AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal - Ebb&Flow - Bubblelicious 2013

[AfricanGrower]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

>>>ok..now i am completely lost ...no one else has weighed in ..so i guess i'm the loss one..how do you know if your plants are eating...and if yes..how much...why is your ppm increasing on run off..if runoff ppm is larger than res ppm...won't that raise the ppm in the res..so you have to adjust your res ppm...

Thanks for your concern Miwa, to answer your questions, the plants have been getting a high dosage of tap water that runs at a pH of 7.5-8.0. With nutes added to this mix, I started a nutrient solution with an average PPM of 220 (and I'm guessing a pH of 7.0). From DAY 8 up until DAY 14 I had a decrease of PPM in the runoff of both plants.

The past two waterings the PPM seemed to have stayed the same or increased as it did today. Though I am worried (I wouldn't be sane if I didn't) I have to trust that getting my plants runoff from a 7.0-7.5 range to a 6.1-6.4 range in pH is the the first step into getting these ladies back up on their feet again, GROWING GREEN

By the way Miwa, I have not started using my res system, I hand water once a day and mix only about 2-3 days nutrient advanced. As I am still in 1 pint clay pots and the system fits a 3.5 gal nursery pot, I plan on transplanting them into 1 gallon pots and have them just sit in the 3.5 gal's like this:

Then I could give the system a test run with the pots just 'sitting' in the bigger pot without a catastrophe!

>>>using co2 will increase a plant's ability to withstand hotter temps. also did a 420 search on h2o2 uses and found some great artiles in the archives. h2o2 will now be a part of every feeding in both soil and hydro.

I am going to be using a fellow grower's method of champagne/beer yeast in a gallon jug and make some nice brew for me at the same time! Anyone here distill alcohol before?

Sky, I have heard good and bad things about H2O2 when it comes to hydro systems. I think I might just shoot Capn a PM since he has the most experience with this type of E&F setup. But in the mean time I will reopen my search for quality information on the use of H2O2.

 

[Skybound]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

AG, I'm at work now so my access is limited to my droid, but when I get home and back into my studies, I will locate the article I read last night. It was so informative and really I need to read it again for better comprehension. When I find it, I'll link it to this thread for you to peruse at your leisure.

 

[TheCapn]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

Hey AG! I just read your entire journal. I should have stopped by sooner. 3 pages and we are still in the seedling stage; this is going to be a popular journal. What you're doing here, will spark the interest of many first time growers. Here are some comments.

I love the cool tube and the apollo brand bulbs. These bulbs are well made and CHEAP!

The tent looks great! I don't see why you couldn't produce a couple 6oz plants in there if you let them veg long enough. It will be a jungle in there. Your tent with the 400W cool tube is almost an exact replica of my old veg tent setup.

That outlet you tapped into from the adjacent wall... is that your neighbor's outlet in the next apartment?

You are doing very well with your seedlings, and I bet you will be ready to move up a pot size soon, but resist the temptation to move up to the 3.5 gal nursery pot right away. You have a long time before you need to worry about putting them in the ebb and flow set up. Move up pot sizes every couple weeks, even if you have to use two liter bottles or whatever you can find. They look happy. I like your attention to detail. But don't get too crazy. Rockwool is easier than dirt. There is no need to measure the PH or PPM of the runoff water. Just make up your 220ppm (tap water) + 250ppm (nutrients) = 450-500ppm water at 5.8, and water once a day, generously, with it, and throw away the run off.

I got your PM about h2o2. The best thing I can tell you is, for root health, choose one method or the other. Live (mycos, aquashield, great white, etc) OR Sterile (h2o2, dutchmaster zone). Don't mix the two; (h2o2 will kill any beneficial bacteria), and decide what you want to do now, and stick with it. If it were me, I would get a small bottle of aquashield, and maybe some kind of mycos (orca, great white) and go with that. When growing in rockwool, you don't have to worry TOO MUCH about root disease, but it's still a good idea to use one method or the other. Beneficial bacteria may seem like "snake oil" but it really does work. Read my article in my signature on "live or sterile".... and read the last post on that thread to see what happened when I tried to switch from beneficials to sterile.

One note... if you go with beneficial bacteria, don't add it to your bucket of water that you use to water with. When you first add it, it will come alive, but if it sits in the bucket with no air, it will die again. Even if you add an airstone, there is no "food" in the bucket so it will die after a day or too. Add it to your cup when you water every day, and pour it right into the root base.

Are you going to build a 2' x 4' scrog net when they get big?

Looking good. I'm subscribed and cant wait to see them go.

 

[stealthgrow]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

+reps for all your DIY work AG. Nice setup, your plants should thrive once you get PH issues sorted.
Good luck.

PS. I use H202 in both my grows, I add 2ml/gal. once per week when I top up water lvls in the reservoir. Keeps the roots nice and clean, root pests are non-existant and the plants themselves seem to really love it. As you can see In my grows, its not hurting the plants that's for sure.

 

[WildRosebud]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

So much missing reps for you AG.... We need to bombard you with reps yer setup is clean , I love the PC grow and I love the hydro diy and I absolutely love the way you set up that dang tent , blends in well looks like it belongs! Inspiring for sure

 

[AfricanGrower]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

>>>Hey AG! I just read your entire journal. I should have stopped by sooner. 3 pages and we are still in the seedling stage; this is going to be a popular journal. What you're doing here, will spark the interest of many first time growers. Here are some comments.

Thanks for stopping by Capn, I hope to gain as much knowledge and experience as I am able to pass on from this grow, and who knows maybe even write a book with all of you in it one day

>>>Are you going to build a 2' x 4' scrog net when they get big?

Yes, I plan on using some gardening twine and utilizing the 4 frame bars in my tent as support.

As for the Apollo Brand, this is my first time using them, but I have read good reviews about them considering the price of other 'high-end' bulbs. And the outlet that I tapped into is not from he adjacent apartment (but that would be hilarious now wouldn't it ). It is from my living room circuit of my apartment. I share an apartment, and the way the lease works out is that each tenant is allotted an 'electric cap' (kW/h) to each bedroom so that makes the shared living area free game for growers on the prowl for electricity

I don't plan on transplanting into the 3.5 gallon nursery pots up until I'm close to transitioning into a 12/12 schedule. So I should have a total of at least 3 transplants before the final 3.5 gal. As for the PPM, I needed to know precisely how much nutrient build-up I had going on in each pot. Without a pH meter, this was my only insurance that I could at least prevent a deficiency but still not fully prevent a lockout as seen recently with my seedlings. I am now using distilled water for hand watering (but when I get the system turned on, I will switch back to 175PPM tap water) so would you still recommend a 450-500 PPM of nutrient without the added PPM of the tap water?

As I have read through almost all your articles I can truly say most of my setup and hydroponics knowledge has been inspired by you bro Your article on live are sterile environments was also on my read list before I got this far and I had planned on going with a bag of Ancient Forest and Aqua Shield and making a brew from that. Was a mycos essential in the list of ingredients you posted or am I safe with these two and some molasses?

The main reason I asked the question on H2O2 is because I am still building a 'style' of growing in hydro and with that I want to be able to try as many different methods as possible and fit the ones I prefer best together! My though process on the live environment is this: If I somehow get a bacterial infection during my grow I would have to use means to eradicate the bad bacteria, but if I already have good bacteria living with my roots then the chance of a bad bacteria outbreak is more minimal than a sterile one.

>>>+reps for all your DIY work AG. Nice setup, your plants should thrive once you get PH issues sorted.
Good luck.

PS. I use H202 in both my grows, I add 2ml/gal. once per week when I top up water lvls in the reservoir. Keeps the roots nice and clean, root pests are non-existant and the plants themselves seem to really love it. As you can see In my grows, its not hurting the plants that's for sure.

Thanks for your encouragement Stealth! I am already starting to see greener growth on both plants as they seem to be adjusting to the correct pH. I think if I go with a 'sterile' environment for my roots I might be more prone to a bad bacteria contamination due to many outside factors. I will definitely stop by your journal to note your progress

>>>So much missing reps for you AG.... We need to bombard you with reps yer setup is clean , I love the PC grow and I love the hydro diy and I absolutely love the way you set up that dang tent , blends in well looks like it belongs! Inspiring for sure

Thanks for the positive comments WildRose, I definitely want those good vibes sent my way whenever you like bro!

 

[AfricanGrower]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

Mini-Update

Today marks Day 1 of vegetative growth for the 4 bag seed sprouts I had planted on the 8th of this month. They all seem to be doing healthy and I have not watered since the rock wool had been pre-soaked in a 1 gallon solution of 1/4 Tsp of Grow Big and 1/8 Tsp of Kangaroots.

The temps are at a steady 76F and the humidity is unknown. I did not use an humidity dome this time, and still have decent results. We will see where this goes . Here are your update pics:

 

[stealthgrow]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

Yahoo Congrats man, the seedlings are on their way.
Pulling up my bean bag to get comfy.
Good luck.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

Thanks Stealth, they are going to get to know each other really well for the first couple weeks of veg. The only thing standing between them is a piece of cardboard

 

[Skybound]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

Hey, what's up AG, things appear to be moving along smoothly in your grows. Congrats on bringing your tent into the electrical age. I like your improvisation using a putty trowel to pop seeds. I suggest using something other than cardboard as dividing walls b/c the chemicals used to make the cardboard may leech out and disrupt your ph levels in there. other than that, I'm lovin it! I am slowly regaining my ability to function as a human after this past trip into the oilfield. The volatility of my job leaves me not having any concept of time and takes a big toll on the body. Recovering. Anyways, later this evening I will track down that thread I read in the archives about h202. It clearly states using h2o2 will kill all bacteria, both good and bad, so I'm guessing you can't do both live and sterile in the same environment.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

Yea that is the thing with hydroponics that I have always sort of disliked, the fact that the root system is more prone to damage! Thanks for the advice on the cardboard, and try to find that article for me as I definately want to try a sterile environment for my next grow.

Get some rest too there Sky, I will never know the grueling energy your work takes out of you a shift. Smoke a bowl and rest my friend

 

[Skybound]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

Use of Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2)

 

[AfricanGrower]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

Thanks for the read Sky, I did not realize H2O2 had that many benefits for a plants root system, especially the 'noobish' tendency to over-water! I'll be sure to try a sterile grow on the next beans I get, maybe even the bag seed sprouts if I can rig up some sort of mini-DWC with that red plaster container. I wanted to apply some of the main aspects of Don Paul's 2-litre DWC.

Time for an update.

12/09/13

I went with a flush yesterday to try and stabilize the pH even more and got great results in the runoff from today's waterings! Both Bubb A & B read at a 5.8 and new growth (including old growth) looks much greener than in previous pictures I uplaoded on here.

As I am going to be away next week I will need this system to be automated by this weekend latest so I can have some time to test it out before I go. Since these seedlings are still to small to go into the 3.5 gallon nusery pots I have deceided to hook up some tubing from the water pump to a top-feed system. Since I have no access to big retailer stores near me, I will be on the hunt for 1/2 inch fittings/PVC/Sprayer/etc I can use as a 'drip line'. I will update my journal with that once I have completed the setup.

Here are your update pictures:

EDIT: I can't seem to upload any pics right now. I'm not being taken to the processing screen and still won't do so when I click on the 'photos in queue'. I will post them as soon as I figure this out.

 

[Skybound]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

EEK, leaving for that long? Hope you have a big enough res to hold them over. Also should be concerned about ph fluctuations. Any chance you can have someone monitor this for you and at least let you know what they are on a daily basis? One thing I'm quickly learning is that pH levels in a hydro system will make or break your efforts almost instantly. Maybe it's just the noob in me, but I stress about this above all other factors in this system as it usually starts to wander away from the 5.8 I put into it almost immediately, usually into the alkaline. Maybe I should use less silica as that is a very alkaline nutrient additive. Maybe by the end of the weekend I'll suck out my res and replenish everything with less silica. Wow talking about your situation helped me better see my own. At any rate, I hope your girls are good while you're gone.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

Thanks for the read Sky, I did not realize H2O2 had that many benefits for a plants root system, especially the 'noobish' tendency to over-water! I'll be sure to try a sterile grow on the next beans I get, maybe even the bag seed sprouts if I can rig up some sort of mini-DWC with that red plaster container. I wanted to apply some of the main aspects of Don Paul's 2-litre DWC.

Time for an update.

12/09/13

I went with a flush yesterday to try and stabilize the pH even more and got great results in the runoff from today's waterings! Both Bubb A & B read at a 5.8 and new growth (including old growth) looks much greener than in previous pictures I uplaoded on here.

As I am going to be away next week I will need this system to be automated by this weekend latest so I can have some time to test it out before I go. Since these seedlings are still to small to go into the 3.5 gallon nusery pots I have deceided to hook up some tubing from the water pump to a top-feed system. Since I have no access to big retailer stores near me, I will be on the hunt for 1/2 inch fittings/PVC/Sprayer/etc I can use as a 'drip line'. I will update my journal with that once I have completed the setup.

Here are your update pictures:

EDIT: I can't seem to upload any pics right now. I'm not being taken to the processing screen and still won't do so when I click on the 'photos in queue'. I will post them as soon as I figure this out.

Bubb B:

Bubb A:

Both A & B:

 

[AfricanGrower]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

>>>EEK, leaving for that long? Hope you have a big enough res to hold them over. Also should be concerned about ph fluctuations. Any chance you can have someone monitor this for you and at least let you know what they are on a daily basis?

I'm only leaving for 2 days, 3 at most. My res is 22 gallons, but I plan on just using a 5 gallon bucket with the water pump to make a simple top feed to waste setup.

I feel just as 'noobish' as you Sky when it comes down to maintaining a steady pH! I have alot of pH swing in my nutrient solution in less than 24 hours of sitting. Usually goes from a 5.8-6.0 range to a 6.4-6.5 range. I definitely need to try and maintain pH levels for at least 2 days. What pH buffer are you using to control your pH?

>>> Wow talking about your situation helped me better see my own. At any rate, I hope your girls are good while you're gone.

Thanks and I'm glad I could spark up ideas for you and your grow. I'll stop by your journal later today

 

[Skybound]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

I came across a thread saying they use different vinegars as a down and baking soda as an up. So I added a cap full of red wine vinegar to about 3 gallon (maybe a little more) res and it plummeted to like a 4.3. I added ph up to bout 8 oz water and filled the res, cycled the system, got it to 5.3, then repeated and nailed it to 5.8 so the kids were only on the acid for maybe 10 minutes.

I went to visit my new grow space way out in the country today and start investing in the construction. The footprint is 7'6" x 8'10" and the height decreases from 8'4" -> 6'5". At the moment I am planning for a 2 site RDWC, but have a lot of wrinkles to iron out before I completely commit to that design. Either case though I will have a good space for my 2nd journal. When I came home, all the plants were a nice even shade of green with minimal nute burns. I'll water the mom and swap the res on the kids tomorrow for their final day of flowering light, then a day of complete darkness before the 12/12.

 

[s1ingblade]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

That outlet you tapped into from the adjacent wall... is that your neighbor's outlet in the next apartment?

>>>EEK, leaving for that long? Hope you have a big enough res to hold them over. Also should be concerned about ph fluctuations. Any chance you can have someone monitor this for you and at least let you know what they are on a daily basis?

I'm only leaving for 2 days, 3 at most. My res is 22 gallons, but I plan on just using a 5 gallon bucket with the water pump to make a simple top feed to waste setup.

I feel just as 'noobish' as you Sky when it comes down to maintaining a steady pH! I have alot of pH swing in my nutrient solution in less than 24 hours of sitting. Usually goes from a 5.8-6.0 range to a 6.4-6.5 range. I definitely need to try and maintain pH levels for at least 2 days. What pH buffer are you using to control your pH?

>>> Wow talking about your situation helped me better see my own. At any rate, I hope your girls are good while you're gone.

Thanks and I'm glad I could spark up ideas for you and your grow. I'll stop by your journal later today

Hey AG did i read your using Advanced Nutrients? If so there techs swear there PH Perfect blend can handle all the swings with no adjustments necessary? To be honest I dont ever adjust mine but for the longest time I grew in Soil and Soilless mediums. DWC or aero I dnt know about, but there techs advise against any adjusting, was wondering if this applies to yours.
I'd like to invite you our journal, the links in my signature. Nice to meet you. I am about to start flowering for the first time in the grow cubes this Sunday with the capn. hope to see ya there

 

[stealthgrow]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

They have really grown the last few days, looking good AG.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Re: AfricanGrower's 1st Hydro Journal-Ebb&Flow/Bubblelicious 2013

I came across a thread saying they use different vinegars as a down and baking soda as an up. So I added a cap full of red wine vinegar to about 3 gallon (maybe a little more) res and it plummeted to like a 4.3. I added ph up to bout 8 oz water and filled the res, cycled the system, got it to 5.3, then repeated and nailed it to 5.8 so the kids were only on the acid for maybe 10 minutes.

I went to visit my new grow space way out in the country today and start investing in the construction. The footprint is 7'6" x 8'10" and the height decreases from 8'4" -> 6'5". At the moment I am planning for a 2 site RDWC, but have a lot of wrinkles to iron out before I completely commit to that design. Either case though I will have a good space for my 2nd journal. When I came home, all the plants were a nice even shade of green with minimal nute burns. I'll water the mom and swap the res on the kids tomorrow for their final day of flowering light, then a day of complete darkness before the 12/12.

I ended up replying to this post in your journal Sky!

>>>Hey AG did i read your using Advanced Nutrients? If so there techs swear there PH Perfect blend can handle all the swings with no adjustments necessary? I'd like to invite you our journal, the links in my signature. Nice to meet you. I am about to start flowering for the first time in the grow cubes this Sunday with the capn. hope to see ya there

Thanks for the invite Sling! As I have always just 'spectated' most journals I'm subscribed to, I will definitely be stopping by to send over them GOOD VIBES for your girls! As for nutrients, I am using Fox Farm, I only bought a quantity to last me through this grow at least maybe even less? I didn't know that AN came 'pre pH' adjusted nutrients? Is that for application with RO water or any pH of water?

>>>They have really grown the last few days, looking good AG.

Yup they have, you should see the bagseeds now. THEY have stretched so much, I fell like they have a quicker growth rate than the Bubb's, I guess only because of the pH problems the Bubblelicious seedlings had.