ClosetCase420's - RDWC - 600W MH/HPS - Wonder Woman - Grow Journal - 2015

[closetcase420]

First and foremost thank you for the reply..

My problem is I have read so many different posts and how to's online regarding nutrition and expected PPMs that I don't know what is right and wrong anymore.

First off my base is really high at around 325. Nothing I can do about this atm.

My intent was to use bring the PPM up to about 575 with just CalMag for the first two weeks. I just finally got the CalMag and added the recommended dosage (2ml/gal) so 30ml for my 15gal tank. This only bumped the PPM up in the tank up to the 430s. Should I add more, or maybe add in the dosage now for the trio? I just need someone to say here follow this schedule it will work for GH trio in DWC.

 

[Emilya Green]

Plants need 17 different elements in order to grow. You are supplying water, (hydrogen and oxygen), carbon dioxide (carbon and more oxygen), and very little of anything else. Then you want to also throw in calmag... so there is calcium and magnesium and a bit of iron.

What I have to note after examining this is that not counting any trace minerals that might be in your water, you are only supplying 6 of the 17 needed elements to grow a plant. It is no wonder that some of the roots are dying.

As far as the ppms go, it is easy to deal with hard water. Your pH will drift very fast using that water, but lets not get lost with that high ppm number. If your base is 325, then you need to add that to the ppms that are recommended by calmag and recommended for your nutes at this stage and add all of this together. Dont worry that your number goes a bit high, that is your hard water and all the crud in it doing that, but you have to have the proper amount of nutrients in this mix to support life at this stage. I dont have access to your nutes schedule, but looking at my FoxFarm chart for hydro, I see that they recommend 1120-1260 ppm for the first two weeks of a seedling.

A quick calculation then would give us this

325 ppm base
105 ppm calmag
1120 ppm nutrients (yours may recommend a different number)
=======
1550 ppm total ppm of the mix


Get these ppm's up to a life sustaining level and start feeding your plants. This will make a huge difference, and by golly, your plants might actually start growing, finally able to get the nutrients that they need.

 

[chenzi]

Nice suggestion Emilya, without proper nutrition the ph will fluctuate wildly.
Even tho in D.W.C we don't need high concentrations of nutrient, we still need to feed adequately to sustain growth.

 

[chenzi]

Hey there CC420, a quick question ?
I noticed in your photo's your nutrients below your scrog screen, Are you storing them there ?
Nutrients should be stored in a cool place to prolong their quality and longevity.
Just my 2 cents

 

[closetcase420]

Ok so if I am understanding correctly don't worry so much about PPM and trying to find a certain number. I should just follow the instructions on the bottle and decrease it somewhat since I'm hydro.

For the GH Trio it says for mild veg to use 5ml of each of (Gro, Micro, and Bloom) per gallon.

That would be 75ml of each nutrient (15 gallon tank), seems like a lot.

I added 25ml of each (1/3). The PPM went from about 450 to about 650.

Should I add more?

 

[closetcase420]

Hey there CC420, a quick question ?
I noticed in your photo's your nutrients below your scrog screen, Are you storing them there ?
Nutrients should be stored in a cool place to prolong their quality and longevity.
Just my 2 cents

Thanks Chenzi.. I was keeping them in the cabinet, I'll take them out.

 

[Papageno]

Hey man I saw you posted elsewhere trying to get some help here. So I am uncertain where you are at. I did read through some of this journal and the first question I have is you stated up front that you are doing the lights backwards...you stated you are using an HPS for veg and a MH for bloom. I highly doubt that is why you are getting airy buds as you can successfully use either for both but the yellower light that is autumn light so you can remember. If you corner the yahoos in any grow store and get them to speak honestly they will admit that using HPS for the whole time is what most people are doing for multiple reasons. I have 3 grow stores within 10 min of my house. I talk to all of them. The guy I bought my latest lights from has had a medical grow going for many years. I know he runs about 16 1000W HPS...no MH.

If those pics are recent then I think you still are worried about nutes before it matters. Seeds of all plants have enough to get the plants fairly far to find real soil and light. It is much easier to bring back a sprout that is hungry than un-stunt a sprout that is burnt. Emilya's theory about roots aint bad except for at the size in the pics there isn't much in the root system yet and there is still enough seed nutes left. The roots would only die from over watering. I am sure that is why she thinks it is a long shot. They would only die if you are not letting the basket dry out. The roots need oxygen more than water and every pic you show has over watered cubes. That could cause roots to die. Possibly you always take pics after the drip but top drip is really not a great system. After the roots get to the res the top drip should be stopped really.

I have done both and top drip really doesn't add a great deal but is easy to mess up. Especially with cubes that retain water itis very easy to over-water the basket. I would relocate the spouts to go into the clay not the cube as the cubes you really do not want soaking like that. The cubes should only get water as a result of wicking from the clay. You want good air stones to bubble water to the basket for that water transfer. Top drip (I have done I know) is not useful after the plant gets about as big as you are showing. But you must continue to circulate the res somehow. So you need some means to move the heavy nutes from the bottom to the top. Consider relocating them as sprayers under the lid. You will have better roots if you do.

It isn't "how long" really before you need nutes it is the size of the plant. Many variables are involved in Photosynthesis. As long as the plants have not used up the available nutes then they are still there (unless they are stunted and need to recover). They can get to 3 sets leaves without any nutes.

Following most bottles is not recommended at your stage. Most bottles have one concentration recommendation X/gal. I see your bottle has various stages and it says also 1/4 at your stage. When they only say one like AN that recommendation is for peak growth in a great system. You are early stage growth. 1/4 nutes until the growth starts to "take off". PPM "is what it is". You use clean water, use 1/4 nutes, and measure the PPM and that is you basis. That is the actual number you want to track but the value itself is not written in stone. different nute brands will have different PPMs for the same concentration. For Veg I would recommend Elanor's VF-11 and you wont have to worry much about burn.

I get ppm of 14 out of the tap here. In the '80 the municipal water in Portland used to be bottled and sold ours is so good here. I think my water would work differently than yours. So a ppm of 550 means something different to me than you.

Lastly you said you were having issues getting a response. The experienced growers don't generally read these journals...these are here for the newbs. The other thread was fairly vague and you requested people come here to read through a few pages of stuff and all of our questions will be answered here. You gotta remember you are asking a bunch of pot heads to do extra work for you. I would recommend that next time you post outside of this journal... to post a clear question with pics and some details. If the question you want answered is self contained in a post you will get more and faster responses. I know I looked at it late last night, clicked over to your journal...and was like...I am going to bed that is just too much to read right now.


I love the DIY....I did that for almost 15 years.

Best of luck!

 

[closetcase420]

Hey man I saw you posted elsewhere trying to get some help here. So I am uncertain where you are at. I did read through some of this journal and the first question I have is you stated up front that you are doing the lights backwards...you stated you are using an HPS for veg and a MH for bloom. I highly doubt that is why you are getting airy buds as you can successfully use either for both but the yellower light that is autumn light so you can remember. If you corner the yahoos in any grow store and get them to speak honestly they will admit that using HPS for the whole time is what most people are doing for multiple reasons. I have 3 grow stores within 10 min of my house. I talk to all of them. The guy I bought my latest lights from has had a medical grow going for many years. I know he runs about 16 1000W HPS...no MH.

I just wrote that wrong.
I use the whiter lights (MH) during veg and the yellower light (HPS) during flowering.

If those pics are recent then I think you still are worried about nutes before it matters. Seeds of all plants have enough to get the plants fairly far to find real soil and light. It is much easier to bring back a sprout that is hungry than un-stunt a sprout that is burnt. Emilya's theory about roots aint bad except for at the size in the pics there isn't much in the root system yet and there is still enough seed nutes left. The roots would only die from over watering. I am sure that is why she thinks it is a long shot. They would only die if you are not letting the basket dry out. The roots need oxygen more than water and every pic you show has over watered cubes. That could cause roots to die. Possibly you always take pics after the drip but top drip is really not a great system. After the roots get to the res the top drip should be stopped really.

Well that would be a problem. I've had the drip as a constant drip directly butted up against each cube through the process each grow. I've never taken the drip down. I really don't like the drip. If I don't use it what method is better, hand watering until their roots drop?

I have done both and top drip really doesn't add a great deal but is easy to mess up. Especially with cubes that retain water itis very easy to over-water the basket. I would relocate the spouts to go into the clay not the cube as the cubes you really do not want soaking like that.

Risk pulling the roots out of the cubes?

The cubes should only get water as a result of wicking from the clay. You want good air stones to bubble water to the basket for that water transfer.

I'm running a 70L per minute commercial air pump and 4 large 2 inch x 4 inch air stones in the tank. I try and keep the water at about 1/2 inch below the bottom of the net pots and it is bubbling really well right now. The pots are 5" round and pretty deep. The plants sitting on the cubes about 3/4 of the way up. Until the roots reach the water how do you make sure she has enough water? Between the hydroton and the cubes I do not think bubbling and splashing is going to b enough. Do you think I should get a couple more air stones?

Top drip (I have done I know) is not useful after the plant gets about as big as you are showing. But you must continue to circulate the res somehow. So you need some means to move the heavy nutes from the bottom to the top. Consider relocating them as sprayers under the lid. You will have better roots if you do.

I have the 4 air stones currently; but I also have the water circulating through a chiller at 65 degrees so it is constantly in motion. Would you just pull the top drip and pump or leave it in like you said as a recirc drip mounted under the lid.

It isn't "how long" really before you need nutes it is the size of the plant. Many variables are involved in Photosynthesis. As long as the plants have not used up the available nutes then they are still there (unless they are stunted and need to recover). They can get to 3 sets leaves without any nutes.

Following most bottles is not recommended at your stage. Most bottles have one concentration recommendation X/gal. I see your bottle has various stages and it says also 1/4 at your stage. When they only say one like AN that recommendation is for peak growth in a great system. You are early stage growth. 1/4 nutes until the growth starts to "take off". PPM "is what it is". You use clean water, use 1/4 nutes, and measure the PPM and that is you basis. That is the actual number you want to track but the value itself is not written in stone. different nute brands will have different PPMs for the same concentration. For Veg I would recommend Elanor's VF-11 and you wont have to worry much about burn.

Ok so this is important.
I have an 18 gallon tank holding approximately 15 gallons of water.

I see FloraGro recommends 1/4 strength but I think I ended up about 1/3 strength.

Currently in my tank I have

The amounts GH recommends on the bottles is 1/4 teaspoon / 1 gallon for each of of the trio series.

The recommended dosage for me should be ( 1.23223 (1/4 teaspoon) x 15 (gallons) = 18.48345ml )

I actually used 25ml each. I also have 30ml of CalMag.

Do you think I should be ok for now?

And regarding PPMs... I think I'm understanding more that it's really a comparison number for me to work off of. I know the water is 650 today so I can monitor it every day or so to see how the plants are taking the nutes?

I get ppm of 14 out of the tap here. In the '80 the municipal water in Portland used to be bottled and sold ours is so good here. I think my water would work differently than yours. So a ppm of 550 means something different to me than you.

Time for me to move to Portland

Lastly you said you were having issues getting a response. The experienced growers don't generally read these journals...these are here for the newbs. The other thread was fairly vague and you requested people come here to read through a few pages of stuff and all of our questions will be answered here. You gotta remember you are asking a bunch of pot heads to do extra work for you. I would recommend that next time you post outside of this journal... to post a clear question with pics and some details. If the question you want answered is self contained in a post you will get more and faster responses. I know I looked at it late last night, clicked over to your journal...and was like...I am going to bed that is just too much to read right now.

I know and I hate double posting so I REALLY APPRECIATE the response and the help.
I'll try and keep the journal to just a journal and post my questions etc elsewhere.

I love the DIY....I did that for almost 15 years.

Best of luck!

Stick around PLEASE

I'm going to need help along the way.

 

[PTSDgrower]

I'm glad you are already watching hygrohybrid, I learned a lot on his videos. I just made the switch to the flora 3 part and calimagic. I was using floranova series which already has cal mag in it, but that shit is like motor oil and I thought since my gallon jugs were over a year old, I was recommended to get new nutes. The reason for calmag(correct me if I'm wrong) is to replace it in RO water. When I started hydro I had to get a RO system since my water out of the tap is 650ppm with a water softener. I use 2 mil/gal calmag 1-2 mil/gal grow 1 mil micro and 1 mil bloom for veg. The extra mil of grow since my plants are good size now. After that my ppm are around 400 before I add 5 mil/gal of floranectar. I haven't done seeds but maybe 3 times. I would think the start time would be when you roots hit the water ? I used 1/2" pvc on my rdwc with 5 gallon buckets in veg and totes for flower with no leaks. You are early into your grow, I would suggest empty your tote and silicone and let it dry for 24 hours, or get a hot glue gun(high or low temp) high will have a better chance of burning you. Get a cup of cold water, glue around the leaking area, dip your finger in the cold water and mold the glue around the area, it's an instant fix and you don't have to empty your tote(I would leave the water in so you can make sure you sealed the leak.)

 

[PTSDgrower]

and be careful not to drop that cheap $20 ph meter in the water,it will die...I went through 2 of those before I spent $100 on a bluelab meter.

 

[Papageno]

lets see...lots of questions here...

I feel the best type of RDWC is Aero. Be careful... everyone calls things RDWC that are not Recirculating the nutes from the bottom of the res to the top...when I searched on Google just now for Aeroponic RDWC I found a bunch of wrong images for Undercurrent and top drip systems. I think the misinformation will never stop. RDWC means Recirculating DWC which strictly means the res is re-circulated such that the water at the bottom is reinserted at the top of the res. A top drip is one type of RDWC. But an undercurrent system is NOT RDWC. Aeroponics is spraying a mist at the root zone. If the pump is at the bottom of the res where all the heavy nutes sink to then it is an RDWC. Undercurrent systems recirculate the nutes through the bottom of the res. But strictly speaking in terms of the facts and the history and the definitions of what words actually mean in Hydroponics...Re-circulation is reintroducing nutrient rich bottom water to the top of the res. And the only reason I always go off about this is because it matters when diagnosing and talking about issues. An Undercurrent system works very differently with nute uptake and many other things than an RDWC. Talking about one does not have diddly to do with the other...with the exception of Ph.


It took me a while to find it but here is a diagram I found on google images of a real Aero RDWC.

now you could gang some buckets together and have an external res for that and still mist it from bottom res water and you get RDWC aero.

ugh....I feel like a broken record...not your fault. If you really care here is a thread where I dropped a Youtube video that explains it on page 2.
Rdwc nutes questions


Okay the second question "Risk pulling the roots out of the cubes?" I think we are miscommunication. No do not remove the the cubes or try to remove the plants from them. I was saying the Spouts not Sprouts. Move the drip system so it is watering the clay not the cube. The cube will get enough water wicking it out of the clay. Preferably at this point relocate them inside the lid with a sprayer so they moisten the air roots every few hours. That is overkill. You can get by as is just turn it way down. You want it infrequent enough that the cubes almost completely dry out. You want the roots to have to grow out looking for water. If water is too easy to find then there will be reduced root growth. A little stress is good for plants and people. When you lift weights you break down your muscles and they rebuild bigger to make up for the loss and prepare for the future. Same with plants. There is good types of stress that makes plants stronger and drying out the basket will get bigger stronger fatter better roots...as long as they don't get too dry. That cube means you basically don't need to water them.

If the air stones are bubbling the water such that it is misting the bottom of the pots the the clay will wick up the water just fine. If not get better air stones or pump. You can also have the res run up into the basket in the beginning until the roots appear but a decent air stone should mean this is unnecessary. Of special note....DWC, in all of its forms, is a lazy way of running hydro. It only works because of the air stones otherwise the roots die. All other forms of hydro require a bit more work but leave the roots in the air mostly and wet them occasionally. The more air you put into a DWC the better your results will be...don't be too lazy. Undercurrent systems are awesome because of the aeration of the water and really that is about it.

#4... Yes if you think it isn't too much trouble recirculating outside of the basket is way better. The issue is you want the heavy nutes which settle on the bottom to be evenly distributed throughout the res. It really isn't that big a deal once the roots get going and if you have good air stones creating constant turbulence. Many many growers including some friends of mine don't recirculate at all and rely on the turbulence from the airs tones...they use good air stones. Recirculating was developed by the Aero guys before people were into DWC. DWC is the result of realizing that Aero is great but a good airstone (which you must have) and you don't need to recirculate.

#5.. DING DING DING...winner winner chicken dinner. The PPM is relative to your situation and you monitor it based on what your starting point is and based on what you add. Your starting point best be a good staring point. You use good water and mix it up and measure it then introduce it to the res. and measure it. As you top off you measure the res first, measure the top off bucket, add and remeasure the res. With time you will get the idea. I don't think your plants will be using any nutes for at least a week if not longer. All the stuff you put in there is basically wasted. If you used organic nutes that go bad in 10 days you would need to flush it and all that money was wasted. Since you are using chemical nutes you can probably sit on it and just top off Ph'd water for a while.

I will be around...you can PM me if I don't catch your next question.

 

[closetcase420]

The reason for calmag(correct me if I'm wrong) is to replace it in RO water.

I'm pretty sure my last plants had magnesium deficiency. All of the stems grew extremely week and started falling over. I had to support all of them by tying them up to the light supports.

I am sorta crossing my fingers and hoping that was my issue and reason for the airy buds my first grows. I'm planning to add CalMag throughout the grow this time. Unless someone more experienced tells me otherwise.

When I started hydro I had to get a RO system since my water out of the tap is 650ppm with a water softener. I use 2 mil/gal calmag 1-2 mil/gal grow 1 mil micro and 1 mil bloom for veg. The extra mil of grow since my plants are good size now. After that my ppm are around 400 before I add 5 mil/gal of floranectar.

I'm considering the investment into an RO system but hoping I won't need to. My water is about 325 PPM out of the tap.

You are only adding 1ml/gal each of gro micro and bloom? That's only 15ml each for my 15 gallon tank? That's A LOT less than I've been adding previously and a lot less than everything else I read. I was thinking about following the LUCAS method which says

"Add 8ml of Flora Micro (dark red stuff) to 1 gallon of water*, mix, and then add 16ml of Flora Bloom (pink stuff) into the water, and mix. Done."

For me that is 120ml of Micro and 250ml of Bloom throughout Veg and Flower. Compare that it's like a diet versus all you can eat

This is why I get so confused. Now once again I have no idea what I should be feeding them because I get different answers all over the place.

I haven't done seeds but maybe 3 times. I would think the start time would be when you roots hit the water ? I used 1/2" pvc on my rdwc with 5 gallon buckets in veg and totes for flower with no leaks. You are early into your grow, I would suggest empty your tote and silicone and let it dry for 24 hours, or get a hot glue gun(high or low temp) high will have a better chance of burning you. Get a cup of cold water, glue around the leaking area, dip your finger in the cold water and mold the glue around the area, it's an instant fix and you don't have to empty your tote(I would leave the water in so you can make sure you sealed the leak.)

I'm going to just switch out the tub when I replace the water. I bought a GH Farm Kit after I realized it is existed so I'll use that on the next tub. Thanks for your advice though. I might try and use that to patch this tub and use it as my nutrient tank.

and be careful not to drop that cheap $20 ph meter in the water,it will die...I went through 2 of those before I spent $100 on a bluelab meter.

Believe it or not I've used this meter for almost 2 years now. My PPM meter though died on me so I bought a cheaper replacement for now.

 

[closetcase420]

ugh....I feel like a broken record...not your fault. If you really care here is a thread where I dropped a Youtube video that explains it on page 2.
Rdwc nutes questions

When the roots come out of the net pots I would like to just remove the whole drip system. It'd be a waste of the water pump though so you think I should go ahead and connect them to the lid as sprayers? I don't know anything about the sprayers, what are they called so I can research?

Okay the second question "Risk pulling the roots out of the cubes?" I think we are miscommunication. No do not remove the the cubes or try to remove the plants from them. I was saying the Spouts not Sprouts.

Duh, stoner moment

Move the drip system so it is watering the clay not the cube. The cube will get enough water wicking it out of the clay. Preferably at this point relocate them inside the lid with a sprayer so they moisten the air roots every few hours. That is overkill. You can get by as is just turn it way down. You want it infrequent enough that the cubes almost completely dry out. You want the roots to have to grow out looking for water. If water is too easy to find then there will be reduced root growth. A little stress is good for plants and people. When you lift weights you break down your muscles and they rebuild bigger to make up for the loss and prepare for the future. Same with plants. There is good types of stress that makes plants stronger and drying out the basket will get bigger stronger fatter better roots...as long as they don't get too dry. That cube means you basically don't need to water them.

Perfect. I did that last night and so far all appears to be good. The cubes are no longer soaking.

If the air stones are bubbling the water such that it is misting the bottom of the pots the the clay will wick up the water just fine. If not get better air stones or pump. You can also have the res run up into the basket in the beginning until the roots appear but a decent air stone should mean this is unnecessary. Of special note....DWC, in all of its forms, is a lazy way of running hydro. It only works because of the air stones otherwise the roots die. All other forms of hydro require a bit more work but leave the roots in the air mostly and wet them occasionally. The more air you put into a DWC the better your results will be...don't be too lazy. Undercurrent systems are awesome because of the aeration of the water and really that is about it.

That is great news. Right now the water level is actually about 1/8 inch into the bottom of the bucket which still leaves is about 2 inches away from the bottom of the cubes. This was not intentional, just misjudged the water level with the deeper 5" net pots. I'll lower the water level once the roots come down out of the net pots.

#4... Yes if you think it isn't too much trouble recirculating outside of the basket is way better. The issue is you want the heavy nutes which settle on the bottom to be evenly distributed throughout the res. It really isn't that big a deal once the roots get going and if you have good air stones creating constant turbulence. Many many growers including some friends of mine don't recirculate at all and rely on the turbulence from the airs tones...they use good air stones. Recirculating was developed by the Aero guys before people were into DWC. DWC is the result of realizing that Aero is great but a good airstone (which you must have) and you don't need to recirculate.

So this is what I'm already doing but not intentionally. I have a pump at the bottom of the tub pushing water out into and through the chiller and being dumped back into the top of the tub. My purpose was just to keep the water chilled but I guess I stumbled into a recirculating system. Now if I could just figure out how to incorporate a self feeding bucket so the water level stays constant with PH balanced nutrient water.

#5.. DING DING DING...winner winner chicken dinner. The PPM is relative to your situation and you monitor it based on what your starting point is and based on what you add. Your starting point best be a good staring point. You use good water and mix it up and measure it then introduce it to the res. and measure it. As you top off you measure the res first, measure the top off bucket, add and remeasure the res. With time you will get the idea. I don't think your plants will be using any nutes for at least a week if not longer. All the stuff you put in there is basically wasted. If you used organic nutes that go bad in 10 days you would need to flush it and all that money was wasted. Since you are using chemical nutes you can probably sit on it and just top off Ph'd water for a while.

Ok.. I'm going to just monitor it. Thanks Again.

I will be around...you can PM me if I don't catch your next question.

AND THANK YOU AGAIN

 

[Papageno]

You mentioned weak stems. Go to any hydro store and ask for a silica potash treatment. I use Mad Farmers Silica. It is useful in raising Ph as well as it really brings up the Ph. so be careful adding it. Potash and Silica are vital to cell wall formation. You will notice almost immediately much stronger plants that can stand up under heavy flowers. Advanced Nutrient makes a Ph perfect version that is expensive. The cheap stuff is expensive enough and you don't need to add a lot. You don't need to add it every time. Once every few weeks is more than enough. But it should be used in any grow soil or hydro for optimal results. Not using it and you can do everything in the world and still not get the best results you could have. In soil you can add raw potash and silica to the blend in the beginning and you will be good to go but in Hydro you need to add it as you go.



You also sound a bit confused still about ppm. I think you are thinking way too hard about it. It is very simple.

*** Disclaimer I made up these numbers to make the math easy and they are generally meaningless ***

#1 measure you clean water (RO or otherwise). Lets say your "clean" water measures at 300ppm (not clean but not the point)

#2 You look at the size not age of your plants and decide what stage of growth I am in. you are in the 1/4 nute stage. Figure out what 1/4 nute concentration is for the volume you are adding. Lets say to make things ease you have a 20 gallon res. your bottle says 1/4 teaspoon per gallon so that is 5 teaspoons. Do the same for the Silica, cal mag, and whatever else you feel up to putting in there.

#3 measure that batch and lets say the ppm is now 900. That means you upped it by 600 ppm and there is 300ppm of stuff in there you may or may not want.

#4 You keep monitoring it and do the math hoping that 300 ppm of stuff is not being used.
4.1 Lets say the water goes down and the ppm doesn't change. This is generally considered ideal meaning you have the ratio such that the plant is absorbing both water and nutes at the same rate.
4.2 Lets say the ppm drops and the water doesn't move. Then you have some hungry girls. Usually water still goes down so you can easily top off but if this literally happens scoop out some of the res and go back to step 1. But do the math and do not go over the 900 PPM you have established is what you want for that stage of growth. It is likely however in this situation that you have transitioned to vigorous growth and it is okay to go to 1/2 nutes or more.
4.3 PPM goes Up...that generally means they are drinking the water and not taking the nutes. That can happen for a few reasons. Do not panic just add clean water to top off and Ph the res like normal.

But the actual number 650, 678 1242...1892..2015...doesn't mean diddly all by itself. What matters is how much you have added and what the change was from that. If we all had clean water to start with that was literally ppm <10 then we could use exact values. But I guarantee if we mixed up an identical batch with your water and my water the result would be different.

So in this example 1/4 nutes comes out to ~600ppm additional. So during vigorous growth your ppm would be 4 times that 2400ppm + the 300 for the crappy water. So you would be at....2700 PPM.

What can confuse people is because of the discrepancy in base water people try to communicate this as though you have clean water so you want 2400 PPM during vigorous growth. It is up to you to understand what they are saying and do the math for yourself.


But don't get overwhelmed here...it is simple addition and subtraction. It is all based on a relative score based on how much effort you put into clean water.

 

[PTSDgrower]

Quote Originally Posted by PTSDgrower View Post
When I started hydro I had to get a RO system since my water out of the tap is 650ppm with a water softener. I use 2 mil/gal calmag 1-2 mil/gal grow 1 mil micro and 1 mil bloom for veg. The extra mil of grow since my plants are good size now. After that my ppm are around 400 before I add 5 mil/gal of floranectar.
I'm considering the investment into an RO system but hoping I won't need to. My water is about 325 PPM out of the tap.

You are only adding 1ml/gal each of gro micro and bloom? That's only 15ml each for my 15 gallon tank? That's A LOT less than I've been adding previously and a lot less than everything else I read. I was thinking about following the LUCAS method which says

"Add 8ml of Flora Micro (dark red stuff) to 1 gallon of water*, mix, and then add 16ml of Flora Bloom (pink stuff) into the water, and mix. Done."

For me that is 120ml of Micro and 250ml of Bloom throughout Veg and Flower. Compare that it's like a diet versus all you can eat

This is why I get so confused. Now once again I have no idea what I should be feeding them because I get different answers all over the place.

Yes, my veg I put 20 gallons of water in my rdwc(4 plant sites with res), 40 mil calmag, 40 mil of grow, 20 mil of micro, 20 mil of bloom, 50-100mil silica 100 mil of floranectar, 60 mil of H2O2, and 250 mil of fulpower(humic acid) makes the plants better absorb nutes. It says 10-30mil/gal in hydro, but you don't need to go full strength with dwc. I only go full strength with the armorsi(silica) and H2O2, since I'm always battling funky roots. look at my plants, I'm still learning this shit. PSTDgrower's Veg Room

 

[Papageno]

uh oh... PTSD opened that can of worms...

So there is now a recommendation to use H202. Hydrogen Peroxide is used primarily to kill unwanted bacteria. So be very carful not to waste money on beneficial bacteria and also add in H202.

There are lots of posts out there in DWC area about this. Go smoke a bowl and spend a few hours reading through posts on there.

You have to decide if you want to run a living res with good vital organisms in there or are you going to try and kill off all the bacteria and run completely synthetic. Both have there merits. it is a religious debate. No one is right. they are just correct for how they want to do it.

But do not add expensive beneficial bacteria to a res you are running a chiller on and trying to keep sterile with H202.

Here is a thread where I did some splainin... I am long winded...maybe smoke 2 bowls first.
Introducing Benes to my DWC for the first time

 

[closetcase420]

You mentioned weak stems. Go to any hydro store and ask for a silica potash treatment. I use Mad Farmers Silica. It is useful in raising Ph as well as it really brings up the Ph. so be careful adding it. Potash and Silica are vital to cell wall formation. You will notice almost immediately much stronger plants that can stand up under heavy flowers. Advanced Nutrient makes a Ph perfect version that is expensive. The cheap stuff is expensive enough and you don't need to add a lot. You don't need to add it every time. Once every few weeks is more than enough. But it should be used in any grow soil or hydro for optimal results. Not using it and you can do everything in the world and still not get the best results you could have. In soil you can add raw potash and silica to the blend in the beginning and you will be good to go but in Hydro you need to add it as you go.

I will pick up Silica tomorrow. Botanicare Silica Blast I believe..

Should I introduce it into the tank now or wait for the roots to come out of the pots?

You also sound a bit confused still about ppm. I think you are thinking way too hard about it. It is very simple.
...
But don't get overwhelmed here...it is simple addition and subtraction. It is all based on a relative score based on how much effort you put into clean water.

PPM.. I get it. I bookmarked this post.

Now talk to me about what nutrient schedule to follow.

I want to stick with the GH trio for now but am definitely open to future suggestions.

What do you think about this chart from GH? This is what they recommend for the Trio series.

General Hydroponics – Grow indoor. Grow outdoor. Grow with us.

I'm not sure which I would follow, the recirculating or the drain to waste.

 

[closetcase420]

Yes, my veg I put 20 gallons of water in my rdwc(4 plant sites with res), 40 mil calmag, 40 mil of grow, 20 mil of micro, 20 mil of bloom, 50-100mil silica 100 mil of floranectar, 60 mil of H2O2, and 250 mil of fulpower(humic acid) makes the plants better absorb nutes. It says 10-30mil/gal in hydro, but you don't need to go full strength with dwc. I only go full strength with the armorsi(silica) and H2O2, since I'm always battling funky roots. look at my plants, I'm still learning this shit. PSTDgrower's Veg Room

Thanks for your feeding schedule.

Do you use the same schedule during flower or do you increase the nutes?

 

[PTSDgrower]

I have used orca and now I have 1/4 bottle left that I should just throw away. It gunks my shit up within a day or 2. I went synthetic, I took science over nature, since I'm doing something unnatural with hydroponics...

 

[closetcase420]

uh oh... PTSD opened that can of worms...

So there is now a recommendation to use H202. Hydrogen Peroxide is used primarily to kill unwanted bacteria. So be very carful not to waste money on beneficial bacteria and also add in H202.

I actually have a bottle of H202 already that I bought after I experienced root rot during my first grow. I opted not to use it and bought the chiller. I've been running at 62-65 degrees ever since and the roots have always looked very healthy. I have no intention on using H202. I do however think I may look into the floranectar and fulpower. Any thoughts about the addition of that plus the silica?