First Grow-Aero-Stealth Box

[Skybound]

All righty then. gimme a few minutes to snap and upload.

 

[Skybound]

The white hairs did not come through in the pictures so well as I just sprayed everyone a few minutes prior. the mother was sprayed with a mix that I pulled from the aeroponics res the other day when I realized I mixed all of that up @ 100% strength. To remedy that I bled off about half of the res and topped it off with water, then again when the pH wandered into the acidic side a few days later. the nute mix that was bled off I saved to mix with distilled water for foliar spray and regular soil feed. The beginning mixture contained 100% strength GH Flora series as per seedling schedule of recirculating, 100% strength GH Armor Si (silica) and a good guesstimated measure of Great White Mycorrhizae.

The temps and RH appear to be optimal. The little doo dad in between the hydro sites is just a temp sensor that allows me to monitor and slightly control room temps remotely. The LED on the sensor has been taped over with white duct tape.

The clones look substantially bigger and more developed than the seedlings that were all set into life motion on the same day.

I don't yet know enough to identify general strain characteristics, but these rounded leaves caught my eyes and was hoping a more educated guess can be offered as to what possible or likely family this little guy was sired from?

Centered in this pic appears to me to be a sativa dominant or pure sativa plant. the narrow leaf blades give me this belief. I hope I am correct about this too as I definitely would rather smoke a sativa than indica when I occasionally smoke. Undiagnosed possible health issues are such that indicas give me fits of sleep apnea and I often wake up gasping for air as if my body forgets to breath when I nod out. Sativas IMO are just more enjoyable when pain management are not a priority.

A more of a side view of the 2 dominant clones progress. I will try to keep them both alive when their mother is flipped into flower, but space constraints may limit me to only saving one, so obviously the most dominant of the 2 will be earmarked.

And finally a bust of mom. Her vegetative growth has flourished. Most signs of stress and/or deficiency or lockout appear to be in retreat. Splitting tops are developing great. Still hoping two of the split tops on the highest set of nodes below the 4 mains has a growth spurt superior to the rest of the plant, but whatever the plant decides is best for itself I will be content with. as many times throughout this plant's life that I was sure I had went too far, and it recovered, I owe at least this much level of respect to be content with it's nature to grow where and how much it pleases. I am roughly 90% sure that it is female as I've been looking out for signs that the vets told me to take note of, but I will feel better when I get a loupe magnifying glass from the hydro store that I can use to really get in there and have a look see.

Another thing I want to be known is that I am having slight email issues for some reason. If this persists, I WILL get current with everyone else's journals tomorrow, but will continue to try and get there tonight. Until next time, you stoners have a great evening and remainder of your holiday weekend!

 

[stealthgrow]

They are looking great Sky. Keep up the good work.

 

[donpaul.p]

looking good,

the sativa plants tend to have skinny fingers on the leaves and long fingers, sativas also grow taller than indica plants and seem to grow taller at a quicker rate,

indica plants tend to have chunky leaves and grow in more of a bush than a big xmas tree shaped plant, you can usually tell in seedling stage which plants are indica and sativa, but then their the strains that are a mix of the 2,

how often do you spray the plants, its best not to spray them once they start flowering as it can cause pm issues and also the light can burn the buds, i used to spray my plants once a week and then i noticed one of my flowering plants had what looked like burn spots on the buds, i couldnt work out what it was then someone asked if i was spraying the plants, i told them i was and they said its not needed and my problem was caused by spraying the plants,

so now i only spray once a month just to let any dust wash off, but when im in flower i dont spray the plants anymore

 

[Skybound]

I was spraying everyday, sometimes twice a day. For the mom I alternate between foliar feed and straight water (with silica added). I didn't think I'd get problems when spraying pre flowers on a plant still in veg. I was definitely not going to spray once the lights flipped. Also, b/c I have the 6 CFL reflector hood almost a foot above the canopy top, I didn't hink there would be light burns from the droplets acting as magnifying glasses. I usually raise the reflector a little bit higher for fear of having any mist landing on the bulbs causing one to burst. I will dial down the spraying now that you set me straight. As always donpaul, thank you again!

 

[Skybound]

Any thoughts of what type this is?

 

[donpaul.p]

its looks like its an indica strain, could be 60% indica 40% sativa, id say it certainly looks like it has more indica in it than sativa, the sativa leaves tend to grow a bit skinnier and a bit longer, thats what i notice with mine when i grow indica and sativa strains, usually if a plant is more indica then the leaves will show this, so looking at yours id say its slightly more indica than it is sativa

 

[Skybound]

9-3 feed update,

Moisture level in the soil dropped to a 3, so I mixed up the following feed percentage based upon the GH Flora Series week 3 late growth feed schedule. *Note, pH & PPM readings are given in 2 figures. The first figure is in the jug before watering, the second figure is the runoff under the pot in the collection container also pictured. The second PPM is not very accurate as the watering collected and added many other parts from the soil and greatly increased this number. I recorded that anyways for the purpose of this record.
Micro-.................... 5ml - 100%
Gro-...................... 2.5ml - 50%
Bloom-.................. 1.25ml - 25%
Mycorrhizae........... - .25 TSP
Armor Si (silica)..... - 2.5ml - 100%
pH........................ - 5.8 (@ or near) -- 6.0-6.5
ppm...................... - 560 -- 1330-1340

I also did the best to get a better shot of the white hairs. They are very thin, and though I can see them with my naked eye, my camera has difficult time capturing that. Also, what do you think of the hanging root from the bottom? There is one or 2 out the other side as well, should I just cut them?

 

[donpaul.p]

i cant work out how your using your pot,
is the plant growing in soil, if so whats the pot sitting in that has the air line going to it, or do you just use that when you water, its just a bit difficult to tell from the pics, but if your using bubble ponics like a small dwc set up then the roots do need to grow out of the top part so their sitting in the water,

in a dwc the roots are always in the res and the air stone stops the roots from dying, in my dwc i have the plant growing in a small amount of growing medium but the root mass is in the res, im sure you know how a dwc works so im probably telling you stuff you all ready know, its just hard to tell from the pics what kind of set up your running, are you growing in soil or is the plant growing in soil and your using dwc to feed the plant,

if you are feeding the plant using the bubbles and res then you need to poke holes in the pot as the roots need to grow down into the res, if your just growing in soil then the roots would normally die when they grow out of the pot, but looks like you are using a dwc type set up,

ill try read back a few pages, im subd to way to many journals and it gets a bit confusing at times so i need to read back a few pages to remind me of whats going on

 

[Skybound]

I'm not mad if you forget details about me as I do the same, misplace who did what and when. It's a soil plant that has out grown it's pot in literally 3 days. I have to procure a 5 gallon bucket to transplant to. when I feed, I used to only use the clear jug as a catch basin, but it held the pot so well, I decided to cut it up to hold the larger 3.5 gallon pot. After feeding, the water would bleed off for a long time after the initial amount came out. So the roots that poked out of the exiting holes just 3 days after the transplant from the 1 gal to the 3.5 gal would just be sitting in the stagnant water that continued to slowly drip out so I attached an air stone being as though my hydro setup was right next to the soil. I just spliced in with a splitter and viola.

Another update. I don't know how, but most likely due to poor organization skills on my part, I let the hydro setup run bone dry. Well not bone, but below the pump minimum level and the sprayers no longer sprayed. I'm guessing for about a day or two. the clones looked the most affected, and the seedlings I guess just went back to sucking off the cotyledons. The clones were wilted badly, and upon inspection of their small root system, they were very dry. So I took a premixed foliar spray with a diluted form of what I bled off that same system about a week ago and sprayed the crap out of the roots and cubes, then flew to the store to get 2 more gallons of distilled and mixed in the flowing;
Micro- ...........4ml 50%
Gro- .............5ml 50%
Bloom- .........1.25ml 50%
Armor Si- .....2.5ml 100%
(Mycorrhizae- .25 TSP), the feed chart that I will attach as a pic calls for 1 TSP per 10 gallons in a hydroponic, but being as though there was a lot still on the bottom of the root chamber and the res, I didn't add any this time. Also, I gave the CO2 mix a good agitation and hopefully the 6 little ones recover. I will try to make another float indicator to go right through the top root chamber and into the res. 2 straws with an eraser plug in one end makes a great float. The spill over tube is already in place to keep the straw vertical, but I do need to drill a small hole in the upper deck. I hope to see recovery by tonight or as soon as they're ready.

 

[RainStacks]

Any thoughts of what type this is?

I have no idea what it is, maybe a random mutation? I think it is really cool how point of each leaf is round! I guess I have a soft spot for mutants now I think your plants will be fine, maybe you can set up a reserve tank with a float, just in case? I am sure you will be on it now though. The plants look like they will bounce back to me. How do the roots look?

 

[donpaul.p]

ok cool,

well the problem i see is that you either need to make it into a dwc grow and have the res below the pot or just water the pot less and throw the run off away, this will then allow the roots to die as they come out the bottom of the pot, you might get some problems with the roots wicking back up the run off if their is that much run off, so you could either just feed using the res under the pot with the air stone in it or just water a bit less so their is less run off,

i can pretty much judge how much my plants need and get very little run off if any at all, the only time i do let some water run off is when i flip from veg nutes to flower nutes, i give a good a watering to flush out the veg nutes so i know nothing is building up,

 

[Skybound]

The roots lookt'ed very dry with a feint yellowing. I'm sure they're fine now as the plants are starting to stand back up. The soil pot will stay in soil. I wanted to turn it hydro a month ago, but too many people were not confident that I'd be successful so I stayed in the dirt. I will just drain off the catch basin and let them dry out b/c I still plan to transplant one more time to a 5 gallon pot before I send it out to the boon docks to flower. If I let the roots down there get too wild, transplanting will only damage them and we don't want to hinder anything more than we have.

 

[AfricanGrower]

>>>The clones were wilted badly, and upon inspection of their small root system, they were very dry. So I took a premixed foliar spray with a diluted form of what I bled off that same system about a week ago and sprayed the crap out of the roots and cubes,

Not to be too concerned, though I would expect to see more damage after 2 days without a proper watering. Plants (marijuana especially) are tough organisms and they fight to survive. A little fact about wilting plants that you may not have known: The ability for a plant to grow straight up is due to a system that even us humans have; it is called 'turgor pressure' and it's what gives us the 'elasticity' in our skin. Just like human skin, plant tissue also have this pressure within their cell membranes and is kept regulated by you know what: WATER With little h20 getting through the plants system the most ideal thing for it to do is to lower the angle of nutrient distribution to the rest of the plant. When you start to see yellowing of lower leaves and of new growth you should then maybe start thinking of the next strain of bean you are going to put into the soil!

>>>Any thoughts of what type this is?

Safe to say that this IS indeed marijuana! (My attempt at sarcasm over the ISP ) The first thing that comes to my mind when I see this plant is 'Duck's Foot'. And yes this is a strain of weed that has predominantly rounded, webbed leaves that resemble its name. HERE'S a link to a thread on 420 forums

>>>you either need to make it into a dwc grow...you could either just feed using the res under the pot with the air stone in it

Hey Don Paul, is it possible to have a hybrid system of soil and hydro. Of course you probably can, but let me rephrase! Is it optimal to run a hyrdo system using as much soil that a 3 gallon pot could hold. I mean once you factor out the potentially damaging loose sediment and the absorbancy of the soil, could this merely be no more than an 'automatic watering' system for a soil grow. I don't know man but these are the questions I ask myself when I'm this stoned

 

[Skybound]

Good read on the ducksfoot, thanks for the link.

 

[AfricanGrower]

My pleasure.

 

[Skybound]

 

[AfricanGrower]

Ahh, so much simpler! Is anything guiding the straw from inside the res?

 

[Skybound]

The spill drain as this is part ebb&flo. If I ever build another, I will make it so the arms that extend from lower to upper continue through the upper lid. A hole can be drilled in the side of the spill over tube to control water level height in the root chamber, and also be used as a continuous guide for the float, and also for filling the res back up quickly by adding a funnel. The other arm I should have poking out of the upper lid as well with a screw in PVC cap that could be removed to screw in a 1/4" barb to attach a hose to empty the res for nute changes. I do have that cap just below the upper lid (opposite side of the float), but I have to lift off the lid to connect the threaded barb. I think I will buy one more 3 gallon bucket to make those changes if possible. i'll keep you posted. It's a good setup for being so small, just could be so much better.

 

[Skybound]

I'm sorry to hear about you having to shut down. That happened to me 3 times within 9 years before I finally got it to be stealth and totally hush. I was really hoping you would be able to showcase my secret method. Hey, lets not rule it out. You could always get yourself some new digs in the future to make that possible. I'm actually certain that you will. This is just a delay in your game.
You know what they say...when one door closes another one opens. Now you have the time to think up a new set-up (possibly at a new place if you want to do that in the future, this way you have less heads seeing what's cooking) and you will be all the more adept. Matter of fact, if you are able to go bigger than a closet next time around, I will see to it that you are a Supreme Lord Jedi Master of this craft. Here's what I could enable you to do:

1.)Multiple container DWC with no connected water circulation plumbing whatsoever yet a central multi-zone auto top off system that is made possible by a soon to be Patent Pending (yet not for sale anytime soon, I assure you, I will only give the fully hidden and encapsulated sensors and controllers to one person, you...at least for now) control module and auto top off level sensors. There is one sensor for each container and it is infinitely expandable with one additional interface module for each 36 containers and chaining additional 4-zone control modules. Imagine a multitude of containers without any connected circulation plumbing to get clogged with roots yet they are all topped off separately from one RO unit.

2.)No water pumps are ever used for circulation because they are not necessary.Only for filling during water change (even then it is not 100% necessary but thats another topic for another post) Water pumps heat the water much, much more watt-for-watt , for the same amount of oxygenation and surface agitation that an air pump would do just the same but with much less wattage.Using very large 8" diameter fish farm air stones will create vicious surface agitation (readxygenation) with very little heat induction, and plenty of bubbling for the cloner/seedling stage. 100 watts of air pump can create enough oxygenation for 12-20 gallon containers. If you only use a 4 site system, you could probably get away with a 25 watt pump! Even better still, make a small intake air hose (through a small carbon filter forced through a low cfm fan, pulling air from outside) to bring in cooler clean lint free air for the air pump that would cool your water during cold months and even preclude the need for a chiller during warm months. Best thing about those 8" stones is that they last forever if you valve them up properly and give them a good cleaning after each cycle. That's one 8 inch stone per container, not just one in an auxiliary res.Heck, my system doesn't use an aux res anyway. Those were never necessary to begin with.

3.) No need to have walking space around the plants. Even though it is perceived by many that you need some space to walk around flowering plants, I assure you that having empty unused footprint under the lights is the wrong way to go. With my method (this bit of advice is not dependent on the controller, yet the way that you put them into flowering) you simply put clones (or a seedling in a small peat pellet) in a small hole in a foam disc that sits in your bubble cloner (or just use the same DWC flowering container as a bubble cloner because the 8" air stone creates perfectly popping bubbles above the water surface when you adjust the valve properly) and when the vegging plant gets so big that it tips over (it will do that because you don't use media for support except for a small peat pellet if its a seedling and that doesn't give support in late veg anyway) that is when it is time to put it into flowering and you tie it down at just a few points along the main stem so that it remains at a full 90 degree tilt when in the flowering room. This enables you to veg longer without having to worry about a 3x stretch , just a moderate stretch upward, and you get the same benefits of LST without having to go back in the flowering room after Day 1. You can use the entire footprint of the room. No need to go back in for water changes either.
4.) Water changes are very fast and can also be few and far between. Each container has a 1-1/2" vacuum manifold inlet that goes down right to the very bottom of the container. You cut the inlets to the exact length needed for your particular container (I'll explain how the containers are provided later). If you are doing DWC properly and have at least a 20 gallon Rubbermaid Brute Tote (tote is good for low height requirements) or 20 gallon Rubbermaid Brute round trash can, then you will have at least 13-15 gallons of useable water inside the container even when the root ball is at its biggest. For this reason there is no need to do too many water changes. I will explain why this enables you to do fast , right down to the very bottom water changes with a wet vac, without ever harming roots (this was my method for 5 years mind you). The vac is set-up on a table above the container level(outside the room) with a valve in the drain hole for easy emptying via connected hose to a toilet drain or by fixed in place means. Way faster and more reliable than a water pump. No chance of getting roots tangled in an impeller cavity or clogged basket screens.
When you first set up your clones or seedlings in the container, you will not need to change water for another 10 days or even up to 3 weeks if you have a slow rooting variety ( mine always rooted within 8-12 days). Even though you will have small roots by the time you need to add nutes and adjust pH, they wont be so long that they get sucked in by the vac. Remember the manifold inlet stays at the bottom of the container far away from new roots anyway. By the time you need to do the second water change ( which will be at least 3 weeks away because of the 13:1 gallon/plant count ratio, the roots may very well be at the bottom of the container, but the root ball is going to be so massive that it doesn't matter if it gets caught at the inlet of the wet vac manifold. It will not stop the wet vac from doing its job. It will not harm the roots either. No more clogged pumps, no more clogged pipes. Did I mention that the separate vacuum outlets for each container are outside of the room? Out of the way of the plants. Although, if for some reason you want the thing inside, you can do that to. Everything is very easily adjustable.
4.) You provide the containers yourself. Think about it, why would somebody want to get a container delivered that they could easily pick up at home depot, lowes or the local hardware store. Your containers don't have any plumbing holes. No bulkheads, no uniseals. You simply drill 4 holes in the lid yourself to accommodate the RO hose, the level sensor, 3/4" air stem and the vacuum manifold inlet. I'm sure everybody that does this hobby has a drill. That shouldn't be a problem. Only you know how much headroom you have below your lights. It is best to optimize the amount of usable gallons by providing the containers that best suit your needs yourself.

5.) This system comes with an auto top off controller that is un-defeatable. Can't malfunction because the device is not being used for anything even close to its cycling potential. Float switches are unreliable so they are not part of this system. Ball cocks are even worse. I use a switch that is immune to any of the conditions you could throw at it. You could turn the water surface into a hellish wave pool by putting the full force of your air pump through one air stone and simultaneously set the de-watering vac to blow through the water column (instead of sucking) and still the level sensor does not get faked out, harmed or even give a shit. It does not degrade over time either. You and the next generation born the very day you start using the system will be long gone and the controller will still work. Doesn't get mucked up over time, it's that simple. It is not a sensitive electronic printed circuit board device. It is part and parcel of a reliable electromechanical relay switchboard that is fully encapsulated to be preserved for your entire life.
6.) Because of my system, for the first time in history, it is possible to do a multiple container DWC tree grow ( a la vertical lighting) with a central auto top off with no connected plumbing and a lazy susan pail caddy under each tree. This eliminates the problem that is encountered when 4 trees are grown in a diamond configuration surrounded by 5 vertically hung lights. That problem being one side of the plant facing the wall and not getting as much light as the other three sides of the tree. You can spin the trees around periodically to avoid a dead leaf side without upsetting the crucial re-circulation plumbing of a connected dwc tree grow. Although, you cannot leave the horizontal portion of the vacuum manifold connected while spinning it around (or the air pipe but it is very easily removable and put back in with less than a minute of twisting a thread here and a union there, not a hindrance whatsoever) but it's not an issue at all.
7.) There is an optional water change module that aids in automatic or semi-automatic water changes if that's what your into. Think about it. Even if you like to do this step manually ( which I like personally) wouldn't it be nice to use a hand-off-auto switch to fill each container (after quickly emptying with the wet vac) and have the filling pump stop automatically when the exact desired level is achieved? The same level/auto top off switch that establishes the auto top off level also stops the filling pump so that the auto top off level and water change filling level are exactly the same and in tune. The timer relays associated with the water change module are known to work with 120 volt DC circuits (the harshest control voltage there is) for upwards of 25 years in the harshest industrial treatment facilities. Think about how long it will last when your just using it for 24 and/or 120 volts AC (AC is much less taxing on equipment than DC).
8.) I don't provide any parts that you could get at the Hardware store much cheaper than what it would cost for me to buy it myself and pay shipping. That wouldn't make sense and it would be an insult to the abilities of the operator who is going to use the system. I simply provide you my unique technology (that cannot be provided by someone else) and you go down the road to the hardware store to pick up the stuff that can be provided by so many others.What kind of inventor would I be if I was trying to give you some 13 gallon kitchen size wastebaskets connected with pvc?? I give instruction on how to layout and custom build for your particular room. This is the only way you will be able retrofit the system to the exact full footprint of your room. Your available grow space should always be the determining factor in how the containers are laid out. This is the only way to get the most GPW harvests possible for your space. That is an inconvenient truth for manufacturers who sell systems with connected plumbing. All too often a compromise has to be made because the room will sometimes need to be re-structured according to the available system configurations they offer. There is no set configuration with my system and no plumbing to cause the great flood of 20XX. FLOODPROOF as long as you do the little bit of RO connections properly and to be honest I can't see how you could mess that up. Roots cannot cause a flood the way they can with a pre-manufactured connected system.
9.) Did I mention that with each container ,being its own separate reservoir,you are able to run as many different strains as you have containers, the same way that you would in an individual soil container garden? 7 week, 8 week, 9 week , 10 week, 11 or 12 etc.. Doesn't matter because each plant is a separate entity. No other multiple zone system has ever been able to achieve that without poking a hole into the side of a container which could (and sometimes does) cause a flood. None of those systems offer an included foolproof auto top off either.
In short... In the past there were pros and cons with every growing method. No cons here. So, are you in?
P.S. I also have a clever way of not making the lighting above the containers heat up the water. That's for another post.
P.P.S. I don't mean to irritate anybody by saying this but it actually is the truth. My system makes RDWC pointless, inefficient and obsolete. Not to say that RDWC is not a great producer. It certainly is. But it is the predecessor to this system. I've since made leaps and bounds above that method. I'm probably just drawing the ire of so many members right now and doing the opposite of what I intend by saying that but it's simply the truth. I just need someone to show it in action to prove it. If I show it, everybody will think I am biased and lying to support my claims. That's why I need a total stranger (like you) to test it in the open forum.

Apologies first off for taking so long to answer this. these past few days have been a little hectic for me with 2 days of work then recuperation. Anyways, as you may have guessed, I have a few questions;
1) your system is built around a lazy-Susan spinning table (with holes?) to hold the 20 gallon grow containers. 4 sites per lazy-Susan with 5 lights per installation. Are they HID?
2) you will not take pictures of your system, will you at least provide diagrams so I completely understand the general mechanics of the system? The reason I ask is that I can already see that this system is going to easily run me into the thousands, especially if HIDs are used.
3) at the moment, I am understanding that as this is based upon the rotary table to support the grow tubs, then the vacuum lines and RO lines are plumbed in through the center. Is this a variation of a vertical garden?
4) please pardon my level of contempt, but I don't yet feel comfortable about your design to invest a very substantial amount of funds in a system unless you prove that you not only use it, but also that it works for you. HygroHybrid, on YouTube, is pretty famous for his RDWC system that your system is to replace. He is very successful with his system and freely gives away everything about it on his YouTube channel. I completely assure you that if your system is feasible, functional and affordable to the average grower, those 3 factors alone will speak for themselves rather than someone whom you don't know, nor who knows you collaborating on a system whereby the designer will not even publicly cosign and endorse. I truly mean no ill will what-so-ever, I just feel the need to have questions answered prior to committing. I was planning on building an RDWC system within the next few weeks, but if your system really is better, then I'd really like to see how that is so. If you will not share pictures or designs publicly, will you do so privately?
5) I gotta say that I really like the idea of no plumbing, but there is plumbing with a fill line and a vacuum line. I had wondered why growers have not used this idea in their grows in the past. Everyone pipes in their electricity remotely, why not everything else, water, drainage, CO2, ventilation or any others I may have forgotten?

I will likely form new questions in the near future as my squirrel gains momentum on his little wheel in my head. I will continue to ponder over your design (as best as I comprehend it). I do hope you reply to this reply and that we can dialogue a little bit to work out the details better.