Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow

[Fenderbender]

I read a few threads about THCV when I joined the site a couple of years ago.
I was interested in it due to the research indicating it was helpful for people who have anxiety attacks, and because I was growing some seeds that were supposedly Doug's Varin, sold by a former sponsor.
Long story short, it's apparently almost impossible to reliably breed a high THCV strain, with the exception of true Doug's Varin which was sold to GW pharmaceutical, and possibly a strain called Pink Boost Goddess (I'm not joking, they actually named it that).
PBG is impossible to get in seed form as the people growing it exclusively sell bud to dispensaries in California.
All the other strains that are supposed to be high in it are either impossible to obtain, or don't always produce it.
Dutch Passion had a ridiculously high priced strain they called THCVictory for a while, but at 500 Euro for a 5 pack I don't know if anyone ever bought any, or if it reliably produced it.

Edit: @SeedsMan had an auto that was supposed to be 1:1 THCV:CBD at one point, I think.

Oh wow, well they came down a lot over the years currently the THC victory is half price 68euros for 5 seeds, down from 135e which is still a lot for 5 beans.

I've indeed heard THCv mostly in relation to long flowering African Sativas as 808 mentioned by the way is that an 808/909 Roland reference? , where they find elevated concentrations of the stuff, I wanna know is it good? do we want it

Currently I get most of my buzz from the terpenes I think, as at lower vape temps a long hold of a good flavoured hit has my mind spinning.. whilst rolling a big fat one and smoking that feels likes eh? standard high.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

In lower concentration it's an antagonist to THC, and at a higher concentration it's an agonist.
I'm not sure what the concentration has to be for the switchover, but as far as I remember it was pretty low.
Most cannabis contains less than 1% THCV, and strains with 4% or more are reported to cause more visual distortion and psychedelic effects.
It's a stimulant, suppresses appetite, and has some slight clinical evidence for improving bone density, and insulin sensitivity.
There is evidence from human trials that it stops anxiety attacks that are in progress, and regular use lowers the frequency of them.
It's the effects on anxiety attacks that I was interested in. You can get the rest of it from regular exercise.

Edit: For vaping it has to be 220⁰C or higher, and that is also the temp at which benzene is formed. Since the boiling point of benzene is lower than the temp it's formed at it immediately vaporizes.

 

[cbdhemp808]

In lower concentration it's an antagonist to THC, and at a higher concentration it's an agonist.
I'm not sure what the concentration has to be for the switchover, but as far as I remember it was pretty low.
Most cannabis contains less than 1% THCV, and strains with 4% or more are reported to cause more visual distortion and psychedelic effects.
It's a stimulant, suppresses appetite, and has some slight clinical evidence for improving bone density, and insulin sensitivity.
There is evidence from human trials that it stops anxiety attacks that are in progress, and regular use lowers the frequency of them.
It's the effects on anxiety attacks that I was interested in. You can get the rest of it from regular exercise.

Edit: For vaping it has to be 220⁰C or higher, and that is also the temp at which benzene is formed. Since the boiling point of benzene is lower than the temp it's formed at it immediately vaporizes.

220 C = 428 F. I'm out on that one... I only vape now, and my PAX Mini operates at 380°F - 420°F. Good thing... benzene is carcinogenic.

 

[CBDMed]

1% THCV, and strains with 4% or more are reported to cause more visual distortion and psychedelic effects...
It's the effects on anxiety attacks that I was interested in. You can get the rest of it from regular exercise.

Haha, what kind of regular exercises can I do where I get visual distortion and psychedelic effects?

 

[Fenderbender]

Haha, what kind of regular exercises can I do where I get visual distortion and psychedelic effects?

Well all the Yogi's claim you can get there with breathing but then you catch 'em in a drunken stupor on the beach munching datura seeds or sumtin

 

[cbdhemp808]

A couple more on my radar screen now...

Purple Pineapple Express (Annunaki) - 4 phenos: 3 indica, 1 sativa; ocimene dominant +pinene; THC 20%

Hawaiian Skunk (aka The Real McCoy) - Hawaiian indica x Skunk #1; ocimene/pinene dominant; THC 17%

The PPE is known to be 100% resistant to powdery mildew.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I've indeed heard THCv mostly in relation to long flowering African Sativas as 808 mentioned by the way is that an 808/909 Roland reference? , where they find elevated concentrations of the stuff, I wanna know is it good? do we want it

808 area code of Hawaii. Love the Ganesh by the way. May Ganesh destroy all obstacles holding the sacred healing plant from full healing potential on planet Earth. "Let the herbs grow and be free!" – Damian Marley

happy holidayz everyone!

 

[cbdhemp808]

Greetings Growmies,

I harvested the Humboldt Dream today, and trimmed tonight. This time, NO BUD ROT! As I mentioned before, this pheno shows fairly good leaf spot mold resistance, and no PM. I was on the lookout for bud rot, and noticed a bit of fuzzy filaments on the dead stigmas on Monday, but made the call to wait until Tuesday. Stigmas were almost completely brown and dead everywhere. There were a lot of milky trichomes, so I decided to harvest.

Trimming was fairly easy, except for a lot of small (~1mm), red-eyed flies, and a few black ones. No other bugs to speak of. All buds were very clean, and there wasn't any larf. Lots of popcorn and sub-popcorn. The red-eyed flies (pic below) were kind of in a zombie state – not quite dead, not quite alive, and stuck to the resin. I imagine they were attracted by sweet terpene odor, and once they landed, got trapped and gassed by terps. I don't think I've ever seen any of these during trimming, or maybe one or two in the past.

Humboldt Dream, 70% indica – 7 gal. pot

category	score
Leaf mold resistance* (low, med, high): med	2
Bud rot resistance* (low, med, high): high	3
Bug resistance (low, med, high): med	2
Resin production (low, med, high): med+	2.5
Fragrance: sweet/cheese/pepper/gas	--
Harvest status (minus, neutral, plus): plus	3
Yield (low, med, high): med	2
Overall rating:	14.5/18 = 81%

* I didn't use any foliar spray to help prevent mold and bud rot.

There were a lot of these guys, especially on the bigger buds. Maybe fruit flies? They seem a bit different, and perhaps smaller.

This shot was taken on Monday.

 

[Azimuth]

Sounds like you're dialing it in with no rot.

 

[cbdhemp808]

This was published almost a month ago, but I had no idea...

Hawaii attorney general issues clear roadmap for legalizing recreational marijuana

Right now in Hawaii, the only way to buy marijuana legally is from a medical cannabis dispensary.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

...now we wait until the next legislative session, which starts in January. I'm guessing the 10% tax is the main driving factor.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hey Growmies,

I've had a big breakthrough tonight, actually a couple.

First, I have finally figured out terpene evaporation temperatures, which are very difficult to find online. If you try to search for this, what comes up are boiling points. And the boiling point information is sometimes not accurate. Evaporation temperatures are important to the process of drying and curing. In addition, terpene evaporation temperatures are interesting with respect to the research I've been doing on the role of terpenes in bud rot and leaf mold resistance.

The key to understanding (and finding info on) terpene evaporation temperatures is vapor pressure. I'm still in the process of fully understanding this; however, vapor pressure is a measurement of the volatility, which is the "tendency of a substance to evaporate at normal temperatures."

The below chart is from an research paper I came across, titled Vapor Pressure, Vaping, and Corrections to Misconceptions Related to Medical Cannabis’ Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients’ Physical Properties and Compositions, Aharon M. Eyal, et al. 2022 ...

Here we can see that the monoterpenes are by far the most volatile, and start evaporating at 68°F (20 C). At 120°F (50 C) and above, they are really taking off. The primary monoterpenes in cannabis are pinene, myrcene, limonene, terpinolene, terpinene, ocimene, and terpineol (a monoterpenoid). The sesquiterpenes are much less volatile, and start evaporating at 212°F (100 C). The primary sesquiterpenes are: beta-caryophyllene, alpha-humulene, and bisabolol (a sesquiterpenoid).

In terms of bud rot resistance, and potentially leaf mold resistance as well, clearly the monoterpenes are the only ones to consider. The higher the daytime temperatures, above 68°F, the more they will off-gas. A more complete list of vapor pressures for the monoterpenes is shown in the below, Table 3.

Below is Table 3 from Aharon M. Eyal, et al., showing both boiling points and vapor pressure at sea level (1 atmosphere or 760 mm Hg) of various terpenes...

Now we can see which of the monoterpenes is the most volatile at 68°F (20 C), looking at the vapor pressure from the above chart (Torr -or- mm Hg), with caryophyllene and humulene listed at the end for comparison...

alpha-Pinene........ 3.570
beta-Pinene......... 2.180
beta-Myrcene........ 1.690
Limonene............ 1.130
Terpinolene......... 0.799
beta-Caryophyllene.. 0.021
alpha-Humulene...... 0.010

Next, I'll fill out this monoterpene volatility chart by adding the other primary monoterpenes, and increasing the temperature to 77°F (these number are from other sources, not the above research paper)...

alpha-Pinene........ 3.489
beta-Pinene......... 2.399
beta-Myrcene........ 2.090
alpha-Ocimene....... 1.970
alpha-Terpinene..... 1.665
beta-Ocimene........ 1.559
Limonene............ 1.550
Terpinolene......... 1.126

From this we can see pinene and myrcene are the most prominent off-gassing terpenes at a normal daytime temperature of 77°F. In my research on pine and non-pine terpenes, I found correlation with sativa/indica distinction, and also with bud rot and leaf mold resistance. Now we can ask the questions, which are more volatile, pine or non-pine terpenes? Since myrcene and limonene are the only two prominent non-pine terpenes*, it's obvious that pine terpenes are the most volatile. (*Linalool clocks in a just 0.170, so it's not very volatile. bisabolol is a sesquiterpene, so barely registers any volatility at 77°F. Same for nerolidol.)

This is a cool discovery, because I theorized that terpinolene was the active terpene for bud rot resistance, in terpinolene dominant phenos. I also theorized that pinene/myrcene dominance was responsible for leaf mold resistance. When terpinolene is dominant, along with high levels of other pine terpenes, the overall effect is a lot of off-gassing of pine terpenes, and this supports my theory of bud rot resistance.

It's important to note that total off-gassing is a function of both the volatility of the terpenes present, and the percent by weight of each terpene present. If you've got both high volatility, and high percent, good things are going to happen.

~~~~~​

Second, I have finally also figured out the boiling points of terpenes. If you look these up online, there's wild disagreement depending on the source. I think the variation is due to the fact that a lot of chemical databases will show boiling point temperatures at various atmospheric pressures other than 1 atmosphere (which is 760 mm Hg), i.e. the pressure at sea level.

This is my own table, based on data from two different chemical databases that were in agreement, except as noted with "(2)", and at 1 atmosphere...

Here we can see the boiling points as not a fixed number, but as a range, with the first column being the lowest recorded boiling point. The chart is ordered with the highest boiling point first (beta-caryophyllene). The far right column, "type," is the type of terpene: S=sesquiterpene, M=monoterpene, Mn=monoterpenoid.

This chart is important for understanding vape temperatures; i.e. as long as your vaporizer is operating at 368.6°F or above, you'll be getting all the main monoterpenes. You can't vape beta-caryophyllene, because the combustion temperature of cannabis is 451°F. Terpineol at 423-424°F is fairly close to the combustion temperature.

 

[WillCall]

Wow! Nice stuff! Thank you!

 

[WillCall]

I would just add that there is the process of steam distillation that can mobilize higher boiling organic compounds below their boiling points. This is used for isolating delicate essential oils. The moisture content of the bud will make steam when above 100C, and the materials partition into the heated steam and are carried along - to lungs, or a distillation receiver. So maybe those higher boiling terpenes hitch a ride in the moisture train. There is probably 10% water in even very dry bud.

 

[cbdhemp808]

ah yes... I studied that some in 2018

fractional distillation aka short path distillation with vacuum and condenser

A Guide to Short Path Distillation

Short Path Distillation is a method of separating compounds based on their unique boiling points. Used to purify and isolate THC & CBD.

precisionextraction.com

 

[cbdhemp808]

Here's some pics from today...

My one-and-only White Widow clone... she lives! I'm stoked – she's the most beautiful plant I've ever grown. I'm thinking to breed her someday with a super bud rot and leaf mold resistant pheno, maybe one of: Sugar Black Rose, Durban Poison, Jack Herer, Chernobyl, Agent Orange, Chemodo Dragon, or Chemdawg D. These are my best seed picks going forward – I've never grown any of them yet. I call these my "Lucky 7" (derived from the Lucky 13 that I came up with on page 26 of this thread).

HI-BISCUS clone coming along in 10 gal. I plucked off the leaves affected by septoria leaf spot. Maybe the septoria plague has now passed.

My best legacy CBD pheno in 7 gal., ready for cloning and transfer to the flower house.

Another shot of the above plant.

Another CBD pheno, in 5 gal. Ready for cloning, but skipping flower this time.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Flashback...

Baby WW's mom in the flower house, October '23... deep green and very leaf mold resistant. 3 weeks later, she was effected by some septoria. Next time around, I'll plant in 10 gal. instead of 7 gal.

WW day 35 in flower.

WW day 35 in flower.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Posted to X by Kevin McKernan today...

Here's the article:

https://chemistry-europe.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cbic.202300511

 

[cbdhemp808]

Greetings Growmies,

Here's some pics from the veg house today. Solar exposure has been super low this time of year, so there's not a lot of growth, except for the amazing CBD #9 on the right that was started in a 3 gal pot and only transferred to 10 gal yesterday!

New 10 gal pots... foreground center is HI-BISCUS; next row left to right... Humboldt Dream, Sweet Critical CBD, and my legacy CBD pheno #9. Behind those is legacy CBD #18 in 7 gal. In the far back is a CBG mom that will be chopped (her baby is in the foreground, closest 1 gal pot).

My legacy CBD #9, 4.5 ft tall. She got this big in a 3 gal pot... doing so well I thought what the heck, she deserves to be flowered! Will be fun to see how she does in 10 gal.

My only White Widow clone of the amazing mom that I flowered out.

 

[Azimuth]

My only White Widow clone of the amazing mom that I flowered out.

Awesome! She lives on.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I posted this to El Gringuito's thread, but I wanted to copy it here as well...

And you do not see sativas as being more mold resistant, because of the airiness of the bud structure?

(Are you suggesting that sativa or indica makes no difference--but what matters is the terpenes?)

I'm saying that sativas are often known for being mold resistant, and the reason is the terpene profiles. Specifically, it looks like terpinolene dominant strains offer the best natural resistance to bud rot. Those strains tend to be high in the "pine terpenes," as opposed to the non-pine terpenes. Another factor is the overall amount of terpenes in the flower, meaning high resin production correlates to fungus/mold resistance. That's what I'm seeing.

I'm also seeing that the distinction between indica and sativa also correlates directly to the terpene profiles. In other words, the indica and sativa effects (on the mind/body) are the result of the terpenes. A THC indica will effect you differently than a THC sativa, and there's no mysterious, hidden ingredient there that's causing that – it's the terpenes. Some people will claim that sativa doesn't give them stimulating effects, but I think what's going on is that they grew a plant labeled as a sativa when in fact, the pheno they grew was indica (i.e. indica leaning or indica dominant). This is quite common. As I've said, the majority of popular strains have at least two predictable phenos, and the phenos can have very different terpene profiles. Those phenos will often be labelled as "indica pheno" or "sativa pheno"... from the same strain.