Autoflower not budding

[Wallanaise the Haze]

Hi guys,

I need some advice please and hope someone on here can give me some.

I am currently running 3 autos, 1x Amnesia from seedsman and 2x white widow autos from RQS. There is a link to my grow journal in my signature.

Basically they started life as outdoor grows but the weather took a turn and i am now indoors under an LED in a 3x2x6” tent.

Everything seemed to be going well (despite a thrip infestation that i am currently clearing out). Now, all 3 plants showed their sex and began preflowering, outdoors, all within the usual timeframes you’d expect for an auto. The move indoors also seemed to go well, they took well to the light and change of conditions and the white widows particularly really began to veg hard. The amnesia did grow a couple of inches but seemed to enter full flower mode and is now putting weight on the buds. Its definitely the runt of the litter but being my first grow im not too concerned, just happy to have at least one success, albeit a miniature one.

On to my issue, the two white widows appear be stuck in preflowering. One in particular is putting on a crazy amount of flowering sites (specifically the top - i think it is foxtailing - again not fussed by this at the moment). They are at 61 & 62 days and according to breeder harvest times (to be taken with a pinch of salt i know) they should at least be showing some buds on those sites by now. Does anyone have any experience of autos doing this? In my journal, near the end, you will see the latest shots, including shots of one of them where it looks as though it has somehow reverted back to veg (new growth is 3 fingered and rounded, not serrated). They are both still growing well and putting on more foliage..... and sites.... but no buds!!

I have read elsewhere that some genes are unstable and they may have switched to photo period because of stress or other factors. Other posters with similar issues have been advised to switch the schedule back to 12/12 to see if that kickstarts the flowering (i am currently on 18/6). However i am a bit reluctant to do this with my amnesia in full flower mode.

Any advice anyone can give would be appreciated!

 

[TorturedSoul]

"putting on a crazy amount of flowering sites" is generally what people would consider flowering, lol.

Other than that... If the move indoors meant that they're no receiving more hours of light - and, therefore, less uninterrupted hours of darkness - then some of your plants might be trying to revert to the vegetative phase. Remember, just because the AF gene has been bred in doesn't make them cabbage plants, lol; they're still cannabis. And at least one member has posted a thread in which he successfully reverted/"revegged" an autoflowering plant on purpose. Which... wasn't exactly a productive use of time or resources, IMHO, but it sure was interesting.

If the above is what happened to your plants, try increasing the number of hours of uninterrupted darkness to 11 or 12 for about four weeks, then if you're feeling froggy, I guess you could start gradually reducing them again if you want.

 

[Wallanaise the Haze]

"putting on a crazy amount of flowering sites" is generally what people would consider flowering, lol.

Theyve been flowering for over a month and no buds have appeared. Yet the amnesia has buds and they’re putting on weight. Im a noob dont forget.

I switched them back to 12/12 today so lets see what happens.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Yeah, I sometimes worry about discussing stuff with new(er) growers, because I might make assumptions that end up not being the case, and they might not know enough (IOW, have enough experience) to correct me.

I don't know your exact situation, so it might not be feasible for you to do so. But IF you can, you could always try covering the plants in question for a few hours at the end or beginning of the "lights-on" period - or moving them to a darkened cabinet/closet for a few hours - until you are sure that they are flowering in earnest (so to speak), then gradually reduce that "extra" period of darkness until they're on the same light schedule as the rest of your garden. The only thing with that is it can be a hassle, because you've got to be there twice/day (to cover them, and then to remove the cover in time for them to get a decent "day") every day.

Growers have started plants indoors under 18 (or more) hours' worth of light per day early in the Spring, then placed them outdoors to grow... and ended up seeing them begin flowering in the Spring because of the sudden drop in hours of light per day (which actually means "sudden increase in uninterrupted hours of darkness per day). I suspect that the reverse is what happened to your problem plants, that the sudden change just threw their "biological clocks" off kilter. If so, other than being a PITA, it's probably not going to cause any real issues - and you might even end up with larger plants because of it . But I'd watch pretty closely for the appearance of opposite-sex (IOW, male) flowers, if I were you. It would suck if the stress caused one of them to produce them (survival mechanism - allows the plant to self-pollinate in difficult times in order to guarantee it will have a next generation), and they caused you to produce a nice crop of... seedy bud.

Good luck with everything, BtW.

 

[Wallanaise the Haze]

Thanks for your replies. Listen, i may be a noob but im not averse to be being put right / corrected etc., i am on here to learn. I think for now im going to stick with the 12/12 switch and leave it a couple of weeks and see how we get on. The amnesia probably has 2-3 weeks left until harvest, as tiny as she is. Just want these white widows to put on some chub and your suggestion of the covering isnt feasible unfortunately. The amnesia will have to bud under less light. This is my first run out so any yield at all and i'll be happy..... and better prepared for attempt number 2.

By the way, this is what i meant by the a crazy amount of sites. When compared to the other white widow, this seems crazy to me (and only a day apart in germ).... this is also why i think foxtailing has occurred as there are so many stacked on top of each other on the main top... Am i just being a noob? Is this is case of a noob overthinking the situation?



and then a close up shot of my miniature Amnesia just because it looks frosty



Prey for the buds!

 

[HigherTheHigh]

Looks like your suffering from a little Nitrogen Toxicity, cut back on the N bud, what bites and ratio are you using?

 

[Wallanaise the Haze]

Im using biobizz nutes and just currently following their schedule. On week 8 at the moment and the ratio for that week is 4ml/L for all 3 nutes.

I wonder if the N toxicity is old? Because i flushed that plant for the past week in case of toxicity already. She was actually fed this morning at those ratios!

 

[HigherTheHigh]

I have ran BioBizz and I wouldn't go above 2.5ml per L bud as anymore seems to cause that claw and really dark green effect.

 

[Wallanaise the Haze]

I have ran BioBizz and I wouldn't go above 2.5ml per L bud as anymore seems to cause that claw and really dark green effect.

OK. Why would biobizz post a schedule thats gonna kill your plant? I fed both of the white widows this morning at the 4ml/L ratio... although i was in a rush so i only mixed up 4 litres and fed them 2 litres each.

Any advice on that? WOuld it be worth throwing another couple of litres of PH'd water in each pot tonight?

 

[SmokingWings]

OK. Why would biobizz post a schedule thats gonna kill your plant?

Their recommended schedule and amounts are the results of their efforts. Unless we grow using the same soils, the same size pots, the same water and the same amounts of light some variation will not be unusual. We will have to make our own adjustments with the manufacturer's recommended schedule and amounts to match our plants, soil, pot size, water and light levels.

It actually is a good thing if our adjustments work for our plants. It means that the product is flexible and can be used under many different circumstances.

Enjoy the day.

 

[Wallanaise the Haze]

Their recommended schedule and amounts are the results of their efforts. Unless we grow using the same soils, the same size pots, the same water and the same amounts of light some variation will not be unusual. We will have to make our own adjustments with the manufacturer's recommended schedule and amounts to match our plants, soil, pot size, water and light levels.

It actually is a good thing if our adjustments work for our plants. It means that the product is flexible and can be used under many different circumstances.

Enjoy the day.

Awesome, thanks. Will hope that this mornings feed doesnt top up the N too much and on the next one i'll dial it down, particularly the veg fertiliser which it seems has the highest N ratio.

 

[SmokingWings]

Awesome, thanks. Will hope that this mornings feed doesnt top up the N too much and on the next one i'll dial it down, particularly the veg fertiliser which it seems has the highest N ratio.

The plants will need a little bit of nitrogen even in flower but no where near the amounts that they need during the veg cycle. I have not looked into the NPK ratios and the ingredient lists for the nutrient line you are using. Is it possible that by continuing to use the veg fertilizers and the flowering fertilizers your plants are getting to much nitrogen?

Hot day out there, enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[HigherTheHigh]

It's just a guideline they post on there products but as with everything all plants aren't the same but I have ran the BioBizz range for 5 runs now and for sure going over that 2.5ml starts a few problems or causes the plant to have to much, if your plant was absolutely huge to the point of 5" wide colas then it possibly could eat more.

I have just looked at your grow journal and you used the same soil canna terra professional so I would feed twice with bites then feed ph'd water, works great this way.

I run these amounts in soil with BioBizz and Canna Terra Professional Plus:

Veg
1-2ml Bio-Grow
1-2.5ml Root Juice (use up to week 4 of flower)

1-2.5ml BioBloom
1ml Fish Mix every other feeding

 

[Wallanaise the Haze]

It's just a guideline they post on there products but as with everything all plants aren't the same but I have ran the BioBizz range for 5 runs now and for sure going over that 2.5ml starts a few problems or causes the plant to have to much, if your plant was absolutely huge to the point of 5" wide colas then it possibly could eat more.

I have just looked at your grow journal and you used the same soil canna terra professional so I would feed twice with bites then feed ph'd water, works great this way.

I run these amounts in soil with BioBizz and Canna Terra Professional Plus:

Veg
1-2ml Bio-Grow
1-2.5ml Root Juice (use up to week 4 of flower)

1-2.5ml BioBloom
1ml Fish Mix every other feeding

Thanks man, bit worried about this mornings feed now. Do you think its worth leaving it or giving it a flush later on of PH'd water? Also, do we think the N toxicity is the problem with lack of buds on the flowers? Ive lowered the light schedule but would prefer it on 18/6 if the fix is going to be the N toxicity.

 

[HigherTheHigh]

I would just water with plain ph'd water next feeding then start a much lower dosage for the next lot of feedings.

Yeah I would say this I post why the buds are quite scarce on top, every plant I have had with n toxicity in flower does the same and makes the buds sort of stringy or beedy, if just had a plant do the same in actually smoking it right now, I will take a picture of how the buds turn out, the other buds lower down on the plant look fine and normal so a little less feed could make them even better.

 

[Wallanaise the Haze]

OK - will change the lights back and give this a go! Thanks again

 

[TorturedSoul]

The plants will need a little bit of nitrogen even in flower but no where near the amounts that they need during the veg cycle.

They can use a relatively substantial amount of it during the stretch phase (first 40% of the flowering period).

 

[SmokingWings]

They can use a relatively substantial amount of it during the stretch phase (first 40% of the flowering period).

But not as much as before that stage. Also, I think that they would still need some nitrogen throughout the flower stage to support the growth of the smaller "sugar leaves".

Though, what I am calling a little bit and what you are calling a substantial amount might actually be the same.

My main concern is that some growers don't realize that the nitrogen is still needed and they drop the levels in their nutrients to zero.

 

[Wallanaise the Haze]

But not as much as before that stage. Also, I think that they would still need some nitrogen throughout the flower stage to support the growth of the smaller "sugar leaves".

Though, what I am calling a little bit and what you are calling a substantial amount might actually be the same.

My main concern is that some growers don't realize that the nitrogen is still needed and they drop the levels in their nutrients to zero.

I think all of my nutes, to some level, contain at least a tiny amount of N. The ratios just drop as you move in to bloom and flowering nutes.