TorturedSoul's EFDL - Flower - CFL - Vegetative - Grow

Introductory Post

And they said it would never happen. Look for the cold vaccine and interdimensional storage boxes to appear next week, lol.

Some of you may have noticed that I tend to be somewhat (lol) skeptical about most things and concepts. While some people live in the "Show Me" state, wherever I'm located becomes the "Give Me One So I Can Thrash It to Pieces" state. Well, not quite - but I do like to test things and find out for myself. So... I recently learned about EFDL (Electrode-less Frequency Discharge Lamps) from one of Envirotech's posts. I asked for the chance to try one for myself. I have been given that chance and was asked only that I journal the test and report honestly.

Additionally, I have been sent two "rosebud" style 105-watt CFL bulbs to use during the vegetative phase. These are also new to me. I have read about and used smaller CFLs in the past for various things. But I have shied away from higher-wattage versions. They aren't available in spiral form (AfaIK) and the closely-spaced straight tubes on them would seem to be very inefficient because a large portion of the illumination they produce shines inward towards the center of the bulb instead of outward. It turns out that someone had the same thoughts when they designed these CFLs. Their shape allows that "inner illumination" to escape. I've got a buddy that has used small CFLs in home lighting, small grows, and for lighting where he works in a large indoor/outdoor facility. He HATES the large ones where he works, lol. I recently told him that I was sent a couple of 105-watt CFLs to use in this grow - but didn't describe them - and he replied, "That's nice." Last night I showed one of them to him and his reply was, "WOW!!" I hope to use these as my primary vegetative lighting. As I have not used them before, that is tentative at this point. I guess we'll figure that out together.

I have some small-wattage CFLs that I'll be using at the beginning when the plants are getting established. I may continue to use them as secondary lighting as the plants grow or I might stick them back in my reading lamps, lol. To be determined.

Both the two rosebud CFLs and the EFDL are called PAR lamps because they are said to produce their illumination in the portions of the spectrum that plants can use. PAR stands for photosynthetic active radiation, I believe.

I will be growing three strains in this grow. They are Nirvana's Snow White, AK-48, and Royal Flush. That should give me a mostly indica, a mostly sativa, and a more "middle of the road" hybrid. It will also give me a few headaches, lol, as I expect that they will have different growth rates, nutrient requirements, and flowering times. These strains all look interesting.

At least one strain will be grown in DWC. One or more of them may be grown in a perlite/vermiculite/"soil" mix. To be determined.

Nutrients will primarily be General Hydroponics three-part Flora nutrients with a few of GH's supplements. There may be some additional products/brands used. If so, they will be noted.

Make no mistake - this is a poor man's grow. Aside from plant-limits, money is very much a limiting factor. In a way, this is a good thing: It means that I will not be using exotic nutrients or expensive devices to help "weight" my grow/test. Whatever results I achieve with the EFDL light, you should be able to easily achieve them using the same inexpensive and readily-available nutrients (et cetera). Think of it as a benchmark grow instead of an ultimate maximum-possibly one that might yield higher numbers by using components that many growers and prospective growers might feel is not within their budget. It annoys me when I look at a product (of any type) and the tests that I can find only show it under best-case conditions.

[EDIT: Audience input, helpful suggestions, questions, and criticism is both allowed and appreciated. I don't even mind the occasional argument - err... I mean spirited debate, lol as long as all participants remember that while it is acceptable to disagree with a member or to debate his/her ideas/position, it is NOT acceptable to attack or insult another member. Please follow the guidelines of this site, be courteous, and - where possible - use common-sense. (Thanks!)]
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Lights

This grow is primarily a means for me to test Envirotech's EFDL fluorescent flowering light. But during the vegetative phase of the grow, I'll be using two of their rosebud-style CFLs. As they are in a wattage and a shape that I have not used before, it is also a chance for me to test them. I think you'll agree that they are different than the usual CFLs.

Here is a picture of ET's "old" EFDL light. I refer to it as an old one because the new one will have some supplemental LEDs in it to enhance the spectral profile and hopefully to make it an even better flowering light. I have not received it yet because it is still in the finishing stages and because I do not truly need it at this point. But this picture will give you some idea:
parmax_300_efdl.JPG

The silver things clamped around the light are external electromagnets that actually cause the bulb to illuminate. There is no actual electrode inside the bulb itself - Thus the term "electrode-less" in Electrode-less Frequency Discharge Lamp, or EFDL.

And here is a picture of one of the rosebud CFL lights, with a standard household CFL for comparison:
Parmax_rosebud.JPG

Both the EFDL and the CFLs are considered to be PAR lights. That is to say that they produce the bulk of their illumination in portions of the spectrum that plants can use. The CFLs I'll be using are rated at 6400K as they are for vegetative growth (ones intended for flowering are also available). The EFDL I'll be using will be either a 2700K or 2100K type, depending on which produces more illumination in the PAR range.

A note about PAR: I do not have a Quantum light meter ($), but I downloaded the manual to one of their meters when I learned that it would be used to help determine which EFDL bulb should be best. In that manual, I read that the human eye perceives light of approximately 560nm most strongly, with perception half that (given the same absolute illumination values) at 500nm and 600nm. Therefore, judging lights by what "looks" brightest and even by traditional lumen/lux/luminous flux readings is not the best way to judge the light's proficiency as a grow light. Those readings are heavily-weighted as well, giving higher readings in the range that our eyes (mistakenly) "see" as being brighter.

I'd like to thank Envirotech for giving me the opportunity to test their lights and for loaning me an EFDL to do the test with. Again, the only requirement was that I do the test in this journal and that I am honest in my reporting. Had it been otherwise, I would not be doing the test grow.
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Strains

I will be working with three strains in this grow. All three of them come from Nirvana Shop. I explained to them that I was looking for three strains with different characteristics - a mostly indica, a mostly sativa, and something in between. This, I thought, would give me a range of growth traits which would not only be helpful in finding how well the EFDL light performs (think: penetration) but would also hopefully have more of a chance to let members here see a strain that is closer in its characteristics to one that they grow.

I wish to thank all the people at Nirvana and Mary in particular. They didn't treat me like a customer. Not even like a friend. They treated me like family! To clarify, when I learned I would be doing this test grow, I had planned on using a couple of other strains that I had available. Due to a couple of issues (including the fact that wherever I hid them, I hid them quite well, lol), that was not possible and it left me in the rather embarrassing position of getting to do a grow and not having anything TO grow. I therefore contacted Nirvana. They were not only helpful and fast during what is probably their busiest time of year and is definitely the busiest shipping time of the year, they picked out the strains for me. How's that for service? I just let them know what I was looking for in the way of strains.

Here is a quote:

Indica: 5 feminised Snow White
A White Widow-related indica-dominant strain with a nice sweet scent
and taste.

Hybrid: 5 feminised AK-48
This is one of our most popular strains ever, a really nice
indica/sativa mix. Harvesting slightly early makes for a more
pronounced sativa head high, harvesting when properly ripened will
result in a good mix of high/stone.

Sativa: 5 feminised Royal Flush
One of my colleagues grew this last Summer. Really lovely!

Further information from Nirvana's site:

Snow White: Nirvana's Snow White is one of our top-notch selections from the "white" marijuana seeds family. Her pure Cannabis Indica father gives Snow White a denser stature than close relative White Widow, making this F1 hybrid a big yielder indeed. Its plants bear dense sticky buds covered in trichomes. These marijuana seeds are well suited to cultivation in hydro or similar systems. With its lovely smooth taste and powerful Indica stone, Snow White is one of the nicest Widow variations available. Flowering time is listed as 8-10 weeks and height is listed as medium.

AK-48: Our AK-48 is one of the strongest early-finishing strains available anywhere. Plants produce hard buds with an exceptional and penetrating aroma. Although AK-48 is a Cannabis Indica/Sativa hybrid, its effect tends toward the 'high' commonly produced by Sativas. Although most marijuana growers will opt for a longer vegetative period to improve taste, under perfect conditions, AK-48 may finish in as few as 48 days. Flowering time is listed as 7-9 weeks and height is listed as medium.

Royal Flush: Nirvana's Royal Flush is an F1 marijuana hybrid of Jock Horror and an Eldorado from Oaxaca in Mexico. Seeds from this variety grow into tall and lanky marijuana plants, with plenty of budding sites. Royal Flush has a unique sweet-and-sour flavour that will leave you smacking your lips, and its buzz is energetic and uplifting. Flowering time is listed as 10-12 weeks and height is listed as tall.
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Oh i'm here for sure!

Welcome and thanks for visiting.

Pictures will be forthcoming as something happens to be worth taking one. At this point there is no reason as they are simply seeds in damp paper towels.
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

hello TS, that rosebud CFL light is huge!! some good strains u got there. i was thinkin of trying out the swiss cheese from nirvana. itll be great seeing your grow. have u used nirvana seeds before? have they got a good percentage rate?
good luck
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Hey TorturedSoul, nice thread! I will be keepin an eye on this one for sure. I cant wait to see some pics of the little guys!! By the way, where did you locate that rosebud CFL?? I am currently in the beginning stages of a CFL grow and that thing is EXACTLY what i need lol.
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Holy crap I had to check the title twice... I thought I was dreaming for a minute...... I was not sure if you were ever going to get one of these going.... It makes me happy to see this.... I know it will be a good one, Consider me in.... I may not say much, but I'll be watching.... :slide:
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow


Hi, staffy. Thanks for stopping by.

that rosebud CFL light is huge!!

Yeah, they're pretty substantial, lol. I've already looked at one of them (literally) while it was running. I thought, "Huh. That doesn't look as bright as I expected." And then I walked out of the other room and was half-blind from the big black spot in my vision:rofl:. I'm not sure, but I suspect that it has something to do with the fact that these are PAR lights for plants and not "area" lights for people. IOW, my eyes and brain did not perceive the light to be as bright as it actually IS, but the physiological affects were the same as looking at any really bright light and then looking away and trying not to stumble over the furniture.

some good strains u got there. i was thinkin of trying out the swiss cheese from nirvana. itll be great seeing your grow. have u used nirvana seeds before? have they got a good percentage rate?
good luck

This is be my first time with them. I have heard/read many positive things about them. One of the things that I've often read is that their low prices are misleading - they exhibit a level of customer service that you'd expect from places that price their products much higher. I could tell from communicating with them that they really care about what they're doing.
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Holy crap I had to check the title twice... I thought I was dreaming for a minute...... I was not sure if you were ever going to get one of these going....

Uhh... Yeah, go figure. Neither was I.

It makes me happy to see this.... I know it will be a good one, Consider me in.... I may not say much, but I'll be watching.... :slide:

Thanks. I hope I do not disappoint.
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Hey TorturedSoul, nice thread! I will be keepin an eye on this one for sure. I cant wait to see some pics of the little guys!! By the way, where did you locate that rosebud CFL?? I am currently in the beginning stages of a CFL grow and that thing is EXACTLY what i need lol.

Thanks for visiting, guys. Yeah, the technology caught my interest. I got the CFLs from Envirotech. There are larger wattages available than the 105-watt ones that I have. But this is the largest size, AfaIK, that will screw into a common medium (household) socket and I had those types of sockets already. The higher-wattage bulbs require a mogul socket and I don't have any of them right now. Those sockets aren't expensive, but - it's all relative and I did mention that I'm poor. And not "Gee, I don't want to go to that new restaurant until one of my friends try it so I don't take a chance on wasting my money" poor, lol. I'll go to Taco Bell once in a great while and order a bean burrito or whatever they have that's cheapest but only so I can load up on packets of fire sauce. Bread sandwiches suck. Fire sauce sandwiches suck too, but they're easier to eat.
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Yea thats exactly what i need. I have those clamp on fixtures you get from ho dep an stuff so that would work perfectly. Thanks for the reply, nobody would tell me where to get them!! Lol i appreciate it.
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Hi, staffy. Thanks for stopping by.



Yeah, they're pretty substantial, lol. I've already looked at one of them (literally) while it was running. I thought, "Huh. That doesn't look as bright as I expected." And then I walked out of the other room and was half-blind from the big black spot in my vision:rofl:. I'm not sure, but I suspect that it has something to do with the fact that these are PAR lights for plants and not "area" lights for people. IOW, my eyes and brain did not perceive the light to be as bright as it actually IS, but the physiological affects were the same as looking at any really bright light and then looking away and trying not to stumble over the furniture.



This is be my first time with them. I have heard/read many positive things about them. One of the things that I've often read is that their low prices are misleading - they exhibit a level of customer service that you'd expect from places that price their products much higher. I could tell from communicating with them that they really care about what they're doing.

lol, i bet that thing could do some damages, is this your first time using one?

well it will be interesting to see ur babies. tha6t good that they sound like they care. i would be a lil worried if i talked to a guy and didnt know much and wasnt interested in what he was doin. thanks bro and good luck
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

hey ts cutting edge i must have missed those
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Hi TS,
Glad to see you start a journal(bout time).I've enjoyed your post for the last year, i'm sure that it will be honest and through .

I harvested ak48 and bubbilious, both from Nirvana,I've used their seeds for a year and have had 100% germination and the femd seed were female.

I'm in :tokin:

HH
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

Ok, maybe I do, but I shouldn't.

;)

Its OK SS, we all do sometimes...



TS Im loking forward to seeing whatr these PAR lights can do for you and how you like em. Keep it going man
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

What wattage and kelvin EFDL is that you're using? 500 mm at 24" away from the canopy will get the best results. depending on the wattage that's what you should get.


Lights

This grow is primarily a means for me to test Envirotech's EFDL fluorescent flowering light. But during the vegetative phase of the grow, I'll be using two of their rosebud-style CFLs. As they are in a wattage and a shape that I have not used before, it is also a chance for me to test them. I think you'll agree that they are different than the usual CFLs.

Here is a picture of ET's "old" EFDL light. I refer to it as an old one because the new one will have some supplemental LEDs in it to enhance the spectral profile and hopefully to make it an even better flowering light. I have not received it yet because it is still in the finishing stages and because I do not truly need it at this point. But this picture will give you some idea:
parmax_300_efdl.JPG

The silver things clamped around the light are external electromagnets that actually cause the bulb to illuminate. There is no actual electrode inside the bulb itself - Thus the term "electrode-less" in Electrode-less Frequency Discharge Lamp, or EFDL.

And here is a picture of one of the rosebud CFL lights, with a standard household CFL for comparison:
Parmax_rosebud.JPG

Both the EFDL and the CFLs are considered to be PAR lights. That is to say that they produce the bulk of their illumination in portions of the spectrum that plants can use. The CFLs I'll be using are rated at 6400K as they are for vegetative growth (ones intended for flowering are also available). The EFDL I'll be using will be either a 2700K or 2100K type, depending on which produces more illumination in the PAR range.

A note about PAR: I do not have a Quantum light meter ($), but I downloaded the manual to one of their meters when I learned that it would be used to help determine which EFDL bulb should be best. In that manual, I read that the human eye perceives light of approximately 560nm most strongly, with perception half that (given the same absolute illumination values) at 500nm and 600nm. Therefore, judging lights by what "looks" brightest and even by traditional lumen/lux/luminous flux readings is not the best way to judge the light's proficiency as a grow light. Those readings are heavily-weighted as well, giving higher readings in the range that our eyes (mistakenly) "see" as being brighter.

I'd like to thank Envirotech for giving me the opportunity to test their lights and for loaning me an EFDL to do the test with. Again, the only requirement was that I do the test in this journal and that I am honest in my reporting. Had it been otherwise, I would not be doing the test grow.
 
Re: TorturedSoul's EFDL (Flower) CFL (Vegetative) Grow

This is probably something you're already aware of but what the hell. When setting up the CFL lamps I presume they are always mounted base up.

Working mostly with EFDL systems CFL is not something I have much experience with, particularly in a grow environment. But when setting up for the CFL's it would seem horizontal mounting of an integrated ballast, multiple circular tube arrays on a CFL lamp is best avoided.

The lamps create their own problems in that light from the lamps nearest the reflector are partially blocked from the tube density beneath them and bounced from the rear array into the reflector and back at the lamps unless the reflector is specifically designed for horizontal mounting distribution.

I trust this grow will be a positive experience for you and look forward to it's success.:cheer:










Introductory Post

And they said it would never happen. Look for the cold vaccine and interdimensional storage boxes to appear next week, lol.

Some of you may have noticed that I tend to be somewhat (lol) skeptical about most things and concepts. While some people live in the "Show Me" state, wherever I'm located becomes the "Give Me One So I Can Thrash It to Pieces" state. Well, not quite - but I do like to test things and find out for myself. So... I recently learned about EFDL (Electrode-less Frequency Discharge Lamps) from one of Envirotech's posts. I asked for the chance to try one for myself. I have been given that chance and was asked only that I journal the test and report honestly.

Additionally, I have been sent two "rosebud" style 105-watt CFL bulbs to use during the vegetative phase. These are also new to me. I have read about and used smaller CFLs in the past for various things. But I have shied away from higher-wattage versions. They aren't available in spiral form (AfaIK) and the closely-spaced straight tubes on them would seem to be very inefficient because a large portion of the illumination they produce shines inward towards the center of the bulb instead of outward. It turns out that someone had the same thoughts when they designed these CFLs. Their shape allows that "inner illumination" to escape. I've got a buddy that has used small CFLs in home lighting, small grows, and for lighting where he works in a large indoor/outdoor facility. He HATES the large ones where he works, lol. I recently told him that I was sent a couple of 105-watt CFLs to use in this grow - but didn't describe them - and he replied, "That's nice." Last night I showed one of them to him and his reply was, "WOW!!" I hope to use these as my primary vegetative lighting. As I have not used them before, that is tentative at this point. I guess we'll figure that out together.

I have some small-wattage CFLs that I'll be using at the beginning when the plants are getting established. I may continue to use them as secondary lighting as the plants grow or I might stick them back in my reading lamps, lol. To be determined.

Both the two rosebud CFLs and the EFDL are called PAR lamps because they are said to produce their illumination in the portions of the spectrum that plants can use. PAR stands for photosynthetic active radiation, I believe.

I will be growing three strains in this grow. They are Nirvana's Snow White, AK-48, and Royal Flush. That should give me a mostly indica, a mostly sativa, and a more "middle of the road" hybrid. It will also give me a few headaches, lol, as I expect that they will have different growth rates, nutrient requirements, and flowering times. These strains all look interesting.

At least one strain will be grown in DWC. One or more of them may be grown in a perlite/vermiculite/"soil" mix. To be determined.

Nutrients will primarily be General Hydroponics three-part Flora nutrients with a few of GH's supplements. There may be some additional products/brands used. If so, they will be noted.

Make no mistake - this is a poor man's grow. Aside from plant-limits, money is very much a limiting factor. In a way, this is a good thing: It means that I will not be using exotic nutrients or expensive devices to help "weight" my grow/test. Whatever results I achieve with the EFDL light, you should be able to easily achieve them using the same inexpensive and readily-available nutrients (et cetera). Think of it as a benchmark grow instead of an ultimate maximum-possibly one that might yield higher numbers by using components that many growers and prospective growers might feel is not within their budget. It annoys me when I look at a product (of any type) and the tests that I can find only show it under best-case conditions.

[EDIT: Audience input, helpful suggestions, questions, and criticism is both allowed and appreciated. I don't even mind the occasional argument - err... I mean spirited debate, lol as long as all participants remember that while it is acceptable to disagree with a member or to debate his/her ideas/position, it is NOT acceptable to attack or insult another member. Please follow the guidelines of this site, be courteous, and - where possible - use common-sense. (Thanks!)]
 
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