Bomb Shelter HO-T5 and LED Perpetual Harvest Shelf Grow

[farnorth]

Yes. I always try to keep my jounal organized with lots of info. But lots of pictures too as that's what most peoplewant to see.

I've been watching your journal. And like I stated in there. IMO the euphoria under the t5 look like they have more trichomes, and with overall better health than the bcnl box under hids. From everything I read. I kept coming back to the conclusion that you will lose weight, but gain potency by using t5 lights si
ply because of their overall better light color range. And by adding as much lighting to the sides as the top and with the LEDs and co2 I hope to combat that problem and regain at least a little ground in the weight department lost by using t5. Also I will be curious to see because of how compact and Bushy the lights kept the plants. I am curious If plant structure will directly relate to bud structure. Depending on how the main colas shape up. I think 85% of the total weight will be made of canopy side nugs.
Like sai before the lights have kept a very compact shape an each plant consists of one main cola, about 6-8 inches taller than the canopy and then a plethera of side canopy colas.

I am also extremely interested in the t5 led lights. Shoot me a pm if possible with more info..

I can't wait to get off work and check up on your journal.

And as a side note to everyone following my grow. My goal of weight is not because I care more about the weight I recieve from these plants. But simply a goal of IMO a very effecient grow room.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Hey, FN, sorry for the late arrival and great job on the setup, the grow and the journal.


I'm definately in for the rest of the ride!

 

[George Parker]

I am also extremely interested in the t5 led lights. Shoot me a pm if possible with more info..

I can't wait to get off work and check up on your journal.

I'll be on a teleconference with him on Tuesday...I'll be sure to let you know.
...and my door is always open for you my friend

 

[farnorth]

Mr Krip!! Welcome to the party!
Well tonight. I found some unfortunate things. On one plant. I found a few sets of balls... UH OH!!! Now this plant, had quite a few on the lower levels of the plant, and after an hour of picking through, checking out EVERY single budsite. I didnt find any in the tops of the colas. The plant directly next to it, had 4, maybe 5 sacs as well. But that is it. None of the other plants seem to be infected.. These sacs were not open either, and there was no visible pollen.
So what will I do? Well as im not sure what caused this, and the fact that it was on one plant mainly, and one branch of another in the same area, I think that there might be a slight light leak onto that area.
On the plant that was mostly infected. I shaved EVERYTHING but the very top budsites. Every sac, and i will keep an extremely, extremely close eye on it. One more sac and the plant is gone. For the other plant, I removed the balls and will again, kee a very very close eye on them.
Being only day 19, and the fact the pollen sacs were not open, I think I will be ok for these two plants. But if any more sacs are to appear. I will have no choice but to cut them both down...
Oh well.. a very unfortunate turn of events..
Im not sure what the cause is, if it is genetic, or stress related. And being bagseed, and not remembering what the weed was that i got them from. It is impossible to know forsure. But i will definitely be keeping a close close eye on my garden the next couple of days.
too bad...
Any suggestions? Ive looked at the dutchmaster reverse. And might pick some up to spray the rest of them down just as a precaution.
Does anyone know, if the sacs are not open, and no pollen is produced yet, is there a chance of the hermies spreading?
any more information would be great. and will be met with reps.

 

[WeednFeed]

I get your goal and agree that T5's make for very nice buds. With CO2 and fluoros you should be getting some impressive hedges there. I'll be sampling the same pheno from hydro/DWC/HPS that I'm doing in T5 and let you know of the comparative experience with potency. Your observation of the difference in trich production between the two environments is right on. There's a variable in the soup though. I've been trying to please two strains that have different nute needs in the same res. A mistake I won't repeat.

Sorry about the male parts. You're a braver soul than I am. They'd be compost at my place. I admit it... I'm cannaphobic. There, I said it.
Have you considered starting a thread in a help area? In terms of hermies spreading, I don't believe that's a possibility. That's a systemic condition, not acquired via proximity... but by genetics and environmental influences.

Rock on!

 

[Anomoly23]

Grow is looking great Farnorth Whats the name of those little spotlight led you got? Those are cool I could use a couple of those. How do you like them?

 

[farnorth]

Weednfeed
Yeah i love the way your t5 plants are looking and will be catching up with your journal as soon as im finished working in my garden tonight.. And true about the different strains. It would be cool to maybe try using the tungsten mode on your camera and flicing some of the plants in the BCNL? the orange hue takes away from the crystals slightly in photos from what ive seen.

An about the male parts. Oh well. 2 grows before this that besides a little nute burn have gone too smoothly. Was bound to find a trouble patch somewhere along my grow.
I've been curious about what causes hermies, how to prevent them, and what to do with them for a long time. But seem to never find consistent information. So now that I have some in my own hands.. I hope to just simply find out for myself. From some stuff that I had read. If you are diligent in cutting off the balls, and can get to them before they open with pollen you should be alright. As im not quoting it, im going to try. But instead of jsut cutting off the balls. I cut off the entire node. The fan leave, the budsite. everything. Where as, if i was going to throw this plant out anyway. I may as well try to work with it alittle bit before that happens right?
My hope is by cutting off the entire node, for one, as its only with this single plant. I will be able to stop the rest of the plant becoming polinated. And by only having the top 2 nodes. It will be much easier to monitor for new sacs.
With the amount of time i spend down there, I should be able to spot them quick enough. And if any more appear, and it becomes more trouble than its worth. I will wind up just chucking it.
Ill be sure to take some pictures of that plant in tonights update. Im pissed though cuz it was looking like such a monster!

Anomoly
The little led spotlights are GrowSpot. They are only 12w leds and screw into a normal outlet. They are pretty pricey, but everything where i am is pricey. But the cost is relative to the convenience. They are extremely mobile with the clamp outlets as you are able to move them around your garden and angle at any part of the plant that you want. And as they are being used as supplemental lighting, they dont need to be too extremely powered..


Update comming later! Lights just came on!

 

[farnorth]

Hey everyone. Like promised here is an update. Somewhat small as its 5am and im exhausted. Been at work since 11pm this evening in the garden!!

As an update from my hermie girly man. It seems that no more sacs have appeared. I searched the rest of the plants pretty relentlessly as well an found no signs of anything disturbing. So these are good signs. More updates to come as it develops. I still might pick up some dutchmaster reverse to at least give the rest of the plants a spray down jsut in case though..

I watered group 2a last night with their first dose of purple max, and i will be excited to see how it works for these plants. Again, for the first 3 weeks of flower. Also watered group 1a tonight with plain ph water.
I will be watering the flower plants up to week 3 of flower as follows
full fert feed.
purple maxx
plain water
repeat.
at week 3, i will change it
full nutes.
half nutes purple maxx
water
repeat
Anyway.

Also tonight, I had a major revelation with my veg room design, in part to an extremely dumb design flaw on my half with where i placed the cloner and the clones etc. Where the cloner was, I could not remove it to clean it. And from reading more and more, I was getting frantic as I need to clean it very soon.
Anyway I switched it all around, to combat that, and it worked out PERFECTLY. not only have i solved the ez cloner problem being able to remove for cleaning, but ive found room to house all 8 mother plants in 3 gallon bags, and i caned 144sq inches for my vegging clones! Poppa is very happy.

Day 10 group 4a. Day 5 group 4b in the cloner
group 4a is still not doing too well. There are roots on 10 of the 12 in there but their health is simply lacking. Group 4b on the other hand are killing it. 4 of which are already showing roots after 4 days. No wilting. No dying of leafs. etc. overall healthy clones.
Im going to give group 4a 3 more days in the cloner and then move 4b to cups of water to soak while i clean the ez cloner. When i replace the clean cloner, I will take an era big load of clones on to try an experiment. I will ake 20-25 clones and nearly fill the cloner up. Once rooted I will place in half gallon bags and veg for 7-10 days. depending on the size of the roots and the clones themselves. This will be to see my yield from an extremely short veg time.
Also Going to up the dosage of my thrive alive next go around to 20ml/gal

Day 10 veg group 3a
These have really bounced back. And 10 days in veg and still have not neeed water from the transplant. I will water them tomorrow with a extremely light dose of veg nutes. around 200ppm (tap water is 95). In 4 days from now the 9 of them will go into flower as well. to be 2 weeks behind group 2a

Day 10 flower group 2a
These plants are doing great. Like i said, we lost one of them as one of the female seeds from G-13 labs was male. That wasnt cool, so there are only 9, plus 2 tiny clones i thought were going to die, and somehow made a comeback, so they are chilling with this group to jsut see what happens. essentially 12/12 from clone.
Not too much pistil production yet, just stretch and growth, but thats fine with me!

Day 20 group 1a
These plants are doing really, really well. Besides growing into the light 2 times in the last week. But i think their stretch has pretty much resided.
I have noticed, that the two plants that have been primarily under the led spot lights, have much rounder, larger, and hairier buds eveloping than the rest of the group. So I really cant wait to get some led panels to add to the rest of the flower room.
I did my fan leaf trim 1 day early from the 21 day mark. And have noticed quite the difference jsut since last night. I left the fan leave on the main cola, above the canopy, and took the fan leaves connected to the main stem on and below the canopy. I will begin snipping some side branch fan leaves at week 5 or 6.
Also. trichome development has finally began. And the colas are beginning to take shape. I reaaaaallllly need to get on co2. I cant wait any longer, but the setup is expnsive.

anyway here are a couple pictures.
So happ no more pollen sacs are showing up. If trimming the sacs really prevents and stops this problem. I feel bad for everyone who has ever tossed a big herm plant.

 

[Giantsfan24]

Are you seeing any difference in growth between the smart pots and other pots?

 

[farnorth]

GF.. To be completely honest. Im not sold on the smart pots. Of the 3 that i have going, of group 2a in flower. They are the smallest of the 9. Meaning. the smallest, weakest looking plants of the 9 are all in smart pots..
Ive been treating them the exact same way as the rest of the plants, and the fact that in each pot is a different strain, it would be some crazy odds to think that i just happened to pick the three worst seedlings. 1 from each strain i bought.
At 3.75 a piece for a 1 gallon, I think i will jsut stick to my grow bags at .20 cents a piece, and just chuck them when finished..


So today is the day everyone. I bought co2. I did not buy a pm controller or an environmental controller however. but upon several hours of research, I am going to simply start by using the timer and math method.
This way also will give me a perspective on how this works for future grows and to help people in need who cannot afford to buy the expensive controllers...

Here is the rundown of the math.
Room volume= 318.5 7Wx7Lx6.5H
Ideally wanting to raise my ppm to 1500 within the grow room. Without a meter it is impossible to tell exactly what the ppm is currently, however, because im bringing in air directly from outside, and from the reading I have done, co2 ppm in grow rooms average around 200-300. I will call it 300 for the sake of my grow.
If the current ppm is 300, I need to raise it by 1200 to bring it to optimal 1500ppm.
I will take the volume of my room and multiply that by 1200 (.0012)
318.5 x .0012= .38
I will need to release .38 cubic feet of co2 to bring my room to 1500. (given its at a base of 300ppm already.
I have been playing with the fans the last couple days trying to determine how long I can go with my exhaust fan off before temps reach too high. And it takes over an hour to reach temps above 90. However to keep the timer math simple, and to keep a slight under par temp variable, Im going to run on 1 hour fan off, 30 minute fan on minute cycles.
This means that I want to have my fans OFF for 1 hour while releasing co2, and want the plants to have as much time with a fully enriched climate as possible before clearing the air..
I am going to try and release my .38 cubic feet of c02 1/4 of the way through the fan off period. Meaning I have 15 minutes to release the desired amount. In order to control the amount released however, i will need to know the CFH rating to set my valve at. In order to achieve this, I will need divide 15min/60min.
60/15= 4
Then I multiply 4 by my .38
4x.38= 1.52 CFH
1.52 Cubic Feet an hour of co2 is what I need to set my valve at.
This will give the plants 30 minutes in full enriched c02 invironment before needing to clear the room and bring temperature down. I will keep the fan running for 30 minutes as well to keep a 90 minute cycle. 12 hours of daylight with 90 minute cycles make for 8 total cycles of c02 and 8 total hours per daylight cycle with c02 in the environment.
If temps get too high. 90F++ then i will have to reconfigure the timers and drop it to 45 min on. 45 minutes off.
Ideally I would have an a/c unit to keep my room cool and only have 4 short exhaust periods per daylight schedule. but its not a perfect world. and im not a millionare. so for now. This will have to do!! I will be hooking up tonight, as well as transplanting a couple of the clones in group 4a that are pretty unhealthy. We will try to nurse them back to health over the next week or so. Hopefully will work out nice. And like i said, Im going to have to wait to take new clones until i clean my cloner, So once clone time does it. I will be taking 20 total or so.

 

[farnorth]

Hey everyone. Well were off! CO2 has been running for the last 3 hours and temps at the end of the 45 minute period with fan off hit right at 90F. Then the fans come on, and drop it down to 85F. Perfect!!
I cannot wait to see how these plants react to their new environment..
I also watered the vegging plans with their first dose of light nutrients.. Which brings me to my next topic.
I think I am going ot have to rethink the floor of my shelves. They are working decently, but any pulling or accidental bump causes a hole to tear...
Im thinking laminant of some kind, and then will caulk the coners. Hmmmmm off to do more reading. If anyone would care to see pics id love an excuse to go down an take some more. But my update doesnt come until tomorrow..

 

[farnorth]

I cant wait to check on the ladies tonight!
From way north to everyone down south. Hoping everyone has a safe and fun holiday tomorrow.

 

[hempstar024]

Damn Must say there is something nice about seeing rows of fresh green like that! lol Keep it up, cant wait to see how it finishes up!

 

[Mr. Krip]

Hey everyone. Well were off! CO2 has been running for the last 3 hours and temps at the end of the 45 minute period with fan off hit right at 90F. Then the fans come on, and drop it down to 85F. Perfect!!
I cannot wait to see how these plants react to their new environment..
I also watered the vegging plans with their first dose of light nutrients.. Which brings me to my next topic.
I think I am going ot have to rethink the floor of my shelves. They are working decently, but any pulling or accidental bump causes a hole to tear...
Im thinking laminant of some kind, and then will caulk the coners. Hmmmmm off to do more reading. If anyone would care to see pics id love an excuse to go down an take some more. But my update doesnt come until tomorrow..

Hey FN, congrat's on launching the CO2!

I'm looking forward to seeing the results!

Show me da' pics!!!

 

[farnorth]

Hempstar! Thanks for coming along for the ride! Should definitely hang on! Things are moving quick in here!

Mr. Krip! Thanks! Im happy with the temp results. Hitting 90 by the end of the fan off period and then dropping back down to desired range is definitely perfect. COuldnt have asked for better.
I would like to get the environmental control at some point soon however. I think it will save c02, and will be good to keep the levels at 1500 at all times instead of pumping the room up, then dropping. then pumping it up. then dropping..
Either way, I hope to see some different results! So pumped to open the doors tonight. I will be updating a big update tonight! SO stay tuned!

 

[BlazinUSA]

holy mother of buddha farnorth u sure do have something going here my friend. i dont know where ive been but im here now and cant wait 2 see more. Its late now but i quick read thru and i sure am impressed. Im workin for what u got goin right now

 

[Thew1sest]

Awesome bomb shelter setup!!! I just caught up with the thread. I dig your idea seems like its working quite well, damn herms though... but what can ya do? Nice work

 

[farnorth]

Well thanks Blazin!! Its update night tonight, so i will be updating here in a couple of hours. Lights come on in 10 minutes so after i work, will come tons more pictures.
Stick around!!

 

[farnorth]

Awesome bomb shelter setup!!! I just caught up with the thread. I dig your idea seems like its working quite well, damn herms though... but what can ya do? Nice work

Thanks sir!!! It is definitely working very well. Well the herm was only on 2 plants. And all the plants deep in flower are bagseed. SO i will never know if it was genetic or not you know? But its in the past. seems like i have beat it before the sacs pollinated. So well see what happens... Im not sweating my other plants turnin herm at all, but if they do, and if my solution worked, then it shouldnt be a big deal. Anyway. time to go to work!!!!

 

[farnorth]

Well Update time!!
Whoop whoop. pretty excited.
Was a busy night down there tnight..
Today is
day 21 flower group 1A.
day 12 flower group 2A
Day 12 veg group 3a
day 1 veg group 4a
day 7 cloner group 4b
day 1 cloner 5a

CLONES
Today was a busy day for the clones.
I transplanted the 8 clones from group 4a. 4 from mother 18 and 4 from mother 4 into 1 gallon grow bags. They look healthier than the last batch, but still are not perfect.. Since they all had a very healthy rootmass however, I fed them with the transplant with 1ml/gal of buddah grow, ancient amber, trinity, and extreme serene. I will try feeding an extremely low dose of nutes with the transplant this time, and if they do not respond well, then I will pass on doing it with the next batch.
Group 4b is 1 week in today. Roots are showing on all but 1 of the 8. And extremely healthy roots are showing on the other 7.
After transplanting group 4a, i cleaned the cloner. Emptied the resi, filled with hot water and bleach and ran the pump for 2 minutes. Emptied it, and washed it out refilling with hot water. I ran it with hot water for 5 minutes and emptied it. Wiped down all components with clorox wipes, then refilled and ran the pump for another 2 minutes. I dried and replaced in the bomb shelter.
I refilled it with roomtemperate water. 7.5 gallons with 25ml of thrive alive.
Once clean and refilled. I took 16 clones. 2 from each mother plant. for a total of 24 clones in the cloner.
2 powerkush
2 cali hash
2 blackberry
2 whiteberry
2 purple haze
4 mother #4
5 mother #18
5 mother #8
Group 4b will move to soil in 5 days.

VEG
Well with the addition of 8 more plants to the veg room its looking very nice under the t5.
Group 3a is doing great, and will be moved to flower in 2 days making it 14 days behind group 2a and 4 weeks behind group 1a.
I watered the 12 day old veg plants last night with
25ml buddah grow
25ml ancient amber
25ml trinity
25ml extreme serene
I cant wait to get some of the name brand clones in the veg room!
The mothers are doing well also. Really bushing up and giving me very nice large clones to choose from.

Flower
Well now with the addition of my new co2 setup i should be seeing a dramatic increase in growth.
Group 2a is chuggin right along at day 10. Most are showing the irst signs of sex. But there is one purple haze that looks like its a male. SO that will be no bueno, and "he" will definitely be getting the chop. Even though I think i have beaten the hermie plant in group 1. I dont want to continue to fuss over them and will chuck any that are spotted. But this one appears to be simply straight male, with no pistils showing whatsoever.
Regardless, the rest in group 2 are going great. With the tallest a little over a foot.
Group 1 is really loving life at day 21. They are just developing nicely and starting to push out the resin which is my favorite part! The smell is beginning to kick in as well. As these are bagseed, it is going to be a huge pain in the ass come close to harvest time as I have no idea when any of them are ging to finish and need to be started on their flush. But i spose i will deal with it when i get there...
Like i said, no more new sacs that i have spotted. Im going to really continue to dig for them later tonight though. I want to be 100% sure they are gone before fully relaxing...


Issues
My biggest issue with this grow right now is the floor. I would love to simply use hydro tables, but there are no trays that evenly fit on my shelf without wasting lots of space by using the 2x2.
SO ive been looking more and more into the laminant flooring. Ive found some for 1.77 /sqft which is i think what i want to do. It will be somewhat pricey at around $200 for my whole room, but the peace of mind knowing that i will have no leaks.
The poly that is lining my floor tears far to eeasy and have found myself starting at a white poly floor that looks like its infected with gorilla tape chicken pox. and there is still water leaking through inebtween layers, which im not happy about.

Anyway here are some pictures from tonight and last night!

a purple haze mother

the veg area. clones from mother #18 grow at twice the speed of the rest of the clones.and root twice as fast. A really really good genetics that im stoked to have stumbled across in seed form. Well see how the bud turns out!

main cola from my favorite plant

An experiment from clone straight to 12/12 with a clone that i was planning on chucking that made it! Would be cool to get enough to roll a nice joint from this little lady.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! BE SAFE EVERYONE