Thanks Emeraldo, one question I have looking at your setup, I notice you have cages in pots in pots an example being the Durban in the far right pic above, what’s the idea there and do you have big holes in the interior pots? I haven’t seen this before and I guess as an inexperienced grower I worry that if you were planning to transplant from smaller interior pot into bigger outer pot, you might damage some tap roots if they’d already outgrown the small pot.
Emeraldo's 2021 East-Facing Balcony Grow
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I spluttered a bit into my coffee on reading this too, as my balcony attempts were mere bonsais in comparison to Emeraldo's very impressive balcony triffids.
are you calling last year’s monsters stealthy?!
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- #44
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
Primeau,
what my friend Donkey Member is trying to express (and I hope his tongue doesn't do permanent damage to his cheek), is that my 2020 balcony grow was a very special form of stealth grow.
With which I agree. But stealth is stealth, even if it comes with the warning "don't try this at home, kids."
Apart from the fact that my grow last year at 38L was in California (where legal), it was extremely unlikely to be seen by anyone. Even so, I don't recommend this technique outside of a country where cannabis is legal.
@Stunger 's technique is highly recommended for those to whom stealth is critical: Keeping the plants below the line of sight of anyone passing by the balcony.
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- #45
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
Primeau
Your question shows that you understand this already. I like to transplant without damaging the roots, and so I "transplant" leaving the plant always in the pot it is growing in. The hole in the bottom of each pot gives the roots a way to reach the soil underneath the pot (and inside the next larger pot).
The idea started out as an equivalent of an air pot for seedlings. Instead of a solo cup (which usually does not give the seedling enough oxygen and doesn't drain quickly), I tried using a bit of mesh rolled in a cylinder. To hold the soil in, I set the cylinder on a widemouth jar lid. If the lid is the right size, it also offers a little bit of side support to keep the mesh cylinder stable and centered. But you gotta be careful at this stage, you can knock these cylinders over, or drop them (happened to me this year, luckily all survived).
The soil inside the cylinder dries quickly, which is what the seedlings need, and I also use a spray bottle to keep the seedling and its root area moist. You can spray right through the mesh into the root area. Using a spray bottle also oxygenates the water, which I think is also a plus.
I germinate in a wet paper towel and transfer the popped seed to a rooter, and when the root comes out the bottom of the rooter, I set the rooter into a half-filled cylinder and fill in the rest with soil up to just under the cotyledons. A healthy vigorous seedling tap root will then usually zip down through the seedling soil and out the bottom of the cylinder in a few days. If you lift the cylinder gently and very carefully just a little, you can peek under it and see if the root has reached the upside-down jar lid. At that point, after maybe a week, the whole cylinder can easily be "transplanted" into a small plastic pot that has an inch of soil in the bottom. You get your desitination pot ready with an inch or so of moist soil, then, quickly removing the lid I set the cylinder onto the new soil and add soil all around it to cover most of the mesh. A key part of preparation of the destination pot is to use a small plastic pot with a hole cut in the bottom, but with mesh taped over the hole to allow drainage while holding the soil in.
A few weeks later, when the time comes (when roots are visibly pushing out through the mesh on the bottom of the small pot), the bottom mesh is ripped off and the small pot is set into a larger pot of soil. So far this year, I've done that with all the plants. The larger ceramic pots all have a good amount of soil in the bottom, and the roots will occupy whatever space you give them.
The reasons for this complicated up-potting technique are first, getting ample oxygen to the roots in early veg, but also water retention later in the summer. I am absent for a month or longer during the grow, and the large plastic pots inside even larger ceramic actually helps keeps the roots moist and cool during the hottest part of the summer. If your patio has hot tiles in the summer, be sure to keep them off the hot tiles -- the heat can damage roots, resulting in hermies or damaging the plant. I use a ceramic vessel called a Blumat also, which transfers/siphons water to the soil as it dries. I recommend Blumats if you will be away, they are a truly useful device (not unlike an olla watering system in miniature).
In the case of Durban this year, I wanted to encourage that plant to get big (she is my only successfully germinated Durban seed and seemed to struggle at first), so I gave her a tall, deep pot big enough to let her get a lot of volume, probably a 15 gallon pot, though I haven't got the exact volume. Now in veg, I am hoping she will discover the depth of the soil and put roots way down with the corresponding volume above ground as well. When the stretch comes in about a month or six weeks, she will have room and resources to do that.
As @Stunger can testify, your plants will get as big as they can, and the amount of soil you give them (if you are growing in pots and not in the ground) controls their size. In a stealth grow, size can be a problem. Also, choose your strains by odor (if you have nosey neighbors, don't grow skunk!).
Lots of good info there. I especially think the double potting approach is a really beneficial one for pots in the direct hot sun especially if they're surrounded with concrete that radiates out more heat.
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- #47
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's an outdoor grow thing. Keeping the pots off the hot tiles, even lifting them onto something that has air under it helps. Sometimes I spray the plants with water, including the ceramic pots. Black plastic tends to heat up too, but if inside a ceramic pot and partially covered by soil helps keep that cool too. If the plants are on something with wheels, they can be moved into sun or shade, depending on temperature.
Thanks for taking the time to explain @Emeraldo this is very informative and all makes a lot of good sense. Those plants were enormous! I especially like the mesh cylinder idea for seedlings and will probably give that a try next time around. I’ve just had a root ball come a part a bit on me during transplant a couple of days ago too which I’m sure the roots did not enjoy and I could have easily just cut the bottom out of the cheap 1-gallon plastic pot to avoid that stress, now I know 
We’re legally allowed to grow a few plants where I live so stealth is not a necessity but I still try to be somewhat discrete as I’m not confident all of my neighbours appreciate this plant. We’ll see how discrete this grow becomes towards the end as the plants get bigger. I’m interested in trying the quad lining approach that @Stunger has demonstrated so well for future grows.
The final home for my plants is 10-gallon fabric pots and I have them on pot caddy’s which keeps the bottoms a few inches off the stone patio and allows them to breath while also making it easy for me to move them around the patio or under the pergola for protection from poor weather. Most of my plants are in black fabric pots though as I hadn’t researched or considered overheating. I have some tan fabric pots on the way now for the last couple plants and maybe I can put white sheets around the black ones if they seem to be getting too warm.
Thanks again for all the detail! This is very good information that will help me as I continue to learn and gain experience.
We’re legally allowed to grow a few plants where I live so stealth is not a necessity but I still try to be somewhat discrete as I’m not confident all of my neighbours appreciate this plant. We’ll see how discrete this grow becomes towards the end as the plants get bigger. I’m interested in trying the quad lining approach that @Stunger has demonstrated so well for future grows.
The final home for my plants is 10-gallon fabric pots and I have them on pot caddy’s which keeps the bottoms a few inches off the stone patio and allows them to breath while also making it easy for me to move them around the patio or under the pergola for protection from poor weather. Most of my plants are in black fabric pots though as I hadn’t researched or considered overheating. I have some tan fabric pots on the way now for the last couple plants and maybe I can put white sheets around the black ones if they seem to be getting too warm.
Thanks again for all the detail! This is very good information that will help me as I continue to learn and gain experience.
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- #49
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
Those fabric pots are very good. They don't get hot like plastic and they drain wonderfully. They will dry out nicely after watering, but the downside is they don't retain moisture for long if you'll be away. The plants in my grow last year are in 15 gallon fabric pots. Yes, @Stunger's a practicing quadliner, and it is fascinating to watch his plants take shape over the course of the season. I just top and LST. If you have any questions, just ask!Thanks for taking the time to explain @Emeraldo this is very informative and all makes a lot of good sense. Those plants were enormous! I especially like the mesh cylinder idea for seedlings and will probably give that a try next time around. I’ve just had a root ball come a part a bit on me during transplant a couple of days ago too which I’m sure the roots did not enjoy and I could have easily just cut the bottom out of the cheap 1-gallon plastic pot to avoid that stress, now I know
We’re legally allowed to grow a few plants where I live so stealth is not a necessity but I still try to be somewhat discrete as I’m not confident all of my neighbours appreciate this plant. We’ll see how discrete this grow becomes towards the end as the plants get bigger. I’m interested in trying the quad lining approach that @Stunger has demonstrated so well for future grows.
The final home for my plants is 10-gallon fabric pots and I have them on pot caddy’s which keeps the bottoms a few inches off the stone patio and allows them to breath while also making it easy for me to move them around the patio or under the pergola for protection from poor weather. Most of my plants are in black fabric pots though as I hadn’t researched or considered overheating. I have some tan fabric pots on the way now for the last couple plants and maybe I can put white sheets around the black ones if they seem to be getting too warm.
Thanks again for all the detail! This is very good information that will help me as I continue to learn and gain experience.
Hi Emeraldo, nice garden! I just noticed we have the same rolling dollies. I'm thinking I might wrap the outside of my fabric pot if it dries out too fast.Primeau
Your question shows that you understand this already. I like to transplant without damaging the roots, and so I "transplant" leaving the plant always in the pot it is growing in. The hole in the bottom of each pot gives the roots a way to reach the soil underneath the pot (and inside the next larger pot).
The idea started out as an equivalent of an air pot for seedlings. Instead of a solo cup (which usually does not give the seedling enough oxygen and doesn't drain quickly), I tried using a bit of mesh rolled in a cylinder. To hold the soil in, I set the cylinder on a widemouth jar lid. If the lid is the right size, it also offers a little bit of side support to keep the mesh cylinder stable and centered. But you gotta be careful at this stage, you can knock these cylinders over, or drop them (happened to me this year, luckily all survived).
The soil inside the cylinder dries quickly, which is what the seedlings need, and I also use a spray bottle to keep the seedling and its root area moist. You can spray right through the mesh into the root area. Using a spray bottle also oxygenates the water, which I think is also a plus.
I germinate in a wet paper towel and transfer the popped seed to a rooter, and when the root comes out the bottom of the rooter, I set the rooter into a half-filled cylinder and fill in the rest with soil up to just under the cotyledons. A healthy vigorous seedling tap root will then usually zip down through the seedling soil and out the bottom of the cylinder in a few days. If you lift the cylinder gently and very carefully just a little, you can peek under it and see if the root has reached the upside-down jar lid. At that point, after maybe a week, the whole cylinder can easily be "transplanted" into a small plastic pot that has an inch of soil in the bottom. You get your desitination pot ready with an inch or so of moist soil, then, quickly removing the lid I set the cylinder onto the new soil and add soil all around it to cover most of the mesh. A key part of preparation of the destination pot is to use a small plastic pot with a hole cut in the bottom, but with mesh taped over the hole to allow drainage while holding the soil in.
A few weeks later, when the time comes (when roots are visibly pushing out through the mesh on the bottom of the small pot), the bottom mesh is ripped off and the small pot is set into a larger pot of soil. So far this year, I've done that with all the plants. The larger ceramic pots all have a good amount of soil in the bottom, and the roots will occupy whatever space you give them.
The reasons for this complicated up-potting technique are first, getting ample oxygen to the roots in early veg, but also water retention later in the summer. I am absent for a month or longer during the grow, and the large plastic pots inside even larger ceramic actually helps keeps the roots moist and cool during the hottest part of the summer. If your patio has hot tiles in the summer, be sure to keep them off the hot tiles -- the heat can damage roots, resulting in hermies or damaging the plant. I use a ceramic vessel called a Blumat also, which transfers/siphons water to the soil as it dries. I recommend Blumats if you will be away, they are a truly useful device (not unlike an olla watering system in miniature).
In the case of Durban this year, I wanted to encourage that plant to get big (she is my only successfully germinated Durban seed and seemed to struggle at first), so I gave her a tall, deep pot big enough to let her get a lot of volume, probably a 15 gallon pot, though I haven't got the exact volume. Now in veg, I am hoping she will discover the depth of the soil and put roots way down with the corresponding volume above ground as well. When the stretch comes in about a month or six weeks, she will have room and resources to do that.
As @Stunger can testify, your plants will get as big as they can, and the amount of soil you give them (if you are growing in pots and not in the ground) controls their size. In a stealth grow, size can be a problem. Also, choose your strains by odor (if you have nosey neighbors, don't grow skunk!).
- Thread starter
- #51
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
Nice looking plant, Stinker. Huge fabric pot, lots of room. Did you quadline her?
I drilled lots of holes in my plastic pots to assist with oxygen for the soil and air pruning for the roots, but the pots can dry out pretty fiercely when I am away for a week, so like you I have thought of wrapping them in perhaps some plastic food wrap when I'm away to reduce the evaporation rate.
No, topped once and some LST. If she starts to look too big for the greenhouse, I'll supercrop prior to stretch.
I was looking at garden material used to block weeds yet still able to breath.
I'm considering topping the 6 most dominant branches. Do you think that would be too much? I need to flower in the greenhouse as we get too much rain. The max height in the house is 6'.
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- #56
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
Topping 6 all at once might slow her down, but prolly no harm done. I have a three-tipped plant in this grow, the Durban that at first could not put out a leading growth tip, so she put out three with equal vigor and dominance -- they are all three growing at the same rate.
I was thinking of topping all three, but it might be easier on her if I topped one each few days or so. Thing is, the grow experts say topping should stop two weeks before flowering starts, so I'll need to have all topping done by about August 1 or so. Topping or FIM maybe would be better than topping.
Maybe @Stunger has a comment on that. I have the impression he is more into LST than topping, though quadlining starts out with some pretty massive topping. I'd just prefer to chop once or twice.
Question for you guys who also use rolling pot caddies / dollies: do you rotate your pots on a regular basis to try to give each part of the plant equal exposure to the sun or do you try to keep them at the same orientation as much as possible for a better representation of what a plant growing in nature would experience? So far I’ve been rotating mine more so to try to regulate the temperature of the pot, but I’ve also read it’s good to minimize moving your plant if possible as they will naturally adapt to their orientation with the sun. I think that I will definitely continue rolling my pots under the pergola for protection from the weather but maybe it’s a good idea to have them always resting in the same orientation?
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- #58
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
I do that too. Rotating. It allows sunlight to reach bud sites that won't get as much light if always in the same orientation. Today at noon I turned the plants 180 degrees around, to give direct sunlight to budsites on the backside. I don't think there is any downside there, the minimal movement involved isn't harmful i.m.h.o.
Every plant that I have topped I have only done a single topping, and then I've either trained them with LST and/or supercropping to keep them low in a quadline style. However, if I venture out to try growing in the garden rather the balcony I would consider multiple topping in a manifold style.
