The Mountain: Grow Support From The Over 50 Club

Heres the creek with Bride of Holler fishing in her kayak

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...a spin off thread for us old farts to help out whipper snapper growers with any grow or life issues they might have.
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Oh looky here comes a young whipper snapper now. Nice to see you around again Uptheholler. Maybe this question will interest you. I know you did a little grafting. I don't remember how much, but maybe you can answer a theoretical sort of question for me. Or maybe not but it's worth a try. (Lots of maybes here).
I was just goofing around and experimenting with grafting living plants by splicing them together. After a week and a bit I would cut them free. I made a couple of these three-sativa plants. One of them, the rootstock, is a strain called Panama, which I've never grown before, but have just now found out needs feeding levels nearly twice as high as the other two strains I grafted on. Whoops. Till now all the pure sativas I've grown have liked the same low levels of nutrients, so hence the fatal assumption.
Anyway- so this is just for fun so it's ok if it crashes and burns.

But this is the situation. I have a Panama plant as rootstock, though it also has foliage, and then the two lighter feeding strains grafted on. Like this.


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I hear that the plants tend to take on a bit of each other's genetics or at least there is some sort of mingling. I'm wondering what will happen in this situation- if the feeding needs will equalize somewhat, or... not.

I also have the option of chopping off the Panama head and leaving the other two, but since they're on a Panama stalk and root system, maybe it makes no difference.

The bandaids have only been off for a couple days and they/it is growing happily so far, as if they have no idea about their strange situation and probable impeding trainwreck.
Any thoughts on this situation? Thanks.
 
Hey Weasel hows one of the funniest guys on this site doing? It looks like you have some fun projects going on. Now to your great question about grafting. This is an easier situation to explain than the wild grafting ride that LA is having fun with. As far as feeding is concerned the plants grafted onto a heavy sativa feeder like a Panama line should indeed be able to handle that heavier feeding schedule. With grafted tomatoes which are not unlike weed in production it certainly is the case. You didnt let me know what you grafted on as scions. But things you might expect to happen lets say if they were indica or indica cross scions grafted to a sativa root stock is as follows....
- A longer flower ripening period
- An increased resistance to mites which tend in most grow rooms to like indicas better because of the larger leaf surface area to escape to lights and the stronger smell earlier in the growth cycle.
- You may also not differences in water uptake .

Things like this will be the most noticible. And old farm hand like you know those early digns of over feeding...its really a feel thing...the attention to small details. Grafting is kind of like breeding in that I encourage folks to keep in mind set goals in their grafting projects. It maybe to create a multi variety mother plant. It maybe to graft a super potent but weak growing long flowering variety unto a robust quick growing root stock. Of course it can always be like why I used to like to climb trees when I was kid ....because the tree was there...I was there...and I thought it would be cool!!

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I should also have mentioned,( I know" Holler how could you fail to mention something on such a long post?") That the root stock is generally the driver of the grafting truck. When you find a variety with good strong growing characteristics, one that callouses over quickly and as good disease and pest resistance. Its as valuable a plantvas finding a desirable male or female parent in a breeding project hold onto it!

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Thank you kindly for your reply. The names of the strains are on the photo next to their relevant potion of the foliage.
To spice things up a bit here is part of an email I just received from the breeder of two of these strains explaining their different needs. Which I already kind of explained but wtf.


Yes, Malawi and Thais need much lesser EC levels than Panama,
Malawi and pure Thais usually work well around 0.6 EC (with soft N for the whole cycle),
although some Malawi phenos can accept higher levels of nutrientes (of around 1-1.2 EC) especially in the last 2/3 of flowering.

Panama needs really high levels of nutrientes for both macro NPK and micronutrients, an EC around 1.2-1.8 is recommended for their flowering.
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I question his actual EC numbers cause they seem weird to me, and he's an organic soil grower so may be not much of an EC guy, but the relative rates are all that matter.


Your post is very encouraging then. Thank you. I'll push the levels up a notch and see if the two scion strains freak out.
It's hard trying to compute this situation, to decide what is actually happening in the plant and which part contains the brain which makes the decisions on how much feed it wants, etc. The roots? Or simply whichever strain gets the biggest portion. I think the first one, by the sounds of it.

I was told yesterday that it's standard procedure to remove the upper part of the rootstock strain and that somehow it might be bad to leave that on (the upper stem and foliage of the Panama) (?)


Edit - ok I've fallen a few posts behind typing this and you've answered most of my question already.Thanks! :thumb:
 
uptheholler2 said:
Ok Beav Ill bite... Whats a Mamapanawawi? ( Man Im glad I never got that word in the spelling bee when I was a kid)

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Weaselcracker labeled the 3 different strains he grafted so thats part of the name of each strain combined. I should have included his pic in my reply.

The pic of your bride floating on the water gives me hope, we have ice out front for another month or so.
 
Oh geez. I was getting confused. Thought you were speaking Hawaiian. Like- do they really have beavers in Hawaii??
I was thinking something like Panamamamalawi.
Alright. Goodnight.
 
Yeah I dont leave any leaves or stems on the rootstock. Remember that EC levels are highly speculative in soil grows. You haves things to consider based upon your soil mix, moisture levels grow room temps. For example if your mix has a higher amount of undecomposed organic matter , the soil is fairly dry, or the grow room is running cool. Then guess what the nutrients may not be available to the plant and the drier cooler conditions means the plant is not in an environment where it can make use of it. This is one of the reasons that I counsel new growers to first go the soil grow route much more forgiving. You have options to correct even big screw ups. I would be much more concerned about ec numbers in a hydro set up. Also dont think so much in terms of actual genetic transfers in a grafting situation. Its more of a growth habit physical changes within the plant. If you were to seed out the tops of 2 identically grafted specimens with the exact same pollen from the same plant... almost all of the pheno characteristics that you would find would be based upon the physical cross not upon the graft. For example if I grew out seed from my grafted apple trees I would not expect them to grow out as dwarfs with the cold hardiness of the root stock. They would grow out as standard varieties of the scion and the pollinators. Wow! Total college day flashback.... WAKE UP WEASEL!!!! Lets go drive around and burn one then go to the bar and shoot some pool!!

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Thought Id share a picture of 2 identical plants. Both are Starfighter f2 x Longbottomleaf
Germinated on the same day. Both were transplanted to 3 gallon pots exactly 9 days ago when they had their first true leaves and the second set was just forming. Both were transplanted into a Charlies compost and Promix combination soil mix. Both were watered in using collected rainwater with Superthrive. The plant on the left was fertilized wit Perdue Agri Micro 60 the plant on the right was fed Millers 20-20-20 at a little above half strength. I have no dog in this fight but I continue to be impressed by the results at such a low cost. Best of luck in all you grow!
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uptheholler2 said:
I thought that you all might like to see a couple of views of The Mountain just so you folks can get an idea of what I wake up to each day
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..I'm envious! Awesome to wake up to that..

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uptheholler2 said:
Thought Id share a picture of 2 identical plants. Both are Starfighter f2 x Longbottomleaf
Germinated on the same day. Both were transplanted to 3 gallon pots exactly 9 days ago when they had their first true leaves and the second set was just forming. Both were transplanted into a Charlies compost and Promix combination soil mix. Both were watered in using collected rainwater with Superthrive. The plant on the left was fertilized wit Perdue Agri Micro 60 the plant on the right was fed Millers 20-20-20 at a little above half strength. I have no dog in this fight but I continue to be impressed by the results at such a low cost. Best of luck in all you grow!
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Hello Upthehollar2! Im wondering how many oz of fluid do you use with a 3 gal pot? Im using about 64 oz but might reduce to 36 oz fluid to stay on schedule better. Great Day!!
 
Also while I have a minute I wanted to let you know how my Structural Insulated Panel grow room is doing. In a word outstanding. Again low cost construction is the watch word with me. The panels are 80 by 22 inches and are around 6 bucks each . I use self tapping button screws to hold them together. We had 28 degrees last night outside. I turned off the light at 8 and it was 80 in the room. Light came back on at 3 and the night time low was 60 degrees. Heres a couple of shots of the panels so you can get an idea of what they are.

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