What’s needed to finish these girls?

[cbdhemp808]

It’s just hard to believe they are all the same strain…..the difference is extreme.

Plants from seed often have a lot of variability as you are experiencing. The plants are showing their phenotypes, which boils down to genetic variation. Different phenotypes react differently to their environment. Seed lines that have a lot of genetic stability will have more uniform phenotypes, and this is achieved by expert breeding practices. I am currently growing clones of three phenotypes (aka "phenos") of a particular CBD strain, and they are all very different. One in particular looks like a completely different strain. There's so much to say about phenos, but I'll just say that it's a lot of fun to select the best ones and to propagate them by cloning. The big cannabis breeders will do "pheno hunting," looking among hundreds or thousands of plants for those exceptional variations that are best for their breeding project, to arrive at whatever traits they are looking for.

The trichs are at the same point on all 3, so I’m gonna give them all one more week and harvest the 2 for sure, and all 3 possibly.

If your trichomes are 75% milky, then one more week might be too long. I'd check every couple of days, and also keep a close eye on possible development of powdery mold on leaf surfaces, and also signs of bud rot. I'm also concerned about those dying leaves in the buds – very bad. I've found that bud rot often starts in the upper half or tip of a nice big bud, and I'll clip that off keeping the rest of the bud below. This is often a sign that you'll have to harvest very soon, not waiting days. I've also seen bud rot set in like a wave, starting with infected stigmas, and then – poof – all your buds are basically ruined. That's why I was telling you to just harvest now. Lastly, you can use a hydrogen peroxide solution to help ward off the mold/rot. I use 16 to 20 tbsp 3% peroxide in 1/2 gal. of distilled water, spray liberally all over top and bottom of leaves and buds (20 tbsp is 6 fl oz).

Good luck!

 

[Makeminefullgrown]

Thank you so much for sharing such valuable info. I’m trying to soak up as much legitimate knowledge as I can in a short period of time.
As for the bud rot….that does concern me and I’ve tried to keep my rh around 40% with a good flow of air all around the plants. I know it can still happen and the dying leaves are a perfect breeding ground. I’m trying to look at the sugar leaves and make sure the bottom (where it grows out of the bud) is still somewhat alive. Once it looks to be dead where it begins to touch the bud I clip it. This is time consuming though and it appears that bud rot can take over very quickly.
The peroxide solution is an option that I may try. Should I do it at any particular time of the plant’s light cycle?
Also, would a light misting work or should it be a drenching ?
Thanks again, and please share anything you like. I have a good nose for separating the anecdotal bro-science from fact based info. And everything you’ve said passes the sniff test. Lol.

 

[Roy Growin]

Thank you so much for sharing such valuable info. I’m trying to soak up as much legitimate knowledge as I can in a short period of time.
As for the bud rot….that does concern me and I’ve tried to keep my rh around 40% with a good flow of air all around the plants. I know it can still happen and the dying leaves are a perfect breeding ground. I’m trying to look at the sugar leaves and make sure the bottom (where it grows out of the bud) is still somewhat alive. Once it looks to be dead where it begins to touch the bud I clip it. This is time consuming though and it appears that bud rot can take over very quickly.
The peroxide solution is an option that I may try. Should I do it at any particular time of the plant’s light cycle?
Also, would a light misting work or should it be a drenching ?
Thanks again, and please share anything you like. I have a good nose for separating the anecdotal bro-science from fact based info. And everything you’ve said passes the sniff test. Lol.

You can give it a thorough soaking (some folk dunk the entire plant) at lights on, with a fan to dry it before lights out
You might want to adjust the lights down while she's wet to avoid scorching
First sign of rot to me is when the leaf stem withers like it's soggy rather than just wilting and brown at the base of sugar leaves

 

[Makeminefullgrown]

You can give it a thorough soaking (some folk dunk the entire plant) at lights on, with a fan to dry it before lights out
You might want to adjust the lights down while she's wet to avoid scorching
First sign of rot to me is when the leaf stem withers like it's soggy rather than just wilting and brown at the base of sugar leaves

Gotcha. I tell ya I’m about ready to chop these plants, wash the dog hair (I have a golden retriever that sheds like crazy) off and begin the dry and cure. Just when I think it can’t get any more puzzling I’m thrown another curveball. Let’s see if you can explain this one: So for the past 3 weeks or so the buds have just not progressed….more so with one plant in particular. Even before I gave the ill-advised defoliation, things had slowed to a halt. Just after the defoliation I noticed some heavy salt stains around the bottom sides of my fabric pots. So I get the idea stuck in my head that I’ve got some sort of nutrient lockout. It made sense at the time and still does. So when watering time came I decided to give a mini flush. I’d never flushed before and I’ve been told to pay no attention to runoff with Ocean Forest soil. I understand it’s heavily amended but this Ocean Forest has been in action for 15 weeks…..I assume it’s long ago depleted any and all amendments.
Anyway, i gave plain water and did it slowly. After about a gallon per plant the runoff started. They’re in 3 gal pots by the way. The catch tray filled up the first time and it read between 1400-1550ppm for the 3 plants. I waited about 15 min and started again….the trays filled and the readings were 800-850ppm. I should have kept going but I didn’t. I hoped the drill would break up any salt buildup and enable the plants to uptake any new nutes.
This is where things get strange. 2 of the 3 plants dried out much quicker and i watered/fed them this morning.
I gave them a very light dose of Tiger Bloom and a dose of Recharge. I measured before and the ppm was 440…..of which my tap water is around 145ppm. I slowly gave each plant around 2/3 gal and ended up with some runoff. I tested it for both plants and it was 1150 and 1293……wtf? How can that be? My testing device is accurate…..I already went through that drill. I just don’t understand and I don’t know if I’ll be using Ocean Forest again. Some strange things happening in that mix……
What do u make of it.??

 

[Roy Growin]

Complicated - agree, that is a strange medium I'd say, nobody knows exactly what's in it
Mixing soil and bottled nutes is a very fine balancing act and once you start to wobble it's a slippery slope
I think a lot of people say flush 3 x the volume of the pot, so 9Gal each - perhaps when you took the 450 reading not enough salts had yet been dissolved and leached out
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but coco is so much easier
For now, I'd leave them alone and see what happens in the next couple of days

 

[cbdhemp808]

The peroxide solution is an option that I may try. Should I do it at any particular time of the plant’s light cycle?
Also, would a light misting work or should it be a drenching?

I use a 1/2 gal. pump sprayer, the kind from ACE hardware (I gave up on spray bottles). I adjust the nozzle to a fine mist/spray. I spray enough to cover all leaves top and bottom, and the buds. If I'm trying to prevent bud rot, I'll go over the buds a couple times at closer range. Regarding your indoor lighting, I don't have any experience with that since I'm an outdoor grower. So to be on the safe side, you could do it in your dark cycle, and make sure fans are running to provide good airflow.

 

[Makeminefullgrown]

Complicated - agree, that is a strange medium I'd say, nobody knows exactly what's in it
Mixing soil and bottled nutes is a very fine balancing act and once you start to wobble it's a slippery slope
I think a lot of people say flush 3 x the volume of the pot, so 9Gal each - perhaps when you took the 450 reading not enough salts had yet been dissolved and leached out
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but coco is so much easier
For now, I'd leave them alone and see what happens in the next couple of days

Without me asking something that will take a lot of your time to answer…..tell me don’t you have to water/feed coco multiple times a day at certain stages??
I’d love to give it a try and have control over what goes in. And I’m about as much of a homebody as anyone, so 95% of the time a daily maintenance call is not inconvenient. It just scares me that my full attention may be needed multiple times a day or the grow will go south…
I may be wrong about the frequency and hope I am. I’ve got some killer seeds that I wanna get going as soon as these girls wrap it up.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I use custom-made growing mix, including Down to Earth organic fertilizer (@ correct ratios), high-quality coco coir, perlite, and fresh worm compost. I also use a mainly nitrogen fert when watering. I've had great success with this... not monster buds, or giant yeilds, but healthy plants and good harvest from 15 gal. smart pots.

 

[Roy Growin]

Without me asking something that will take a lot of your time to answer…..tell me don’t you have to water/feed coco multiple times a day at certain stages??
I’d love to give it a try and have control over what goes in. And I’m about as much of a homebody as anyone, so 95% of the time a daily maintenance call is not inconvenient. It just scares me that my full attention may be needed multiple times a day or the grow will go south…
I may be wrong about the frequency and hope I am. I’ve got some killer seeds that I wanna get going as soon as these girls wrap it up.

I have never had to water more than once per day but I suppose that would depend on the size of pot/size of plant ratio
Getting the watering regime right in a very forgiving medium is an awful lot easier than trying to second guess wtf is going on with your roots/nutes etc
It's really a matter of thinking through exactly which method best suits you

 

[Makeminefullgrown]

I have never had to water more than once per day but I suppose that would depend on the size of pot/size of plant ratio
Getting the watering regime right in a very forgiving medium is an awful lot easier than trying to second guess wtf is going on with your roots/nutes etc
It's really a matter of thinking through exactly which method best suits you

I’d seriously like to give it a try. Do you use synthetic bottled nutes or top dress w/ organic ? I’ve seen great grows where the coco is amended w/ dry nutes (that are time release) and then only a couple top dressings and an occasional tea is all that was needed. I could get behind a plan like that.

 

[Roy Growin]

I’d seriously like to give it a try. Do you use synthetic bottled nutes or top dress w/ organic ? I’ve seen great grows where the coco is amended w/ dry nutes (that are time release) and then only a couple top dressings and an occasional tea is all that was needed. I could get behind a plan like that.

I use Bio for seedlings, then Coco A & B after 2-3 weeks with, as you say, an occasional tea

 

[SmokingWings]

This is where things get strange. 2 of the 3 plants dried out much quicker and i watered/fed them this morning.
I gave them a very light dose of Tiger Bloom and a dose of Recharge. I measured before and the ppm was 440…..of which my tap water is around 145ppm. I slowly gave each plant around 2/3 gal and ended up with some runoff. I tested it for both plants and it was 1150 and 1293……wtf? How can that be? My testing device is accurate…..I already went through that drill. I just don’t understand and I don’t know if I’ll be using Ocean Forest again. Some strange things happening in that mix……
What do u make of it.??

What happens is that when we put "around 2/3 gallon" into the soil mix and get "some" runoff we will have to put in the exact same amount of water and get the same amount of run-off to use for checking. Otherwise all the PPM numbers are approximate.

The first time we pour the water in it will dissolve some of the minerals and salts and the excess water comes out the bottom of the pot. If we pour more water into the pot of soil within a few minutes or even a few hours the water goes through the soil and dissolves more salts AND picks up salts that were dissolved by the first batch of water but did not make it all the way out of the pot. So now the result is we have a higher PPM number.

Continue to do this for a few more times and eventually the numbers should start to do down. This is where 'flushing' comes into play; where all the salts in the hydro mix or the soil mix have been dissolved and flushed out of the grow medium and we can start over as far as amounts and types of amendments and/or fertilizers that can be used.

Nothing wrong with the Ocean Forest since it is doing what it was intended to do.

 

[SmokingWings]

Complicated - agree, that is a strange medium I'd say, nobody knows exactly what's in it

Yes we do . From the Fox Farm web page on Ocean Forest...

Ocean Forest® Potting Soil

Our most popular potting soil, Ocean Forest® is a powerhouse blend of aged forest products, sphagnum peat moss, earthworm castings, bat guano, fish emulsion, and crab meal.

Aged forest products, sandy loam, and sphagnum peat moss give Ocean Forest® its light, aerated texture. Start with Ocean Forest® and watch your plants come alive!

Garden tip: Designed for containers and ready to use right out of the bag. There’s no need for nitrogen fertilizers at first; instead try FoxFarm Big Bloom® Liquid Plant Food to get things started.

I do have to agree with you that most of us would not know what "Aged Forest Products" really are until we research that term.

And, I think the main reason that we see many growers have problems within 3 to 5 weeks with this soil mix is that they miss the paragraphs on the back of the bag that say the nutrients in the mix are generally only good for several weeks and by then they have been depleted. At that time the user has to start adding what has been depleted or has been missing to begin with.

 

[Makeminefullgrown]

Yes we do . From the Fox Farm web page on Ocean Forest...

Ocean Forest® Potting Soil

Our most popular potting soil, Ocean Forest® is a powerhouse blend of aged forest products, sphagnum peat moss, earthworm castings, bat guano, fish emulsion, and crab meal.

Aged forest products, sandy loam, and sphagnum peat moss give Ocean Forest® its light, aerated texture. Start with Ocean Forest® and watch your plants come alive!

Garden tip: Designed for containers and ready to use right out of the bag. There’s no need for nitrogen fertilizers at first; instead try FoxFarm Big Bloom® Liquid Plant Food to get things started.

I do have to agree with you that most of us would not know what "Aged Forest Products" really are until we research that term.

And, I think the main reason that we see many growers have problems within 3 to 5 weeks with this soil mix is that they miss the paragraphs on the back of the bag that say the nutrients in the mix are generally only good for several weeks and by then they have been depleted. At that time the user has to start adding what has been depleted or has been missing to begin with.

I fully know that my lack of understanding is the root of my problems. When I started my grow with ocean forest I figured after 3-4 weeks the plants would show some obvious deficiency and I’d begin a feeding program at that time. I didn’t know whether I was supposed to water to runoff or not. Sometimes I had a little leakage and other times not so much. I went a full 4-5 weeks and only supplied water and my plants did fine. I kept thinking that the amended nutes had to be depleted by now but the plants said otherwise.
Then I opened a huge can of worms when I bought a ppm/ec meter. It was around the 5 week mark and all I had ever added to plain water was some fish sh!t. The next time I watered and had some runoff. I stuck the meter in and it was some crazy high number like 3300ppm. I knew I hadn’t fed them anything and my water is only 140ppm. So where did all this come from?? I assumed the soil wasn’t depleted and treated it as such. I understand that the amendments are organic and not all available at that moment, but they were clearly in there….after 6 weeks.
Several more weeks went by and I decided to feed them just because….i was thinking the plants looked ok but maybe if I fed them they’d really take off.
Not knowing how much gas was in the tank confused me with how much to feed on my own. And I’m still confused.
The case is made that ocean forest has a 3 week carrying capacity. After that one needs to feed accordingly. And I would love it if it were true, but it’s not.
At the same time the above idea is being circulated, there are reputable growers on this site that can get through an entire grow with nothing but Ocean Forest. They may top dress a little more of the same Ocean Forest later in the grow, but that’s a far different mousetrap from a soil medium that supplements and supports for 3 weeks.
I love the concept of 3 weeks of nothing but water and the grower takes the wheel at that point. But again that’s not what I’ve experienced. When you’ve grown a plant for 6 weeks and given nothing but water, then get a 3300ppm runoff it make u scratch your head.
I now understand the flushing part and how I didn’t flush enough through the plant to dissolve everything.
Anyway, I’m not sure what medium I’ll use for my next grow….I have two unopened bags of ocean Forest so I’d like to use it. I’m still not sure the best way to go about growing in it though.
I’m all ears for any feedback and advice.
Thanks

 

[SmokingWings]

When I started my grow with ocean forest I figured after 3-4 weeks the plants would show some obvious deficiency and I’d begin a feeding program at that time. I didn’t know whether I was supposed to water to runoff or not. Sometimes I had a little leakage and other times not so much. I went a full 4-5 weeks and only supplied water and my plants did fine. I kept thinking that the amended nutes had to be depleted by now but the plants said otherwise.

I understand that 'cause it sounds like what I went through. I built my soil hoping for a true 'water only'. Then the same sort of thing happened when after being in flower for several weeks the leaves and the general appearance of the plant did not look right.

Since my growing was a perpetual style there were plants at all stages from clones without roots to plants ready to go into the cabinet for the flowering stage to plants that were coming out of the cabinet since they were ready for harvest. I noticed all kinds of problems from leaves with brown spots to leaves that were entirely a shade of light brown. Just about every problem I saw in messages here on the message board I also saw with my "water only soil".

Ends up that by the time the plant starts to show signs of nutrient deficiency it is already to late. Gotta jump in weeks before the signs and with the right nutrient(s) added to the water early enough the problems do not show up. Or when they do show up it is minimal. But, it has to be started early as a preventative measure instead of being a cure after the problem has started.

Anyway, I’m not sure what medium I’ll use for my next grow….I have two unopened bags of ocean Forest so I’d like to use it. I’m still not sure the best way to go about growing in it though.

From one of the Fox Farm web pages on using Ocean Forest and some of this is also mentioned on the back of the bag....

Container Gardens
For best results, feed your plants with FoxFarm fertilizer products during growth and bloom seasons.

They also mention this as a general practice ...

Use FoxFarm Fertilizers & Liquid Plant Food concentrates in conjunction with our soil mixes.

 

[013]

theres many ways to skin a cat but a lot of folks will say runoff means nothing. Runoff has chem salts from nutes plus fine sediments that come out in the wash so its a naturally inflated number anyway…

If you are fiddling with ph & ppms then worry about your input ph or ppm and forget about checking runoff. You can chase runoff right into the ditch by adjusting your feed numbers to get different numbers coming out the bottom.

when you get towards the end of a run the plants don’t really grow anyway it‘s all about fattening and ripening. but since the fans were cut I would keep my foot on the nutrient throttle and wait for the pistils to darken and crinkle up then give her another week or two beyond that all while scoping trichs from top calyx

it’s all good my friend