1000w Ebb & Gro - 10 Easyryders (Ak47 X LR#2)

[Pop Kulture]

I can't offer much technical advice but I will send positive thoughts your way -

I have some Easyryders (Ak47 X LR#2) seeds and I'm eager to see how this turns out.

 

[lilgreenman]

Are you able to get to the roots of one of them to see how they look without damaging the plant? If so, how do they look? Should be white and healthy and - especially with a low-strength nutrient regime, fairly well developed for the size of the plants.

Speaking of your nutrients, do you need 36% of it to consist of Ca/Mg? Have you checked the pH at the point where the solution drains from the containers to make sure that you don't have any "mini-spikes?"

And have you calibrated your pH and EC/TDS meter recently just to make sure that the readings you're getting actually reflect reality?

As mentioned, it would most likely not hurt a thing to increase your overall nutrient strength. If you were to do it in stages, you could always back off slightly if you saw signs of nutrient burn.

Another thing: I think you stated your temperature was 77°F? I assume since you listed one temperature that it was your lights-on temperature (measured where?). It doesn't look to be a temperature-related issue, but just out of curiosity, what's the lights-off minimum temperature of your plant's environment? Your reservoir? One or both of them aren't sitting on a cold bare basement floor or anything, are they?

Good luck on your grow!

1. Yes I am able to pull the 2 gallon pots out of the inserts and there are plenty of white and furry roots growing out of the bottom of every pot (even the smallest ones)

2. Well, I emailed Advanced Nutrients customer service and they told me I should have at least 150ppm cal/mag for all plants when using their Sensi products with R/O water

3. There are small mini spikes in the Ph floods, this is a problem which appears to be lessening in severity over time (result of salt buildups on my hydroton rocks which is almost gone). I flood the pots at 5.6 and it'll come back at 5.65. I understand that ph difference of a greater extent can result in shock but I doubt this is the reason for my wilting because .05 ph change isn't anything major.

4. My Hanna 98129 was recently calibrated using 4.00 and 7.01 ph solutions along with 1500ppm calibration solution. It's perfectly accurate down to the 100th of a ph point

5. I have spent the last few days bumping my nutes up to 800, then 900, then 1020. When I flooded with 1020ppm water the water returned from the flood with 980 so I know they are using a large bit of nutrients (or at least it appears that way). However, this had no effect on the plants' overall health and so today I did a fresh water flush with a small bit of FloraKleen. Flooded with that solution (5.8 ph) twice for 15 minutes each time, didn't seem to do much.
I have diluted my nutrient solution back down to 750 for the time being until I get this figured out because I don't want to stress them anymore than need be.

6. Temperature was my 2nd suspicion (right after overwatering). My 77 temp is measured at the canopy (tallest plant now 13''). 73 at the base of the plants (where they meet the hydroton rocks). I've got a nighttime temp of 56. I don't think thats too low but I could be wrong (I understand the tolerance for temp change is somewhat strain dependent).
Temperature of the water in my res stays around 57-60 degrees. I'm pretty sure that's about perfect.
Do you think I would see improvement if I upped the res temps? Couldn't hurt to try, we'll see in a couple days.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Certainly appears that you're covering all the bases.

1. Yes I am able to pull the 2 gallon pots out of the inserts and there are plenty of white and furry roots growing out of the bottom of every pot (even the smallest ones)

Didn't look (from the pictures of the plants) like you'd find anything wrong, but it's best to check everything that you can - which it looks like you've tried to do.

2. Well, I emailed Advanced Nutrients customer service and they told me I should have at least 150ppm cal/mag for all plants when using their Sensi products with R/O water

If they recommend at least 150ppm for all strains, then why in the world don't they just include it to begin with? Wait, I wasn't thinking. Not everyone uses pure water and for those who don't, the amount of Ca can vary considerably (if I remember correctly, I've got more of it in my tap water than a lot of people have total dissolved solids in theirs, lol). It's useful I suppose that you can get email support from them - and that, since their entire product-line is geared towards cannabis, they should be able to give you specific information.

3. There are small mini spikes in the Ph floods, this is a problem which appears to be lessening in severity over time (result of salt buildups on my hydroton rocks which is almost gone). I flood the pots at 5.6 and it'll come back at 5.65. I understand that ph difference of a greater extent can result in shock but I doubt this is the reason for my wilting because .05 ph change isn't anything major.

Nah, your plants are feeding. Removal of certain nutrients (through uptake) will cause the pH of the solution to rise. Small increases like that are a good thing.

4. My Hanna 98129 was recently calibrated using 4.00 and 7.01 ph solutions along with 1500ppm calibration solution. It's perfectly accurate down to the 100th of a ph point

I'm not a big fan of Hanna, but that's just one of those things (I don't like pistachios or golf, either). A couple of (other) Hanna meters made it into my 1700 page USABlueBook catalog (or as I like to call it, the "I want everything I see" book) so it's probably safe to say that the company is at least partially considered in the professional lab world. The main thing is that it looks like a good meter, has +/- .05pH accuracy, you've had no problems with calibration... And it's a battery-powered handheld so I assume it's not getting any false readings due to any possible interference from your ballasts or other devices. (Someone here last year had trouble with a 24/7 ac tri-meter because of - I think - his electronic ballasts; and the thing was giving him faulty - but consistent - readings, so it took him a while to figure it out.)

5. I have spent the last few days bumping my nutes up to 800, then 900, then 1020. When I flooded with 1020ppm water the water returned from the flood with 980 so I know they are using a large bit of nutrients (or at least it appears that way). However, this had no effect on the plants' overall health and so today I did a fresh water flush with a small bit of FloraKleen. Flooded with that solution (5.8 ph) twice for 15 minutes each time, didn't seem to do much.
I have diluted my nutrient solution back down to 750 for the time being until I get this figured out because I don't want to stress them anymore than need be.

Moving it back and forth might (possibly?) also be considered to be stressful, but I don't know as long as it's in range. It's still higher than it was and the plants were surviving then and it's not high enough I assume to cause your plants to show signs of burn or even close to it, so you're probably well within range.

6. Temperature was my 2nd suspicion (right after overwatering). My 77 temp is measured at the canopy (tallest plant now 13''). 73 at the base of the plants (where they meet the hydroton rocks). I've got a nighttime temp of 56. I don't think thats too low but I could be wrong (I understand the tolerance for temp change is somewhat strain dependent).
Temperature of the water in my res stays around 57-60 degrees. I'm pretty sure that's about perfect.
Do you think I would see improvement if I upped the res temps? Couldn't hurt to try, we'll see in a couple days.

Temperature tolerance is very much strain dependent. For example, some strains will actually survive a (very mild) frost - but equatorial sativas sure won't, lol. It can even vary from one plant to another, I think. Where I used to live I had an Iboza riparia - an African medicinal plant used in treating fevers and headaches (gonorrhea and malaria too, but I've not had the occasion to test it for those <KNOCKS ON WOOD>) with antibacterial and antifungal properties. Smells great too. Well, it smells, lol. You either love it or hate it. Anyway, it grew outdoors and grew well & lived several years through Winters that got down to 0°F a few times (the owner of the herb/ornamental/medicinal/spiritual/etc. nursery was rather surprised) each year. I didn't think to take a cutting when I moved, so I just got another one from the same nursery (and the same original mother, most likely) and planted it here. The next Winter it only got down to I think 19°F once and the thing died on me! (I had sense enough to take a cutting that time and it's now a small houseplant.) But I digress, and badly...

I think I'd up the minimum reservoir temperature a slight bit. Maybe 62°F-65°F? I don't believe you're causing harm, but you might see more growth in response. I've felt in the past that I hurt some soil(sic) plants by watering with water that was in the mid-50s, but that could have been because the ambient temperature was well above that.

I'm as perplexed as you are. I hope that you can nail it down and that it doesn't affect the outcome of your grow. Kind of a dumb question, maybe, but have you tried emailing the breeder to ask their advice as far as best ranges for temperature, nutrient strength/ratio suggestions, and the like? You never know, but if you include pictures, they might (possibly) reply with, "Yeah that happened to me because..."

Luck to you!

 

[noreastfog]

Hey Lil G Man, I actually found your journal before I realized you had PM'ed me. You are actually already getting advise from far more experienced than I.

Your little ones are looking quite good. My best "guess" would lean towards a light issue. 1st I've never gone more the 18/6 and when I've gone to my HPS (older plants) they sometimes droop near the end of their "on" cycle. When I read through it seemed the only thing you had "changed" was the light.

My flood cycle is 30 mins / 6 times / 24 hrs. Veg through finish. I doubt you are over watering.

Relax, my biggest errors was over reacting to relatively small issues. Trying too many things at once you'll never know what the issue or solution was.

I know you have an aggressive objective for harvest, my first priority is a trouble free grow, that being said everything I do follows the middle of the road.

I'm sure they'll perk up! I'll be watching

NEF

 

[Dain Bramage]

Not a hydro guy so all I can do is hope things turn around for ya.Had a lot of luck with this strain in soil useing advanced's three part system.

 

[lilgreenman]

Nor East Fog - I really appreciate you stopping by, I appreciate having people like you and viper, people with experience with Ebb & Gro, stopping by my journal for help

Tortured Soul- you too, you've been great at helping me rack my brain for any and every possibility

DainBrammage- I've got good news


It was a rather clear and obvious potassium deficency

These plants are autoflowering and DO have preflowers and I just wasn't sure when to add the bloom nutes.
They have been starving for potassium this whole time.

I replaced my res with tap water and the following - 800ppm grow nutes, 400ppm bloom nutes and 1.5 tsp of Big Bud (about 200 ppm)

After the first watering the ppm went from 1350 to 1020 (in fifteen minutes!)

Potassium helps with water regulation and that explains why my plants looked so overwatered

Potassium also can cause yellowing , mottling, burnt tips, new growth curling, and necrotic spots on the older fan leaves, all of which I had

After my res replacement I went in the grow room and all the leaves were perky as hell and standing straight up! Perfect!

I've created schedule for my next grow with exact amounts and after my experience with this round, I think next round will easily hit 1gr./watt



Thanks to everyone who tried to help! Problem Solved

 

[Dee House]

thats good news green

 

[Saturn]

Glad you figured it out!

I'd like to comment on a few things.

The relative humidity being that low in veg hasn't been a problem for me, where it is a problem is during flowering. It won't bulk up with the good smelly sticky stuff and is instead rag weed. However, others believe it is important in all stages and I agree, it's just that I've found the veg cycle is less critical as long as they have enough water. The low RH will create the need to water more often.

Temps too high are also part of the rag weed syndrome.


I'm no scientist and can only go on what I've seen happen from different tests, I don't mind being corrected, in fact I would appreciate it.

Low temp? I don't know but I'm going with 65f being the lowest and 82f being the highest. 78 would be better. I think 56 is too low by a lot IMO.
But then again every strain is different.

The exhaust fan: Some of this is what I've seen and some of it what I've read. Constant exhaust fan makes it hard to manage other conditions such as RH and temp. Running it on a timer is the way to go. You can do whatever seems works best of course, you can go 15min per hour, 15 every two hours etc. Some insist in changing out the air in short intervals, meaning having the fan on a lot. When the lights are out the RH will go up a lot so cycling the air more during dark may work out better?

I know you're not having heat issues however........
Imagine having a heat and low humidity problem, you have to exhaust 24/7 which creates a low RH if your outside air is dry like mine. So, pull air in to cool or don't to maintain higher RH? The higher RH you have the higher temps they can handle, or is recommended I should say. CO2 being another weapon against heat. But if you exhaust you lose the CO2......................if you can afford to buy all this stuff...... So, to combat high heat and low humidity you need RH up to a max of about %75 RH and CO2. In temps over 85f you wouldn't want to go any higher because you could then have a black mold problem as well as powder mold. Sorry I"m rambling here a bit.....

I'm referencing an article in urban grower magazine about RH. RH is something I've had a lot of problems with being too low.

I"m afraid powder mold could become an issue if not cycling air threw tent. If you need more humidity you may consider a fogger/humidifier to bring RH up and then you can run the exhaust a bit more, not a lot more but whatever seems right. Free standing humidifiers are too big for a tent, well most of them anyways.

Bottom line for me is this: between 55% and 65% RH is good and should yield good results as long as the temps are within reason. Start going above or below and you may have issues.

I hope some of this can be of help to somebody.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I know you're not having heat issues however........
Imagine having a heat and low humidity problem, you have to exhaust 24/7 which creates a low RH if your outside air is dry like mine. So, pull air in to cool or don't to maintain higher RH? The higher RH you have the higher temps they can handle, or is recommended I should say. CO2 being another weapon against heat. But if you exhaust you lose the CO2......................if you can afford to buy all this stuff...... So, to combat high heat and low humidity you need RH up to a max of about %75 RH and CO2. In temps over 85f you wouldn't want to go any higher because you could then have a black mold problem as well as powder mold. Sorry I"m rambling here a bit.....

I'm referencing an article in urban grower magazine about RH. RH is something I've had a lot of problems with being too low.

Interesting. Plants transpire moisture on a hot day (up to thousands of gallons per day for large trees) in nature's form of evaporative cooling as a way to shed heat (and, if the RH of the environment is low, to cool their surrounding environment). I'd think that if anything, this process would be much more efficient in relatively low-humidity environments than in (again, relatively) high ones - just like how a swamp-cooler works much better in the desert-southwest than it does in places like New York City (where they're probably not even sold).

Does Urban Grower have a stringent fact-vetting procedure in its editorial process and can we take the article as fact, or are their editors more concerned with grammar, spelling, and layout of the articles?

 

[lilgreenman]

Glad you figured it out!

I'd like to comment on a few things.

The relative humidity being that low in veg hasn't been a problem for me, where it is a problem is during flowering. It won't bulk up with the good smelly sticky stuff and is instead rag weed. However, others believe it is important in all stages and I agree, it's just that I've found the veg cycle is less critical as long as they have enough water. The low RH will create the need to water more often.

Temps too high are also part of the rag weed syndrome.


I'm no scientist and can only go on what I've seen happen from different tests, I don't mind being corrected, in fact I would appreciate it.

Low temp? I don't know but I'm going with 65f being the lowest and 82f being the highest. 78 would be better. I think 56 is too low by a lot IMO.
But then again every strain is different.

The exhaust fan: Some of this is what I've seen and some of it what I've read. Constant exhaust fan makes it hard to manage other conditions such as RH and temp. Running it on a timer is the way to go. You can do whatever seems works best of course, you can go 15min per hour, 15 every two hours etc. Some insist in changing out the air in short intervals, meaning having the fan on a lot. When the lights are out the RH will go up a lot so cycling the air more during dark may work out better?

I know you're not having heat issues however........
Imagine having a heat and low humidity problem, you have to exhaust 24/7 which creates a low RH if your outside air is dry like mine. So, pull air in to cool or don't to maintain higher RH? The higher RH you have the higher temps they can handle, or is recommended I should say. CO2 being another weapon against heat. But if you exhaust you lose the CO2......................if you can afford to buy all this stuff...... So, to combat high heat and low humidity you need RH up to a max of about %75 RH and CO2. In temps over 85f you wouldn't want to go any higher because you could then have a black mold problem as well as powder mold. Sorry I"m rambling here a bit.....

I'm referencing an article in urban grower magazine about RH. RH is something I've had a lot of problems with being too low.

I"m afraid powder mold could become an issue if not cycling air threw tent. If you need more humidity you may consider a fogger/humidifier to bring RH up and then you can run the exhaust a bit more, not a lot more but whatever seems right. Free standing humidifiers are too big for a tent, well most of them anyways.

Bottom line for me is this: between 55% and 65% RH is good and should yield good results as long as the temps are within reason. Start going above or below and you may have issues.

I hope some of this can be of help to somebody.

Wow, so much info here. I don't necessarily agree with it all but I appreicate the time it took to write that so thank you for your 2C.

The part where you state the two best ways to battle heat is a bit confusing but still interesting. Thanks again.

In case anyone's wondering the plants are sexy as hell and I removed the CMH light (plants under that light have much less budsite development) and centered the 1000w light and cranked it up to 1000w from 600 (adjustable ballast).

After the next res change we should really start to see the buddage happening (it'll be alll bloom nutes and some Big Bud) so take your seats ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Saturn]

Regarding heat: It's a balancing act and you have to basically pick your poison so to speak. All the methods I'm talking about is without AC, even with it's still a balancing act.

Looking forward to more pics of the flourishing girls/ladies.

 

[lilgreenman]

Day 38?​

Plants seem to be healing but some are still pretty F-ed up. Leaf curling is still present, but some plants are much worse than others. There are obviously two phenos in my room, 5 of each. A shorter less vulnerable and a taller more susceptible version. The shorter ones have almost no signs of discomfort but I can't say that for the others.
I've got a 400whps on the left and 600whps on the right
I also shortened their day from 20 hours to 18 hours in hopes to get some buddage goin on.

I should also add that the plants start their days perky as SHIT and get more and more droopy and curly as the day goes on. This has occured every day for the past ten days.


Ph 5.65
Ppm 1020 (800 bloom nutes 220 Big Bud)
Humidity = 25-60%
Temp 60-78

 

[Dee House]

nice job green

 

[Dain Bramage]

I would keep to to 20 hrs. of light they would flower under 24 hours of light if you let them.By cutting back on the amount lumme's you will wind up with less weight in the end.Look on line and you can find the THE JOINT DOCTOR'S feeding schedule he uses advanced nutraints for his grow's i read someplace...peace

 

[lilgreenman]

I would keep to to 20 hrs. of light they would flower under 24 hours of light if you let them.By cutting back on the amount lumme's you will wind up with less weight in the end.Look on line and you can find the THE JOINT DOCTOR'S feeding schedule he uses advanced nutraints for his grow's i read someplace...peace

Thanks for the tip man but I'm going to save the electricity. I've read in multiple places that you can cut to 18 without any loss in yield. Plus there is a grow journal over on -------- where a guy grows out 8 easys under 18/6 and pulled over a pound out from under a 400 so I think i'll be fine on the yield front as is. :roortoke:

 

[lilgreenman]

nice job green

hey thanks man. I like your "high" picture. Classic.

 

[bud brother]

Hi LGM turn a lite off till flower time irrigate more often maybe every 4 hrs.Check those buckets for dead standing water with roots in it not good pythiuym or whatever root disorder.Longer time between feedings lets the nutes concentrate causing curly leaves droopiness so on.Its the one thing you havent tried yet.If i read everthing proper.How do you keep temps down with no air cooling on those lights? Big exhast fan hard to keep RH up with so much heat in a small tent . i grew some great plants in a 4x4 tent with a 400 hun Way easier to control heat and RH Next grow i switched over to a 6 hun and had to air cool the lite to keep door closed and control heat and RH.You probably thought of all this.Any how hope it helps a bit .

 

[Dee House]

hey thanks man. I like your "high" picture. Classic.

thats what i was thinking

 

[lilgreenman]

Hi LGM turn a lite off till flower time irrigate more often maybe every 4 hrs.Check those buckets for dead standing water with roots in it not good pythiuym or whatever root disorder.Longer time between feedings lets the nutes concentrate causing curly leaves droopiness so on.Its the one thing you havent tried yet.If i read everthing proper.How do you keep temps down with no air cooling on those lights? Big exhast fan hard to keep RH up with so much heat in a small tent . i grew some great plants in a 4x4 tent with a 400 hun Way easier to control heat and RH Next grow i switched over to a 6 hun and had to air cool the lite to keep door closed and control heat and RH.You probably thought of all this.Any how hope it helps a bit .

BC Grow Thanks for stopping by. You've got some good info.

I really do agree with you about the watering frequency. In fact, I changed it to water once every 3 hours while lights are on about 2 days ago. Droopiness has not changed but the PPM's are still going down compared to how much water they are drinking so i think i'm going to up the nutrient stregnth a bit too.

I like your advice about a smaller light but I'm afriad a 400 with these 10 babies won't cut it. the light penetration is just not enough to give me noteworthy buds. I keep my room cool by keeping the outside window open with a fan blowing that cold air in (its always below freezing where I live). So heat really isn't that big of a problem for me. It stays about 73 during the day at the base of the plants and about 55-60 at night. seems about right to me.

I'll fill you all in on the status of the plants tomorrow when I do another picture update. They are growing quite a bit still! whoopie for flowering nutes.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I just thought of a couple of things which might or might not be relevant:

That below-freezing air - is any of it directly hitting the plants? I wouldn't think that very cold air hitting them would be appreciated regardless of the ambient temperature.

And... How hard are those fans blowing? If it's an extreme thing and temperatures don't require it, you might try slowing them down. Obviously you want some air movement on the plants, but it might be possible that they're getting too much. Then again, they're not transpiring a great deal of water - although if their stomata are closed due to low temperatures part of the time, that would interfere with it. I don't know, lol - just muttering to myself in print form.