400 Watt MH/HPS Light Set For Sale

[Richard Richardson]

Precisely my point. Now, back to my original question: How do LEDs compare with CFLs actual draw for an output of, say 100 Watts output? Also is there a heat issue beyond that of CFLs? For CFLs it is approx 25% draw to output.

The 100 watts rating is the "brightness to our eyes value" compared to a traditional 100watt Edison bulb, which is useless for growing because most of the "light" output is infra red aka heat. Our eyes are sensitive to the bits of light that plants are not (yellow/green) so a bulb that looks bright to us is not to a plant.

Your 23 watt cfl gives out a beautiful spectrum of light for a plant, nice peaks of red and blue, but also green and yellow, so that we can see too. It looks to us like what we used to call a 100 watt bulb. This is only the yellow bit of the spectrum and has no relevance for the plant. The plant gets 23 watts worth of light.

Cfls give off a diffuse light, so they have to be placed as close as possible and adjusted, whereas LEDs emit a focused beam which can travel further. And use electricity much more effectively.

 

[AKgramma]

So far you all have gone way over my head with TMI and still not answered my question. I KNOW they have to use the correct spectrums. I don't have a clue what PAR is and I don't think I really do. I just want it simple. And I don't need any comparisons with HPS, as the heat issue is completely out of the question.

1) CFL's nominally output 100 WATT for 23 Watts pull at the socket. That means I'm nominally getting about 4X the amount of output for the amount of electricity I'm paying for.

2) LEDS, from what I can interpret from all the technobabble given is that they give you only 2X the amount of output. Is this what you are trying to tell me?

I'm not going to invest in a system that is going to raise my electric bill another $100 a month. Not on my retirement income.

What about 4' flourescents? Do they make tubes in daylight AND soft white? Will they perform as well as CFL's? (going old-school here) Do I need to use grow lights?

edit: Bottom line: Which system is the most EFFICIENT electricity-wise? Which system costs the least to run?

 

[Richard Richardson]

I don't have a clue what PAR is and I don't think I really do. I just want it simple.

Lumens are for Humans, PAR is for Plants - This means that, although they both mean the same breadth of the light spectrum, "Lumens" is weighted towards yellow (what we see best) while "PAR" (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) is just the same spectrum, but unweighted. A lux meter measures "brightness to our eyes" of the light between 400 and 700 nanometers a PAR meter measures every part of the spectrum between 400 and 700 nanometers fairly equally. The rest is marketing.

1) CFL's nominally output 100 WATT for 23 Watts pull at the socket. That means I'm nominally getting about 4X the amount of output for the amount of electricity I'm paying for.

They output the same "Lumens", not PAR. The 100 watts only refers to the perceived Lumen output of the incandescent lamp, nothing more.

Fluorescent bulbs use about 75% less energy than traditional incandescents to produce the same brightness to our eyes.

This means that only 25% of the energy used by traditional incandescents to produce the light we see, the rest is radiant heat.

of that 25 percent, most of it is green, yellow and red, very little blue. This means that Incandescent bulbs and "Brightness" should not be used as benchmarks for your electricity draw.

[video]

2) LEDS, from what I can interpret from all the technobabble given is that they give you only 2X the amount of output. Is this what you are trying to tell me?

LEDs are more efficient, so you get much more bang for your buck as far as electricity usage goes.

LEDs have the best spectrum of all for plants, as far as watts/light ratio is concerned.

I'm not going to invest in a system that is going to raise my electric bill another $100 a month. Not on my retirement income.

What about 4' flourescents? Do they make tubes in daylight AND soft white? Will they perform as well as CFL's? (going old-school here) Do I need to use grow lights?

edit: Bottom line: Which system is the most EFFICIENT electricity-wise? Which system costs the least to run?

The start up cost for LEDs is high, but the running costs are low.

You get closer to 1 watt of useable light output for 1 watt of electricity than any other form of lighting, including Cfls.

 

[Major PITA]

So far you all have gone way over my head with TMI and still not answered my question. I KNOW they have to use the correct spectrums. I don't have a clue what PAR is and I don't think I really do. I just want it simple. And I don't need any comparisons with HPS, as the heat issue is completely out of the question.

The reason I bring up HPS is because of the OP's questions. I'm hoping he finds it useful. I agree HPS gets hot, but I find they are also the easiest to get rid of that heat. I'm not trying to make this more complicated than it has to be, but there are some fundamental misconceptions with your questions. The only reason I brought up PAR is to help you pick the most efficient type of lighting (for growing).

1) CFL's nominally output 100 WATT for 23 Watts pull at the socket. That means I'm nominally getting about 4X the amount of output for the amount of electricity I'm paying for.

No. This is only (partly) true if you have been growing with incandescent/Edison bulbs. No one does that (I hope).

2) LEDS, from what I can interpret from all the technobabble given is that they give you only 2X the amount of output. Is this what you are trying to tell me?

No. I am throwing out a wild guess as to how CFLs compare to LEDs or HPS. I think LEDs are twice as efficient as CFLs (a 23W CFL could be replaced by 12W of LED light).

edit: Bottom line: Which system is the most EFFICIENT electricity-wise? Which system costs the least to run?

LEDs. The downside is the up-front cost.

 

[cmay]

I always thought the MH/HPS light set ups cost more then Led or from what i see at least.

 

[Major PITA]

I always thought the MH/HPS light set ups cost more then Led or from what i see at least.

Nope - not even close. HPS/MH will cost a little more to run, but the purchase price is WAY less.
IMO the cheapest quality solution is a 600W HPS setup. For under $100 complete there is nothing else out there that compares - at least not that I've seen or heard of. The bulbs need to be replaced and they use a little more electricity, but still...

I actually need the heat in the winter and with a cool tube, it is easier to get the heat out of a grow room with HPS than it is with CFLs or LEDs.

 

[Papageno]

Grow Light Reflector BUYER'S GUIDE | What lamp reflector is best for? What Hood for The Most Yield - YouTube

 

[Papageno]

I agree with above that the reflector in question is a great bang for the buck. I would think about the enclosure and then decide what type fits that and the ventilation best. Then that may limit you to just one type of setup.

There are things to cut corners on and places to save money. Lighting is not one. You want the best you can afford that are right for the system.

That video above is only about HID. LEDs are great too but more expensive up front.


I personally feel like I put so much into this I would not like to worry about my lighting being 25% less effective then it could be. I will get the top of the line lighting and then I can potentially get great results.

 

[Mcjoint]

If you like like to save a few bucks on your light bill look into gas Lantern routine. I use it and it's great

 

[Papageno]

I have often wondered if that increases veg time. So if you do GL, how do you feel about it. Does GL impact veg time? Would leaving it on 24 hours get you to bloom faster? Always been curious about the veg time impact on that one but never found someone to ask.

 

[STIHL LOGGER]

I run just north of 600 watts of 4 spectrum CFL'S.. Cost me 15 bucks a month including fans and such.. Temp delta raised in my tent 5 degrees (F) for every 150 watts. Im in a 4x5x4 reflectix diy tent. No doubt id be able to do what i do with a 400 watt HID but with the cfls I DONT need a 7 foot tall tent. It was a winter project just to do 2 plants a few winters back and I just wanted to see what the CFLs could do.. Dollar for dollar... If you have a 2x3x4 id run 18 cfls.. Thats a hand and a half over 400 watts.. ya have spectrum versatility.. Practicality wise however.. Im just being an asshole and running 36 cfls.. Theres no need for that.. Lolz. They do work! But keep it on a small scale. You cant commercially grow under cfls. If ya want a 2 plant 6 oz head stash... ya go for it. Other than that scoop up a 400 - 600 watt mh/hps hid or maybe a pair of our sponsor MARS HYDRO 300 watt LEDs. Either way, growin is growin.. It all bubbles down to your SPECIFIC needs and budget. Dont go too big if you arent prepared. Itll lead to a very negative experience. Going broke to save some cheddar is not cool man.

 

[Mcjoint]

I have often wondered if that increases veg time. So if you do GL, how do you feel about it. Does GL impact veg time? Would leaving it on 24 hours get you to bloom faster? Always been curious about the veg time impact on that one but never found someone to ask.

I honestly wouldn't know, this is my first grow and I went straight into GLR and DWC. There is a guy on these forums that goes by the username icemud and he seems very knowledgeable about the subject, he also has a lot of youtube videos of his grows using GLR. I can however share my experience with you.

I planted the seed on 2/7/2016 and broke ground on 2/10/2016. I just took this picture about 5 mins ago. the strain is skunk 47, which is suppose to a short (26" tall), fast growing plant. I just put the wood frame with the strings on yesterday to try help the bottom branches catch up with the top. The frame dementions are 29.5" x 15" ID and there is a 10" gap from the top of the bucket to the strings.

Also you must take into consideration that this is my first grow and I have made many mistakes and have stunted the plant more than once. as far as lights go I am using a mars hydro 300 led and a generic version of the mars hydro 300 and i got off of ebay, I believe the brand is popular grow. The ebay light is alot more purple/red than the mars hydro. I believe both lights together draw around 285ish watts, between my lights, fans and air pump I am drawing 310 watts from the wall. My last two power bills have been around 85 dollars. I have my exhaust fan on a veriac and lowered the fan speed quiet a bit, and my isolating fan is a small personal computer desk fan and can run off of AA batteries or usb. My air pump is rated at around 5 watts i think. I just flipped to flower two days ago.