Brewing a tea

[AuroraIndica]

Brewing a tea

Brewing a tea

 

[AuroraIndica]

I also have crab meal and worm casting

 

[GodOfPot]

First off, what purpose is the tea for? Different teas serve different purposes so would need kind of an idea of what your goal with the tea is. Also for most purposes you will want some sort of compost which I don't see in any of those pics....but some back ground info as to the purpose of the tea would make all the difference

 

[bobrown14]

My tea recipe is:

1 cup EWC + 1/2 cup of Kelp meal... can add in a tbs of Grandma's BSM to 3-5 gallons of water. An aquarium pump is pretty small so if that's what you are using scale that down to 1-2 gallons of water and 1/2 all the ingredients. What we want to see with an ACT (the "A" in ACT is air: AKA dissolved oxygen). Without a larger pump you will need to use less water.

Guano..... Not a big fan unless I absolutely need to as in a sick dying plant I need to nurse to the finish line. Very rare... the high P doesn't play well with the micro-organisms.

 

[GodOfPot]

Hey Bob, there some sort of rule of thumb to follow for air pumps? I've seen 0.08 CFM/gal at least...however most pumps don't advertise a CFM rating....so is there a good rule of some sort to follow like "x PSI per gal" or "x watt per gal"?

Edit: Just realized there's a GPH rating, so perhaps a minimum to aim for using that rating?

 

[bobrown14]

Hey Bob, there some sort of rule of thumb to follow for air pumps? I've seen 0.08 CFM/gal at least...however most pumps don't advertise a CFM rating....so is there a good rule of some sort to follow like "x PSI per gal" or "x watt per gal"?

Edit: Just realized there's a GPH rating, so perhaps a minimum to aim for using that rating?

Yes....

A good read:

Microbe Organics

I use his Mini-Microbulator + Homer bucket with a lid and I did cutouts.

Tim has done a bunch of work with this and his latest suggestions are:

"The outcome of this research was, the estimation, that the minimum flow required from an air pump to make compost tea while maintaining the DO2 at 6 PPM, is 0.05 CFM per gallon while the optimum flow is 0.08 CFM per gallon or greater. (the only exception was when utilizing airlifts)

This means that most aquarium pumps will not work with a 5 gallon ACT maker, no matter what a couple of guys from Texas say. Two gallons, perhaps."

Suggestion is to get a pump that goes minimum 2 CFM.. for a 5 gal ECT brew. I usually end up with more tea than I need... hello outdoor garden, this time of year (winter) is perfect for a ACT for the outdoor garden, indoors 2 of course.

All I know about brewing ACT I found on that website. I've upgraded a few time with my air pump and just bought a new brewer thingy from BAS.

 

[GodOfPot]

Yeah that's where I'd found the 0.08 mark from...what I see from most advertising the cfm isn't listed...but from what he's saying I gather a 2 cfm pump is in the range of 600 gph...and these cheap aquarium pumps are around 60 gph...so huge difference lol

 

[bobrown14]

Yeah that’s where I’d found the 0.08 mark from...what I see from most advertising the cfm isn’t listed...but from what he’s saying I gather a 2 cfm pump is in the range of 600 gph...and these cheap aquarium pumps are around 60 gph...so huge difference lol

Yeah there's quite a difference. You can brew a tea with an aquarium pump for sure just don't expect to air lift any water with one. I have an air lift brewer that I bought from Tim, and upgraded his pump to the next size up from that and its much better. These are loud pumps tho.... I brew the teas outside, it can get messy with a lot of air movement. I have a lid for my 5 gal bucket that I cut holes in and that helps keep the foam inside and not all over the floor.

For an aquarium pump and an airstone in 2 gallons just don't run it too long. Max 24-30 hours and your good. Sometimes I'll just throw a handful of EWC and some Kelp meal in a bucket and stir it up ... let sit over night stir some more and water in the next day. The EWC and the Kelp meal just by themselves have benefit as a tea. The ACT we are growing beneficial micro-organisms that are not in high populations in the soil..

When I first got started doing ACTs - it was in a 3 gal bucket with about 1.5 gal of water and an aquarium air pump. Many years ago....


I haven't listened to this podcast yet, but this is Tim Wilson the guy that runs the microbe website I pointed to whom did a lot of research with ACTs:

Cannabis Cultivation and Science Podcast Episode 5 Tim Wilson Interview - KIS Organics

Here's another podcast from Jeff Lowenfels of the Teaming with Microbes series of books:

Cannabis Cultivation and Science Podcast Episode 2 with Jeff Lowenfels - KIS Organics

If you look around there are a few podcasts of Clackamas Coots there as well. When Coots was fine tuning the "coots mix", Tim was there with a bunch of us mixing soils growing plants and brewing teas, sharing ideas and knowledge ... That's how I learned to successfully grow organically in containers.

Growing large flowers organically in soil that bloom for 50-100 days, and do it well can be challenging.

A good compost is KEY, and the compost will become a common theme the more we read and learn.

 

[GodOfPot]

Awesome info as always Bob .

Personally won't need that much tea...4 plant limit(for now)...love reading/listening to all these suggestions you make...always really helpful info .

 

[GodOfPot]

Yes....

A good read:

Microbe Organics

I use his Mini-Microbulator + Homer bucket with a lid and I did cutouts.

Tim has done a bunch of work with this and his latest suggestions are:

"The outcome of this research was, the estimation, that the minimum flow required from an air pump to make compost tea while maintaining the DO2 at 6 PPM, is 0.05 CFM per gallon while the optimum flow is 0.08 CFM per gallon or greater. (the only exception was when utilizing airlifts)

This means that most aquarium pumps will not work with a 5 gallon ACT maker, no matter what a couple of guys from Texas say. Two gallons, perhaps."

Suggestion is to get a pump that goes minimum 2 CFM.. for a 5 gal ECT brew. I usually end up with more tea than I need... hello outdoor garden, this time of year (winter) is perfect for a ACT for the outdoor garden, indoors 2 of course.

All I know about brewing ACT I found on that website. I've upgraded a few time with my air pump and just bought a new brewer thingy from BAS.

Finished reading through the website...lots of really good info in there....2 things specifically that stood out to me that I never seen mentioned elsewhere.

1. The use of CSPM in your tea

I sometimes include a pinch or handful [depending on brewer size] of sphagnum peatmoss in a brew. Depending on where the peatmoss was harvested, it will contribute a set of microbes somewhat similar to that derived from the 'Alaska' humus or humisoil products on the market. It is a least a better bang for your buck and at best a trifle better quality-wise.

didn't see mention of "where" the peat had to come from, but had never seen this mentioned before

2. I often see the argument about what's the difference between chemical form of N or organic form of N, and still don't quite understand the difference "yet" anyways...reading through books and forums I always see talk of nutrients in ionic form, using N, I always see mention of ammonium (NH4+) & Nitrate (NO3-), but even in Teaming with Microbes I don't ever once recall coming across mention of (R-NH2) or how this is taken up by plants....I know fungi produce NH4+ and N fixing bacteria can convert it to NO3- but this was new to me..

To simplify things I'll restrict the discussion to the plant's use of nitrogen (N). The forms of N which plant roots are able to uptake are in ionic form or soluble. These soluble forms of N are ammonium (NH4+) and nitrate (NO3-). Very simply stated these soluble forms of N are instantly available in chemical N and there is no need for any bacterial/archaeal (B/A) mineralization to make them available to the roots of plants. There is some indication that some soluble ammonium is utilized by B/A and mineralized into nitrates, however this appears (to me) somewhat an opportunistic occurrence (from the B/A perspective). So yes we can concur that B/A eats and thrives on some chemically provided ions but this action is not a necessary one for the plant to uptake exactly the same ions as are being consumed by the B/A. In certain circumstances the B/A will be in competition with the plant for these nutrients. So it appears that plants can grow in this fashion without interaction by mineralizing B/A. It appears that the chemically provided ions (soluble N) completely bypass the microbial nutrient cycle.

With natural or organic growing, N ( R-NH2 ) for the plant is contained (sequestered) in a non-soluble (non-ionic) form in organic matter (or in the case of the gardener; compost and other soil foods). It is true that there are certain known bacteria (and now some archaea) which directly fix and supply ionic forms of N to the roots of plants and this is an area where 'we' are still learning so all is not known by any stretch. However soil scientists have discovered and it is common knowledge (as knowledge goes) that the bulk of NH4+ and NO3- are delivered to the roots of plants by protozoa (flagellates, amoebae and ciliates). This occurs in a complex network ostensibly, controlled in large degree by the plant. The plant releases compounds from the roots which feed B/A, thereby increasing the B/A population. The B/A consumes/processes forms of R-NH2 or forms which are pre-degraded by fungi and or other B/A. The B/A further multiply with a good supply of food and their large population encourages the excysting (hatching from cysts) and dividing of protozoa. The protozoa prey upon the B/A and in an approximate 30 minute period complete the excretion of NH4+ and/or NO3- available to the roots of the plants. Apparently protozoa only utilize 30 to 40 percent of the nutrient consumed making 60 to 70% available to plants and many have a division cycle of 2 hours so the efficiency of this nutrient delivery system is considerable. Just as it began, the microbial N cycle can be rapidly shut down by chemical emissions from the plant. It is apparent that the nutrient needs of the plant can change within short periods (perhaps in hours). There is much yet unknown, however I hypothesize that even disease control may be effected by a sudden reduction of N in the rhizosphere. This is certainly something which cannot be effectively manipulated by chemical N applications.

Like I said, something I don't think I'd come across before and never see anyone mention this when the argument is brought up that "A plant doesn't care where it gets it's N from because it's all the same"

 

[bobrown14]

Like I said, something I don't think I'd come across before and never see anyone mention this when the argument is brought up that "A plant doesn't care where it gets it's N from because it's all the same"

I care where the N comes from. Never herd that argument before and that one sounds like it would come from someone or some company using or selling ammonium nitrate fertilizer.

I would argue - if plants didn't care, why don't organic farmers use ammonium nitrate or why isn't ammonium nitrate OMRI certified?? Just the tip of the iceberg here.

We can quite easily build a soil with the proper N and why soil recipes add in amendments like Basalt rock dusts.. When we compost there are several sources of N that get broken down in the composting process. What we organic growers DONT want to do is go spreading readily available N on the soil. What happens is when it rains the excess soluble N gets washed into the fresh water supply which causes imbalances with the result = large amounts of algae that then consume most of the oxygen in the water. Then we have no fish, and some algae are extremely toxic to animals and humans. Blue Algae is one there are several.

We spend a great deal of time building compost, more time than actually gardening, that is where our N comes from. Worm power...

Peat moss: North American source should be from Canada. I.E. CSPM - Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss. On the label of the peat moss you purchase it will spell out the country of origin, which for NA should be Canada. In Europe, Scotland, Ireland.. Whales. Good luck trying to source that. Those countries use it for fuel to heat and cook and also in the Whiskey making bizz.

Look up how clay interacts with the soil building process. Very fascinating... There's some chemistry going on in the soil even without human interaction. Then introduce plants and root exudates. Now we have a natural chemical engine producing and distributing soluble N and we humans don't even have to do anything.

Part of the Green Revolution is all about building and maintaining N sources in a sustainable fashion. Ammonium Nitrate skips past all the recycling required to live sustainably. Think eventually living in our own wastes. We actually are not that far away from it already in several places around the world. food for thought.

 

[GodOfPot]

I see it all the time in the "Ask Us Anything: Sharing Knowledge" thread in FAQs....they say "A plant can't tell the difference between synthetic N or organic N"
I assume their standing is that plant do uptake ammonium and nitrate, and that bacteria and fungi give off N in this form, so could a plant tell a difference between a synthetic NH4+ ion or an organic one?
I don't exactly know what R-NH2 is yet so not sure if this question would be phrased right but...in a living soil, how much % of N would a plant intake in ionic form(NH4+ & NO3-) vs R-HN2?

 

[AuroraIndica]

Hey i do have compost as well as store bought mushroom compost i was looking for a fungal dom tea and was just wondering what good ratios would be or how i could figure out what ratio i could do with what i have.i have a big enough air pump dont really need to much tea as well i was wondering to if mushroom vompost would be better for my tea or if i could usr as a top dressing or mulch. it does have a kinda clay like structure to it like somebody added worm casting to clay chuncks one other think ive heard that its better to give molasses alone as a tea i read an article that said its basicly desert for microbes and that you wouldn't eat desert first so why would you start your microbes of with it just curious on everybodys 2 sense about this

 

[bobrown14]

I see it all the time in the “Ask Us Anything: Sharing Knowledge” thread in FAQs....they say “A plant can’t tell the difference between synthetic N or organic N”
I assume their standing is that plant do uptake ammonium and nitrate, and that bacteria and fungi give off N in this form, so could a plant tell a difference between a synthetic NH4+ ion or an organic one?
I don’t exactly know what R-NH2 is yet so not sure if this question would be phrased right but...in a living soil, how much % of N would a plant intake in ionic form(NH4+ & NO3-) vs R-HN2?

Here's some science on the subject from University of Minnesota Extension service! There' that dang Extension Service again, helping people with soil... well not in Oregon or Washington State ....

Click in the link to the chapter on "Nitrogen Transformations" but the whole article is very informative and may answer some questions and hopefully raise others.

On N uptake and how I see it. The plants will uptake and help convert organic N to the inorganic version the plant can use. The plant makes the decision on when and how much they need. We "feed" the plant inorganic N in the form of chemical fertilizers. The plants will gladly uptake it regardless if she needs or wants more. That is the difference between feeding the plant and having the plant work with the environment to feed itself. In Cannabis, it's fairly easy to see which plants are being "fed" and which plants are feeding themselves.

Same as in hydroponic gardening... you cant taste the difference between and hydro grown tomato and one you grew in organic soil... big difference.

Understanding nitrogen in soils : Nitrogen : Nutrient Management : Agriculture : University of Minnesota Extension

 

[bobrown14]

Hey i do have compost as well as store bought mushroom compost i was looking for a fungal dom tea and was just wondering what good ratios would be or how i could figure out what ratio i could do with what i have.i have a big enough air pump dont really need to much tea as well i was wondering to if mushroom vompost would be better for my tea or if i could usr as a top dressing or mulch. it does have a kinda clay like structure to it like somebody added worm casting to clay chuncks one other think ive heard that its better to give molasses alone as a tea i read an article that said its basicly desert for microbes and that you wouldn't eat desert first so why would you start your microbes of with it just curious on everybodys 2 sense about this

Store bought compost or worm castings sometimes have chunks... its kinda a clue to the quality. Our home made vermicompost will have a few chunks but they break apart very easily. The bagged stuff those chunks are like rocks sometimes.

I woundn't recommend adding just BSM (molasses). Throw a handful of worm castings in with a tbs of BSM and aerate for a 24 hrs or so. Don't worry much about fungal vs bacterial teas.. EWC with BSM will have plenty of both. Wanna kick up your tea? Try adding in Malted Barley ground fine as the food source. Just don't bubble it for longer than 24 hrs max.

Adding un JUST molasses to soil you risk creating an anaerobic soil which will kill plants. Sugars feed the wrong bacteria - they take over and your plants are done. Not saying it will happen every time but its a risk. Not worth it in my opinion.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Same as in hydroponic gardening... you cant taste the difference between and hydro grown tomato and one you grew in organic soil... big difference.

Did you mean to say can taste the difference there Bb?

I actually have a question about tea myself. I haven't been able to source worm castings (believe me, I've tried everywhere for some months now) and my own farm has only just arrived to be set up (for one as a gift!!) so home-made castings are still some ways off. I have, however, been lucky enough to have been gifted a large bottle of worm wee. Will this make a T just as effective as castings? And what kind of strength would you recommend I mix it at? I'm thinking I should do a blend with some of the ground malted barley... and maybe some seaweed tea in the mix as well?

I'm not equipped to aerate it, I'm hoping it'll be fine after let sit for an hour or 2.


Cheers
.

 

[GodOfPot]

Here's some science on the subject from University of Minnesota Extension service! There' that dang Extension Service again, helping people with soil... well not in Oregon or Washington State ....

Click in the link to the chapter on "Nitrogen Transformations" but the whole article is very informative and may answer some questions and hopefully raise others.

On N uptake and how I see it. The plants will uptake and help convert organic N to the inorganic version the plant can use. The plant makes the decision on when and how much they need. We "feed" the plant inorganic N in the form of chemical fertilizers. The plants will gladly uptake it regardless if she needs or wants more. That is the difference between feeding the plant and having the plant work with the environment to feed itself. In Cannabis, it's fairly easy to see which plants are being "fed" and which plants are feeding themselves.

Same as in hydroponic gardening... you cant taste the difference between and hydro grown tomato and one you grew in organic soil... big difference.

Understanding nitrogen in soils : Nitrogen : Nutrient Management : Agriculture : University of Minnesota Extension

Awesome info, thanks Bob! Listened to both podcasts got some great info out of them too Gonna read through that soon

AG....while you may not be able to get EWC, a local source of compost instead of vermicomp may actually suffice better.....compost itself is still rich in bacteria & fungus and it's good to have some local stuff because the F/B you'd be brewing are species which you know are capable of surviving in your local environment

 

[Amy Gardner]

Awesome info, thanks Bob! Listened to both podcasts got some great info out of them too Gonna read through that soon

AG....while you may not be able to get EWC, a local source of compost instead of vermicomp may actually suffice better.....compost itself is still rich in bacteria & fungus and it's good to have some local stuff because the F/B you'd be brewing are species which you know are capable of surviving in your local environment

Thanks God - I do have compost of our own, it's in the soil mix, along with some mushroom compost from the garden centre. Everyone (my plants) is pretty happy - we jut had to dismantle all our composting in spring due to garden enclosure construction and it hasn't really established enough yet to use anything. Our green compost is happening but I can't get to the bottom of it without help, and that's not around right now. And sourcing compost from elsewhere is not straightforward at all. I also can't bubble/brew anything. So was just seeking guidance on using this awesome worm wee I got given - it's amazing... the colour of molasses and the consistency of sump oil (once you shake it up a bit)! My girls are just about to go into flower any day - all the tops are alternating and there's a tiny pistil showing here n there .. I'm hoping a hit of this wee with some malted barley might be good for them - I've never grown like this before tho so I have nothing to go on, I guess I'll do it and find out!

.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Hi again - I've realised my last question had a problem of semantics. What I've been given is not worm tea (as my friend labeled it), it is worm leachate. SO it;s the liquid that drips out the bottom of the worm farm. I've been not sure about using it but have done so at a very dilute amount and all seems ok. One thing I have read is that it can be anaerobic - is there anyway of knowing if this is the case or not?

And - a seperate question, would an old solar powered pond pump be a good enough thing to use to aerate a tea?

Cheers good folks...

 

[bobrown14]

Did you mean to say can taste the difference there Bb?

I actually have a question about tea myself. I haven’t been able to source worm castings (believe me, I’ve tried everywhere for some months now) and my own farm has only just arrived to be set up (for one as a gift!!) so home-made castings are still some ways off. I have, however, been lucky enough to have been gifted a large bottle of worm wee. Will this make a T just as effective as castings? And what kind of strength would you recommend I mix it at? I’m thinking I should do a blend with some of the ground malted barley... and maybe some seaweed tea in the mix as well?

I’m not equipped to aerate it, I’m hoping it’ll be fine after let sit for an hour or 2.


Cheers
.

Yes my gosh I'm a wiener ... hopefully everyone's brain translated what I wrote properly. Power of suggestion.. I'm suggesting dork me!

Liquid worm castings... you will get that with a worm farm too and usually they provide a way to collect it for use in the garden.

Worm stuff.. going to be pretty darn hard to hurt a plant with it! I don't have any ratio for you but I will say you wont hurt your plants even if you over use it.

I would use say 1/4 cup to a gallon of water .. can foiler that on too!! There's actually bacteria on the leaves much like there are beneficial bacteria on our skin.

You could probably use a 1/4 cup of the worm juice to a gallon or 2 of water, add in 1 oz of ground fine malted barley. You don't need to aerate just water in and/or foiler on... None of these teas absolutely need air. I've made plenty of ACT with a large wooden spoon as my air pump. Stir a few times and let it sit over night and stir again and water. That's when I get lazy.. I actually keep a few of them in the fridge that are not aerated.

Kelp - re-hydrated
Nettle tea
Horse tail fern tea

Those 3 ^^^ I always have some in the fridge in a mason jar and use them as foilers together and/or separately depending on mood.

The aeration thing adds some dissolved oxygen which is helpful for the micro-organisms to reproduce, but not a requirement for plants. The oxygen also promotes aerobic bacteria ... anaerobic bacteria will kill plants so we infuse oxygen so the goodies out perform the baddies. IF your tea starts to smell like poop - dump it outside near a tree.