Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow

[cbdhemp808]

Cloning update...

Also, the HI-BISCUS has a bit of stem funk and seems stunted.

The mom is hanging in there... still stunted though. Two cuttings failed, and it looks like it was due to fungus in the stems. They drooped over and the stems were starting to turn light brown. I tossed the cuttings and the medium, and started over with fresh medium that was wetted with Mikrobs solution (beneficial microbes including trichoderma).

Possible breakthrough in cloning here! These were started only 4-5 days ago. This time I used a new technique. I harvested a leaf from a little aloe plant that we have, split the leaf open lengthwise, and then coated the stem ends with aloe by rubbing them on the exposed gel. After that I dipped them in rooting powder (dip/sprinkle). I gotta say, so far these are the most perky I've seen at this stage – they never drooped at all. I doubt I'll be buying Clonex again. The powder I used is Bonide Bontone II Rooting Powder, less than $8.00 for 35 grams. I'm keeping it in the fridge.

Now I'm not so sure about this aloe + rooting powder. I'll check this weekend and see if any roots are developing yet.

 

[Azimuth]

I've taken to using perlite or coarse builder's sand which can be sterilized between rounds. I do a couple of minutes in the microwave.

Sounds like you have damping off disease or similar which is often an issue with seedlings. A bit of worm castings on the soil surface can help with that if that's what it is.

 

[Wastei]

I've taken to using perlite or coarse builder's sand which can be sterilized between grows. I do a couple of minutes in the microwave.

Sounds like you have damping off disease or similar which is often an issue with seedlings. A bit of worm castings on the soil surface can help with that if that's what it is.

There's several different strains of fusarium oxysporum and all of them have been found in damp/wilt of disease. Spores are always around no matter what and it's the environment that makes innoculation possible.

I sort it by having good aeration going along the soil/medium surface from the get go. It's one of the most important things to have in place no matter the growing method since most fusarium strains start at the main base stem of seedling, cutting and well developed plants.

Cheers!

 

[cbdhemp808]

Greetings Growmies,

...I couldn't use a dead fridge, because I need to bring down the temperature to inhibit mold and reduce terpene loss. The thing is, I don't want to deal with what I have discovered with my recent test, which is that desiccant creates a vacuum, and terps will evaporate more quickly in a vacuum. One might suggest, just "open the door", but that will let in a spike of moisture (my ambient RH is very high). So, I don't want to deal with the opposing forces of vacuum and moisture spikes – I would like to control both of those.

It's complicated. Another big factor for me is my limited solar power. I can't run two fridges at normal fridge temperatures. I do happen to have a small chest freezer, and I'm thinking of using an external thermostat control to run it at 55-60°F. That would be my cooling, and very energy efficient. And then I would use an airtight container inside of that to do the drying. I'm presently scheming on the details of that. It's tricky.

OK, so I think I've got a possible solution!

I have a small chest freezer that I can run using an Inkbird ITC-608T (temp/RH). Essentially, it will run as a not-very-cold fridge. I also have a mini dehum that I'll place inside it. The buds will be wet trimmed and placed on racks/screens. (Or should I hang them?) Temp. will be set to 68°F for the first three days, and then 64°F after that. RH will be set to 55%. (as per Rosenthal)

I gotta laugh... it took the experiment with the buds in the little jar, and the drawback of silica gel causing a vacuum, to get me to consider the chest freezer running as a fridge. And then tonight I realized the little dehum could easily fit in there. The volume of the fridge is only 5 cu. ft., which should be very energy efficient to run at 64-68°F, especially with some thermal mass in there (1 gal glass bottles filled with water). Likewise, also energy efficient to run the dehum.

The only unknown here is the performance of the dehum. I've actually never used the one I have (Pohl Schmitt) – I was saving it for the day I could build a small drying room. This particular unit has gotten some bad reviews on Amazon, saying they die fairly quickly. But there are many other options on Amazon, and this one gets a high rating. So I'll try out the Pohl Schmitt and see how it goes.

It seems like the power requirement to keep 5 cu. ft. of air at 55% RH would be very low. I don't plan on opening up the fridge for 10-14 days, so that means once the RH is brought down to 55%, it should take very little power to keep it there, as the buds are drying out. According to Rosenthal, the buds will lose 60-70% of their moisture in the first 3 days.

Another dynamic is that the dehum produces some heat while operating, which will cause the fridge to turn on. During the first 3 days, this will probably happen a lot. After that, the rate of moisture emitted by the buds will decrease.

One thing I could do to conserve power, if necessary, is put the power to the dehum on a timer, so that it doesn't run during the night, and only comes back on once the sun hits the solar panels. Humidity would rise above 55% during the night, but it shouldn't be a problem.

What do you think... will it work? Any thoughts about temp. and RH?

 

[Azimuth]

But you'll still have to open the fridge to empty the dehumidifier, no? And you probably should have a humidity sensor (preferably one you can view remotely) to make sure the night levels don't get too high. Probably will be fine as it's a mostly closed system, but for the first pass or two you'll probably want to be more attentive.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Thanks, Azi... good questions as always!

But you'll still have to open the fridge to empty the dehumidifier, no?

I think the dehum reservoir will be big enough to hold all water from the buds and initial air humidity in the fridge, which will be closed for 10-14 days. I also think the evaporation of water from the reservoir, into the air, would be negligible.

Here's a calculation... Let's say my harvest will turn out to be 8 oz of dried bud. Let's say dried bud is 25% the weight of wet bud. So that means 0.25X = 8. X=32oz of wet bud (2 lb). That means 32oz - 8oz = 24 oz, is the weight of the water extracted. How much volume is 24 oz of water? 23 fl oz ... slightly less that 3 cups.

So, that's the calculation for 8 oz of dried bud, which is typically a lot more than I get from harvesting one plant. I usually fill about 1.5 quart jars with dried bud from one plant. That's more like 3oz dried bud. That would be about 8.6 fl oz of water in the reservoir. My current dehum has a capacity of 17 fl oz.

An upgrade would be a better-rated mini dehum with larger capacity (35 or 41 fl oz) and/or drain tube. I can also retrofit a drain tube. I can route the drain tube to the drain in the bottom of the fridge.

And you probably should have a humidity sensor (preferably one you can view remotely) to make sure the night levels don't get too high. Probably will be fine as it's a mostly closed system, but for the first pass or two you'll probably want to be more attentive.

That's what the Inkbird ITC-608T provides... two probes, one temperature, the other humidity, and display. I will probably run the wires through the fridge door gasket – i.e. drill holes and use silicon. If I want to control the time of day that the temp. and humidity control is powered – i.e. off during night hours – then I will need to use separate temp. and humidity controllers (Inkbird), because the ITC-608T doesn't support that. At this point, I'm guessing I'd want the temp control always on (24 hrs). If it turns out I need to conserve power by turning off the humidity control at night, then I'll put the humidity controller on a digital timer outlet.

I'll might also use a VIVOSUN THB1S to monitor the high and low temps and RH. But at ±5% RH accuracy... not very accurate. This one looks better: Amazon.com

 

[cbdhemp808]

Cloning update...

The mom is hanging in there... still stunted though. Two cuttings failed, and it looks like it was due to fungus in the stems. They drooped over and the stems were starting to turn light brown. I tossed the cuttings and the medium, and started over with fresh medium that was wetted with Mikrobs solution (beneficial microbes including trichoderma).

Now I'm not so sure about this aloe + rooting powder. I'll check this weekend and see if any roots are developing yet.

No roots and cuttings aren't looking good. It's been about 2 weeks, so this is very abnormal. Usually my clones are ready after 2 weeks. Soooo... I've got a bit of an emergency now, with moms needing to be flowered. I'm reverting to Clonex for now... buying a fresh bottle tomorrow. I dunno what happened with the aloe + rooting powder. Either the rooting powder was old (even though I just bought it), or possibly dipping in aloe gel first somehow interfered with the rooting powder.

 

[Azimuth]

No roots and cuttings aren't looking good. It's been about 2 weeks, so this is very abnormal. Usually my clones are ready after 2 weeks. Soooo... I've got a bit of an emergency now, with moms needing to be flowered. I'm reverting to Clonex for now... buying a fresh bottle tomorrow. I dunno what happened with the aloe + rooting powder. Either the rooting powder was old (even though I just bought it), or possibly dipping in aloe gel first somehow interfered with the rooting powder.

The aloe coats the stems in a thick goo which probably protects the stems from the rooting hormone reaching them. Might be a better plan to mix the two thoroughly before dipping the stems.

Aloe was one of my fails in my cloning trials, though I clone in perlite or coarse builders sand.

 

[gwhunran]

No roots and cuttings aren't looking good. It's been about 2 weeks, so this is very abnormal. Usually my clones are ready after 2 weeks. Soooo... I've got a bit of an emergency now, with moms needing to be flowered. I'm reverting to Clonex for now... buying a fresh bottle tomorrow. I dunno what happened with the aloe + rooting powder. Either the rooting powder was old (even though I just bought it), or possibly dipping in aloe gel first somehow interfered with the rooting powder.

I been successful at cloning but it's never a sure thing. My most anxious time, waiting for cuttings to root. I am pretty much just a seed planter now. Don't have time for all that.

 

[Wastei]

I been successful at cloning but it's never a sure thing. My most anxious time, waiting for cuttings to root. I am pretty much just a seed planter now. Don't have time for all that.

I always found it easier to put cuttings in water in a small dwc bubbler. I set it in the corner with ambient light and forget it. Here's cutting a couple of years ago.

I use a few drops of bleach and high P food is what I typically use. But straight tap water often do the trick! No domes, no spraying and no rooting solution. You could add things like KLN or any other rooting solution containing IBA-K to cut down some days but you typically see roots in 7-10 days on healthy cuttings. Some are even faster than that.

 

[WillCall]

i don't know what method people use for rooting cuttings.

I've tried a lot of cloning methods. The one I've been using with 99.9% success is a slight modification of "Freak's Stupid
Simple Cloning Method" (Freaks Stupid Simple Cloning Method)
I can absolutely vouch for this method. This is so reliable I call it my "ark". I start cuttings before I go on vacation for 2wks so that I know I will have some stock if my plant-sitter kills the mothers.

My mods/notes:

I make 4 holes about 1/8" with a hot nail around the top of the cover cup . This lets it breathe just a little without drying out. If you start with well moistened substrate, the cups are good for minimum 2 wks, maybe 3 wks, unattended at 30C. With the breather holes you don't have to do Freak's "4da, then uncover, see if they wilt, recover, continue" sequence. You just leave them until you are back from vacation, or 2 wks, or until you see good roots.

I use straight ProMix BX for the substrate. No magic here. Perlite or coir are probably fine. The substrate is inert until there are roots. They don't need fert until there are roots, and then only 1/4 strength. Using potting soil lets me leave them until well rooted.

I stick 2 cuttings in each cup. One may root much earlier than the other. It's a mystery. Most often both will root but if I'm just looking for a single mother replacement I pot the first-rooted one. I mostly leave a weaker or unrooted one to continue as a backup; can toss it later if not needed.

I guess rooting powder CAN go bad but I am using some Bonide 0.1% IBA powder that I bought in 2017. After the cuttings get a fresh clean cut at the bottom and a few razor slits in the lower centimenter of the cutting, I dip the damp stems right into the jar of powder and tap off the excess. (They tell you not to do this.) Doesn't seem to have hurt it. I store it at 65-75F and dark. I'm sure any good rooting aid would be fine.

When they root they get a splash of 1/4str general fertilizer and sit another week or so to develop strong roots before transplanting. They don't get mildew or rot. Older, lower, leaves may senesce and go moldy but that mold is decomposer fungus, not pathogenic, so I've never seen harm to the cuttings.

The time to root is definitely strain dependent with some rooting in 5 da and some always taking 2wk or more, but they always root.

I wash the cups with a bit of dish detergent and bleach after each use and the cups are still going strong after 3yr.

Cheers!

 

[Azimuth]

I dip the damp stems right into the jar of powder and tap off the excess. (They tell you not to do this.) Doesn't seem to have hurt it.

The reason they tell you not to do this has nothing to do with affecting the rooting of that current batch. Rather, if there is any virus or disease on the stems you dip in the jar, that disease could infect every future cutting you dip in there.

So, best practice is to take what little you'll need out and then dip your cuttings in that smaller amount and then discard the remainder.

Glad to hear of your great success. I'll check out your link.

 

[WillCall]

The reason they tell you not to do this has nothing to do with affecting the rooting of that current batch. Rather, if there is any virus or disease on the stems you dip in the jar, that disease could infect every future cutting you dip in there.

So, best practice is to take what little you'll need out and then dip your cuttings in that smaller amount and then discard the remainder.

Glad to hear of your great success. I'll check out your link.

Disease. Thank you for being so kind in pointing that out. I deserved worse. I should have known that. In this current environment of Hop Latent Viroid I should be taking every precaution. I guess (hope) I've been lucky with my isolation and not bringing in cuttings in recent years.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I always found it easier to put cuttings in water in a small dwc bubbler. I set it in the corner with ambient light and forget it. Here's cutting a couple of years ago.

I use a few drops of bleach and high P food is what I typically use. But straight tap water often do the trick! No domes, no spraying and no rooting solution. You could add things like KLN or any other rooting solution containing IBA-K to cut down some days but you typically see roots in 7-10 days on healthy cuttings. Some are even faster than that.

Love it. Someday, someday.

 

[cbdhemp808]

i don't know what method people use for rooting cuttings.

I've tried a lot of cloning methods. The one I've been using with 99.9% success is a slight modification of "Freak's Stupid
Simple Cloning Method" (Freaks Stupid Simple Cloning Method)
I can absolutely vouch for this method. This is so reliable I call it my "ark". I start cuttings before I go on vacation for 2wks so that I know I will have some stock if my plant-sitter kills the mothers.

My mods/notes:

I make 4 holes about 1/8" with a hot nail around the top of the cover cup . This lets it breathe just a little without drying out. If you start with well moistened substrate, the cups are good for minimum 2 wks, maybe 3 wks, unattended at 30C. With the breather holes you don't have to do Freak's "4da, then uncover, see if they wilt, recover, continue" sequence. You just leave them until you are back from vacation, or 2 wks, or until you see good roots.

I use straight ProMix BX for the substrate. No magic here. Perlite or coir are probably fine. The substrate is inert until there are roots. They don't need fert until there are roots, and then only 1/4 strength. Using potting soil lets me leave them until well rooted.

I stick 2 cuttings in each cup. One may root much earlier than the other. It's a mystery. Most often both will root but if I'm just looking for a single mother replacement I pot the first-rooted one. I mostly leave a weaker or unrooted one to continue as a backup; can toss it later if not needed.

I guess rooting powder CAN go bad but I am using some Bonide 0.1% IBA powder that I bought in 2017. After the cuttings get a fresh clean cut at the bottom and a few razor slits in the lower centimenter of the cutting, I dip the damp stems right into the jar of powder and tap off the excess. (They tell you not to do this.) Doesn't seem to have hurt it. I store it at 65-75F and dark. I'm sure any good rooting aid would be fine.

When they root they get a splash of 1/4str general fertilizer and sit another week or so to develop strong roots before transplanting. They don't get mildew or rot. Older, lower, leaves may senesce and go moldy but that mold is decomposer fungus, not pathogenic, so I've never seen harm to the cuttings.

The time to root is definitely strain dependent with some rooting in 5 da and some always taking 2wk or more, but they always root.

I wash the cups with a bit of dish detergent and bleach after each use and the cups are still going strong after 3yr.

Cheers!

Thanks for that. Freak's (and your mods) are similar to what I do (see in my signature), except using clear plastic cups and a cup on top for humidity. I like that. I think if I did that, they would get more light. Definitely less maintenance, because I mist my clones once or twice a day for the first week. I did get some fresh Clonex today, so that's good, and I'll be taking new cuttings tomorrow. Usually I'm near 100% success with my method. But reading the Freak's, I think I've been going too wet with my medium (coir/perlite). I'm thinking about saving some of the cuttings from the last go and recycling them in my other cloning dome, this time using no aloe gel, just the Bonide powder... just to see if that works same or different than Clonex. Fyi, I don't use any slits and I've been getting near 100%. I usually see the start of roots within a week, and by 2 weeks the roots are coming out the bottom of the pots. Do you think slits would speed that up?

 

[cbdhemp808]

The aloe coats the stems in a thick goo which probably protects the stems from the rooting hormone reaching them.

Makes sense. I'm using the tried-and-true Clonex this time (new cuttings), and will test w/ strait powder on the other cuttings (snip off a new end).

 

[WillCall]

Thanks for that. Freak's (and your mods) are similar to what I do (see in my signature), except using clear plastic cups and a cup on top for humidity. I like that. I think if I did that, they would get more light. Definitely less maintenance, because I mist my clones once or twice a day for the first week. I did get some fresh Clonex today, so that's good, and I'll be taking new cuttings tomorrow. Usually I'm near 100% success with my method. But reading the Freak's, I think I've been going too wet with my medium (coir/perlite). I'm thinking about saving some of the cuttings from the last go and recycling them in my other cloning dome, this time using no aloe gel, just the Bonide powder... just to see if that works same or different than Clonex. Fyi, I don't use any slits and I've been getting near 100%. I usually see the start of roots within a week, and by 2 weeks the roots are coming out the bottom of the pots. Do you think slits would speed that up?

Wounding is often done in propagation so I do it. More wounded area and more contact with the rooting powder may give more/faster callus and roots. But "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Sounds like yours root in timely fashion. They can only root so fast. I've never had any rot from the slits. I don't slit through, just shallow longitudinal to damage some underlying tissue - razor blade will tend to follow the stem.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Greetings Growmies,

Quick update from the veg house today...

Clockwise starting with foreground center, all clones: HI-BISCUS in 10 gal, Sweet Critical CBD in 10 gal, Humboldt Dream (back) in 10 gal, legacy CBD #9 in 10 gal (6ft 3in tall), and legacy CBD #8 in 7 gal.

Round 2 on the clones of all the above plants, 2 cuttings each. They are less than a week in the pots here. A little droopy because I'm being a bit conservative with the misting. The tote lid serves as a water reservoir for evaporation, with the water pooling around the edges, not directly under the pots. The transparent tote on the left serves as the humidity dome.

 

[Azimuth]

I don't like them to droop as I think it lengthens the time it takes for them to root. I do mine in perlite but I try to keep that moist so once there are roots they have something to keep them going.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I always found it easier to put cuttings in water in a small dwc bubbler. I set it in the corner with ambient light and forget it. Here's cutting a couple of years ago.

I use a few drops of bleach and high P food is what I typically use. But straight tap water often do the trick! No domes, no spraying and no rooting solution. You could add things like KLN or any other rooting solution containing IBA-K to cut down some days but you typically see roots in 7-10 days on healthy cuttings. Some are even faster than that.

This sounds ideal... do you have a link to your complete rig and description? Also, would peroxide work instead of bleach?