have pics of the soil I picked out, Watering with 6.5ph water at the moment. All 6 seeds germinated really well(super excited about the 100%). I'm using a Blue Lab PH meter with a generic Moister meter so I don't over water(seems to be working well). The Seedlings are NOT planted in the soil that is pictured, I used some seed starting soil from home depot, the brand name is Nature's Mix. I mixed some Perlite in with the soil.

I have a question about watering. I'm trying to keep them moist at the moment. I try to water whenever I see the top soil getting dry/hard. The bottom of the cups are higher in mostire then the top(obviously). I just didn't want the bottom to rot any roots, Should I put holes in the bottom of the cups or something? The bottoms are not drenched, just quite moist, moister then the top anyway.

I'm not running my fan/filter yet, I don't know if I should be running my light yet or what, I know people don't suggest seedlings under a 600w light but It's all I got atm, other then 3 desk lamps with MILD CFL's. I'm not sure if I should keep them in darkness, I've been running the light off and on to keep temps up(the picture of the Hydrometer is at night with no light on). My light raises the temp by 10-20 degrees. Any suggestions here ? My light is suspended about 3 feet in the air, I can move it easily if need be, I don't want to cause stretching, again not sure the ideal height, other then hand testing(which seems useless unless the plants are taller with a canopy).

Can't think of anything else at the moment, Do you folks think my other seeds will sprout ? I didn't take pictures of all 6, simply because they are still under the soil. It's still relatively early I think, so I'm not worried.


Day 3: 2 plants have sprouted, I planted all 6 exactly the same, or so I tried, with tweezers, tried getting the root face down. Not sure if I can expect the rest to follow suit, Hopefully they
spout. I hope I didn't plant them to deep. I'm thrilled that 2 of them sprouted.

Here are some Pictures.

 

[TanR]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Hi Soviet,

I'm interested in following your progress so I'm subscribed.

Yes, you should definately have holes in the bottoms of those cups. It's not life or death this early in sprouting but will become terribly important as the roots begin growing into that lower area. Your right to be concerned about root rot and drowning them.

As far as lighting; is your light is dimmable. Also curious if you can use a Metal Halide bulb in it rather than the High Pressure Sodium, as MH would be better during the vegetative stage (HPS during bloom). If light is dimmable then drop down to 50% power or so and raise it up as high as possible. If light is not dimmable and you can’t get it 4-5 feet above the seedlings then I would suggest using the desk lamps/CFL’s for at least the first two weeks or so. If the CFL’s have a color temperature of 5000 Kelvin or higher they would be superior to the HPS which I’m guessing has a rating of somewhere around 2,500 K’s. I think you would be surprised at how much growing will/can occur with a couple CFL’s placed very close to your girls.

Good luck and keep us updated with your progress and questions. I find it rewarding to watch someone else’s grow unfold and learn along with them.

 

[TheSoviet]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Thanks for the sub.


Day 4: Another seedling is sprouting, the count is 2 white widow 1 strawberry cough. I cut holes in the bottoms of the cups and added trays to catch any runoff.


I have 3 15w CFL Lamps will this do anything at all ? If not, what am I looking for watt wise? You mentioned raising the light to the ceiling, which I can do easily, however It's 7 feet or so. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't this be promoting stretching ? What exactly is the issue of leaving them 2-3 feet away from the seedlings ? I ask because I've read around and some people do this after 5-10 days with no apparent issues. I'm gonna try raiseing the lights higher, Don't want them burning, however they don't seem to be burnt as of yet, then again I'm no expert.

My Light has no 50%,25% power/dim.

Appreciate the help folks.

Pics below. I'm working with a new camera so I expect the pics to get better as I learn more about it.

 

[wildbill38]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Welcome to 420 Soviet. Subbed and watching.

 

[TheSoviet]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

So I decided to raise the light about 5 feet above the sprouts. I noticed they were curling, and overlooked it initially. I'll raise/lower as needed. I got a basic analog timer that I'm working on right now to hook up to the lights. I'm not sure when I'll start running my exhaust fan/filter. Going to start using my osculating fan now, not really sure when people start implementing their fans.

For my next grow I'll most definitely look into higher powered CFL's for the seedling/early veg state. Eventually maybe using MH. However for now I'm just going to stick with what I have, and make the most of it.

Thanks Wildbill!

 

[TanR]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Good deal Soviet. I think you’re on the right track in raising the light in relation to what the plants where telling you by curling. I think those CFL's would work (but not really well), and raising the light will keep your sprouts from burning or washing out.

I'm enjoying my first indoor grow now, after several outdoor grows. I find this site provides a wealth of general and specific information and is an invaluable resource, but ultimately there are so many little intangible nuances to each of our grows that we need to get comfortable with learning to interpret the signals from the plants in their environment.

Please keep us updated on your girls. Good growing

 

[TheSoviet]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Good deal Soviet. I think you’re on the right track in raising the light in relation to what the plants where telling you by curling. I think those CFL's would work (but not really well), and raising the light will keep your sprouts from burning or washing out.

I'm enjoying my first indoor grow now, after several outdoor grows. I find this site provides a wealth of general and specific information and is an invaluable resource, but ultimately there are so many little intangible nuances to each of our grows that we need to get comfortable with learning to interpret the signals from the plants in their environment.

Please keep us updated on your girls. Good growing

Do you have a link to a grow journal, or are you not running one ? I forgot to mention I'm running feminized seeds. It's all about learning, like you mentioned. I know once I get some experience I'll be sharing it with others, can't stress enough how helpful people can be on this site. What strains are you growing, and how did your outdoor grows go ? I'd love to grow outdoors however it's not possible where I live.

I'm thankful Cannabis is so damn hardy, so when you make mistakes with nutes, transplants etc etc the plants give you time to rectify aforementioned mistakes.

Day 5ish. It looks like all 6 seeds are sprouting, 2 I can see just popping up, 4 have stems well above ground. Temp is hovering at 70 with the lights on, Humidity is 45% at the moment. One of the Strawberry Cough plants is quite a bit bigger then all the others. Makes sense, because his germ root was massive. I can already see a difference in the leaves after moving the light up, I may do another foot or so. I know the leaves shouldn't be curled, however I don't know the ideal height/position I should be looking for. In my opinion they look good so far. Will post pics once they have progressed a little more.

 

[TanR]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Soviet,
Glad to hear all your girls have sprouted. As far as moving the lights up, I suspect your about the right distance if they are looking good. Even High Intensity lighting has a limit to it's effective distance.

No grow journel for me this grow. As mentioned, this is my first in door grow in early stages. Contrary to every sensible suggestion on this forum to get a room set up and sort of dialed in prior to growing, I am building mine as I go (grow!). LOL There are also so many excellent growers sharing on this site that until I've got one or two indoors under my belt at least I'm not convinced I would have anything beneficial to share.

My outdoor efforts, while successful, where not what I would call spectacular or "highly managed". I could not nurture and nurish the plants the way I can indoors due to visibility concerns and location challanges. I didn't exactly plant them, forget them and come back in several months, but couldn't readily feed and water, treat for pests, etc.. either.

I really appreciate you sharing your grow with us so we can all enjoy the journey.

 

[TheSoviet]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Soviet,
Glad to hear all your girls have sprouted. As far as moving the lights up, I suspect your about the right distance if they are looking good. Even High Intensity lighting has a limit to it's effective distance.

No grow journel for me this grow. As mentioned, this is my first in door grow in early stages. Contrary to every sensible suggestion on this forum to get a room set up and sort of dialed in prior to growing, I am building mine as I go (grow!). LOL There are also so many excellent growers sharing on this site that until I've got one or two indoors under my belt at least I'm not convinced I would have anything beneficial to share.

My outdoor efforts, while successful, where not what I would call spectacular or "highly managed". I could not nurture and nurish the plants the way I can indoors due to visibility concerns and location challanges. I didn't exactly plant them, forget them and come back in several months, but couldn't readily feed and water, treat for pests, etc.. either.

I really appreciate you sharing your grow with us so we can all enjoy the journey.

Hey Tanr, hope the indoor grow goes well. The indoor situation sounds better, so you can take care of the plants up to your standards. I'm the type of person that tries to get everything prepared before hand, you growing and building simultaneously is something else dude! I wish you well.

I ran into an odd issue with a plant couple days ago. It looked like it was sprouting, however it's root and seed was coming to the surface, almost growing horizontal. I took some tweezers, grabbed the seed/sprout and tried to put it face down in the soil. I can only hope for the best, it was a little tricky and still not sure if I did it well. that was a couple days ago and it doesn't seem to be sprouting as of yet. It's root was quite long tho. Other then that I think things are going well. The other 5 have sprouted, one of which is lagging behind a bit, but still going strong. The temperature is rising to around 80, humidity dropped to 40%. I'm running an oscillating fan on low, may run another one soon. Still not using the exhaust fan/carbon filter. I will start soon.

As I mentioned before, I'm running my osculating on low, do you think the higher settings would be better for the stem strengthening or would it just hinder the plant ? I'm thinking as the stem strengthens I'll eventually move on to medium/high.

I took a couple of pictures of the biggest Strawberry Cough plant.I still have no idea how to get quality close ups with this camera. What do you think, looking OK ?

 

[TanR]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Soviet,

Thanks for the well wishes on the "build as you grow" endeavor. I didn't start that way intentionally, just got impatient to get started. We were nearly out of anything to smoke, tired of buying stuff of unknown quality at ever changing prices, and…the wife gave her blessing – so I jumped the gun before she changed her mind! LOL Our children have all graduated college and are living on their own and coming home less and less frequently, so the timing was just perfect to begin a new and exciting hobby. Especially one with such profound additional benefits!

Had the same situation as you with a germ’ing seed and root popping up. If there is a next time (and I suspect there will be if we do this long enough), adding a little additional soil over top might be a less invasive approach to consider. I trust and hope yours will be just fine though as I’m sure you took all the care possible.

I’m interested in your lights on temperatures being around 80 given that your lights are up so high. In looking at your photo’s I was going to suggest that it might be time to begin lowering your lights a little at a time to reduce the stretch on the stems. But if you’re already 80 and the lights are 5 ft. or so above the plants already, I’m thinking your temperatures will soar as they are lowered. Eventually, you’ll want your light 18” to 24” inches or so above the plants and still want to be in the 75-85 degree range maximum. I can’t tell from your initial photo’s, but does your exhaust vent to an area separate from your grow room? If so, it might be time to start playing with that little in conjunction with increasing the speed on the oscillating fan.

Unless I’m mistaken, the carbon filter’s only purpose is to reduce/eliminate odor. At these early veg. stages, there shouldn’t be much smell coming from 6 small plants and for the sake of extending the usable life of the filter (and increasing air flow) you might consider removing it if incorporating the exhaust in cooling the room. I’ve also read that some people use a combination of fans blowing on or at their light(s), in conjunction with fan(s) pointed at their plants. There is also a good tutorial on turning an open type light reflector (I have a very similar 600 w light/reflector) into an enclosed air cooled light. I’ll paste the link below. Through whatever combinations I think you can begin lowering the lights a little at a time and begin dialing in your fans and venting to create the perfect environment for your ladies. In my limited experience and extensive reading, I haven’t seen that fans hinder the plants in any way, so short of blowing your sprouts over I don’t think you can’t overdo it with fans.
How do I build my own cool tube?


Happy growing!

 

[TheSoviet]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

I'm going to add another fan to the room, I'll start running my exhaust fan. The thing is tho, my exhaust fan and carbon filter are bolted together, I was under the impression all carbon filters work this way. I cannot separate them. My grow room is in a cellar, and the ducting exhaust is sent outside the cellar room, into the basement, with plenty of windows. I'll lower my light 2 feet and take it from there. I noticed after I took the pictures of that Strawberry Cough plant that the stem was sort of tilting, I assume it's due to the light distance, causing stretching like you mentioned.

When I first started I assumed there was no way the cellar would suffer from high temps. I guess I was wrong, it's normally very chilly in there year round. Lights have been off 5 hours temperature dropped to 69. In another hour I'll run both portable fans, exhaust and 600w light and see if breaker bursts. I'm thinking it'll be fine tho. Hopefully I can drop the temperature by 5-10 degrees. I've been running 18/6, are you doing the same or 24/0 ?

I plan on reading that cool tube article/guide, I'm glad I wouldn't have to buy an entire new light system. I had planned on buying one eventually, perhaps now I won't have to.

Thanks for the tips as always.


EDIT: OK so the plant I mentioned above is now hanging to the side, I'm not sure if it's ok or not, it was leaning in the above pictures but now it's just flat out on it's side. The stem is not broken, I have not touched it. The fan mixed with stretching is all I can think of, the fan is still on low.

Anything I can do ? I'm hoping it's fine and it will gain strength as I move the light down, which I have. it's about 3 and a half-4 feet off the ground, down from 6 Feet.

 

[TheSoviet]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Did a bunch of reading and dropped the light to about 2 feet. Going to see how this plays out. Did the hand test and don't feel any discomfort over 5-10min so I'm guessing it'll be fine. Temp is staying at 80. Just turned on the exhaust fan, will let post results.

 

[TanR]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Hi Soviet,

Yes, I think the plant leaning is the result of the stretch and perhaps fan. Wouldn't worry about it too much but I've propped them up by using a large paper clip or bread twisty to from a U shape and inserting it into the soil with the U pointed down and allowing the plant to lean on the crutch. At this early stage you also could add a little soil around the stem to help prop up the plant. Just don't overdo it. Maybe in inch additional topping at most.

Should you find benefit in removing the carbon filter, it most likely can be disconnected from the exhaust by loosening the hose clamp where the white exhaust hose and carbon filter meet. This would allow the exhaust system to operate without restriction. You may not need to though, as it sounds like your temps might be alright after adding the second fan. Keep playing with your set up and watching the plants and you'll get it dialed in.

In my grow effort, I'm currently running my light 16/8. More out of convenience than anything as this matches the schedule of our household. I've read a couple growers discuss the merits of 18/6, 24/0, 16/8 and even 15/9 during veg. The thinking I latched on to (rightly or wrongly) is that if we are trying to mimic mother nature in our indoor environment the sun doesn’t really shine much more than 14 or 15 hours even during the longest days of the year. I’ve also noticed that my girls (hopefully) seem to really benefit from the lights out period. I work in the same room (basement-home office) as the plants I swear the growth I see on them occurs overnight rather than during the day when lights are on.

Like you, I initially thought I might need to buy a different light (cool tube) and was a little bummed out. My temps were climbing and I was regretting buying the open reflector. That prompted my search on the best way to cool the light and the discovery of the article mentioned above. Modification comes at a price though as any glass placed between the light and plants does reduce (even if only slightly) the effectiveness of the light. I kept playing with fans and finally found a combo that keeps my temps around 75 max without modifying the light.

Good growing and Peace to you and yours.

 

[TheSoviet]

Re: Soviets 1st Grow -Soil- 600WHPS- White Widow/StrwBerry Cough -2013

Sadly, I think I have flea beetles. Found some today under on the trays. I'm not sure how to handle them, I read something about Pyrethrin/Pyrethrum. This really sucks tho. Anyone deal with this before ? It's odd because I own two really in depth books about cannabis growing and they don't even mention this insect, which is apparently common from what I've read.

Any help is appreciated. I'd take pics of them, however my brand new camera is acting up. I'd like to fix this problem asap.

 

[TanR]

Soviet,
Really sorry to hear about the bug problem. Not sure of what your options are for buying supplies, but I did read that flea beetles don't like onion or garlic. These suggestions came in form of companion plants, but can't help think you might use some chopped up as a temporary deterent while searching for a "killing" solution. I'll research along side your efforts and perhaps we can identify a workable solution.

Best of luck my friend!

 

[TheSoviet]

Thanks buddy, appreciate it.

I just got off the phone with my local hydro shop. The lady had no experience with these bugs, lots of insecticides for spider mites, aphids and gnats etc etc, I'm not sure if any of these would be effective for the flea beetles. I fixed my camera issue and will take pics of the bugs when they show their pesky antennae, I've been killing them as they arise. I'm going to call a plant nursery to see what advice/products they can offer. I really don't want to let this go on any longer.

Just for the record, they look like this https://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/beef/news/vbn0504f7.jpg (credit to whoever took photo)

I found one pure black beetle and the other 4 have been very similar to the above picture, with lines and 2 spots of yellowish.

Sad news, the horizontal growth sprout has died. Found the seed and root shriveled up. All is well tho, I didn't even expect to get 5 this far.

Besides this issue I can't complain. Sorted out my temps, 2 fans and the exhaust fan keep the temp at a solid 77-80. Depending on the day I can keep the exhaust off and still have it around 78, although that won't be happening for very long, summer is coming and it gets fairly hot in southern Ontario.

Got some pictures, I'm using bread clips to hold the stems up while the stretch is repaired.

 

[TanR]

The Soviet,

Your lucky to have a hydro store near by! So sorry to hear about the sprout, but I like your positive attitude about the other girls. Would be very interested to hear what solution you come up with for the flea beetles.

 

[TheSoviet]

So after a ton of reading on different bugs I've come to the conclusion that I don't have flea beetles, Instead they are carpet beetles. Or at least I believe I do. It's hard to tell, they both look quite similar in my opinion. The horrific news is I believe I have spider mites. I see little brown mite like creatures crawling on my girls. The beetles haven't actually been on my plants or in the soil(from what I can tell) they are just lounging around under the trays. I'm going to the hydro shop to buy spider mite begone. I truly hate these insects, with a passion. I'm all for conquering a problem but it's so hard to identify the little bastards. I still have doubt if they are spider mites, brown backs, tiny legs, most definitely some sort of mite.

Trying to figure out this camera, goal is to take super close ups, which it's capable of, I just don't know how. Cannon is unfortunately closed on weekends, so I'll be posting proper pictures ASAP. Instruction manuals aren't what they used to be.

 

[TheSoviet]

So I got some spider mite stuff from hydroshop. But this morning I turn the lights on to find one of my plants have taken a 360. I've been watering them all evenly and they all look fantastic in my opinion other then this girl.

I thought about over/under watering but non of the other plants are drooping at all, they seem healthy to me. The light distance is about 2 feet away, no other plant is suffering it seems, no burn marks on any of the plants.

Water is PH'd sitting around 6.6-6.8PH

Any help is appreciated. On the bright side I haven't seen any bugs since my last post, I have no idea what happened to the mites, however if they show up with webs and leaf damage I am ready for it.

 

[TheSoviet]

I raised the light, gave them a bit more water. I don't see how in the world they are under watered I give them water every day(still using a spray bottle) Something had to change the plant wasn't recovering from the water like others did for example on youtube, the plants perk up very quickly.

I guess I gotta learn the hard way, hopefully the damage can be undone.

Edit. The situation doesn't make a damn bit of sense. This plant is in the same enviorment, same strain and yet it's doing well(from what I can tell).

It's taller and didn't have any issue with the light distance and basically got the same amount of water.