High Brix Hydroponics

[FelipeBlu]

I think I need a new TDS pen!

 

[Skybound]

I think I need a new TDS pen!

Why? There are 3 or 4 popular conversion factors, plus other less popular CFs manufacturers use. It's sad, but that's it. Besides, I am content if my TDS resolves to within a tenth of EC or 50ppm. All the TDS meter do is apply a voltage to one electrode and see how much makes it to the other electrode, so in short it measures resistance of the water. I've been using the same $20 meter for about 3 years now, and it replaced another $20 meter that slipped and fell into the drink. The really sensitive probe is the PH probes.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Okay, I get that it’s simple tech, but doesn’t a TDS ppm 250% over elemental ppm seem a bit excessive? Mine is a $10 model LOL, and it is not possible to calibrate it.

I guess I could graph out the data and see if there’s a linear relationship between the two.

 

[Skybound]

Okay, I get that it’s simple tech, but doesn’t a TDS ppm 250% over elemental ppm seem a bit excessive? Mine is a $10 model LOL, and it is not possible to calibrate it.

I guess I could graph out the data and see if there’s a linear relationship between the two.

Oh damn, yeah, that meter paid you back after week 2, lol. All the merter stuff aside, do you have any input or insight about the pursuit of high brix hydro? I'm kinda feeling around in the dark for a pulse on the whole topic.

 

[FelipeBlu]

I think you’re on the right track by experimenting with S and Mg levels. But I’m at least as blind in this area as you.

 

[Aroxol]

I am sick of Google being caught spying and working with hostile governments

Heard an interesting logic behind this one specific to censored version of google search in China that I think escapes most ppl. So simple, yet lost on most. If they don’t work with China, China will just develop their own version of Google that competes with Google. So really, it’s the only realistic business move whether they like it, or more importantly agree with it or not. More of a passive statement, and looking forward to the calcium insights. Good work dude.

 

[Skybound]

Heard an interesting logic behind this one specific to censored version of google search in China that I think escapes most ppl. So simple, yet lost on most. If they don’t work with China, China will just develop their own version of Google that competes with Google. So really, it’s the only realistic business move whether they like it, or more importantly agree with it or not. More of a passive statement, and looking forward to the calcium insights. Good work dude.

I doubt China would be at all content with whatever lesser version Google would sell them, and would likely just keep Google close by to glean as much as they can while also working them state side as well. I don't blame China either because it's taken us 30 years of consecutive generousness/stupidity to get to this point and of course China doesn't want that to stop. But even still, if I escape Google, where Im'a go, Facebook? Here? It's like they used to say, no matter where you go, there you are. I'm not going to lie, I miss Goggle, they return better results than DDG. It's more of a spite thing at this point because I'm knowingly using the inferior search engine for no other reason that to say "Haaa"! I showed them, right?

Calcium, I'm of the mindset to get some calcium sulfate and use about 1 gram/gal and observe. I feel that my calcium now is slightly above the threshold of deficient as my tips teeter between slight tip burn or no tip burn at all right through flush. So I think just a little more would do my gals just right.

 

[Aroxol]

Cal (the way we want it) is a tough nut to crack, def agree on that point. I know you make all your own nutes, but did you ever check out that One Shot from NFTG? Have a friend producing some pretty insane flowers and that’s in his arsenal, so may be worth a look if you haven’t already. I grabbed some, but then switched to a prepackaged soil that’s slowly but surely destroying my garden, however One Shot is on deck for my next run. Seems like an amendment that just removes cal issues from the discussion altogether.

 

[Skybound]

Cal (the way we want it) is a tough nut to crack, def agree on that point. I know you make all your own nutes, but did you ever check out that One Shot from NFTG? Have a friend producing some pretty insane flowers and that’s in his arsenal, so may be worth a look if you haven’t already. I grabbed some, but then switched to a prepackaged soil that’s slowly but surely destroying my garden, however One Shot is on deck for my next run. Seems like an amendment that just removes cal issues from the discussion altogether.

I can't remember which one, but I assume the main calcium product by NFTG, and I looked and they use calcium carbonate which I have in spades, but I got too many PH issues from it. Perhaps NFTG buffered that back down, still, I'd rather figure out how they did it and invest in the buffer than get myself reliant on someone's secret. Once you buy salts, consider yourself permanently removed from the nutrient market. After I failed using calcium acetate for it acting the same way that calcium carbonate did, I kept them both in the jug and just off to the side. Well, I tested the PH the other day and it's down near 4.5 which is the polar opposite of neutral. I suppose all of the vinegar eventually overpowered the carbonate. If I go back to that, I'll have to make a better mix as that was a gallon of vinegar to 190 grams of calcium carbonate. I'm not ruling that out, but the point is I have many options right now, but I want more, lol.

Since you made me think all of that out loud, I'm going to make another batch of calcium acetate from some vinegar and 189.27 grams of calcium carbonate, I just need to track down a better ratio so not to way overdo it with vinegar. I'm thinking my weight to about a quart of vinegar, and give it about a week to rip all the calcium from the carbonate, then skim off the liquids from the solids and mix that with water. I'm sure there's a finite ratio of vinegar to that weight + the difference of a gallon with RO to buffer the calcium carbonate to 6.0 and since all those are cheap and I already have them, I may as well get to trying to flesh that out. PH stable calcium acetate seems like a good plan and will be doable for everyone. Most people use egg shells. I found 4 pounds for like $20.

 

[Aroxol]

You know it’s probably a dumb idea, but I’m just thinking to myself why not try it. I’m using Age Old Cal (in water reservoir, I know I know) because its 20% and plant(s) love it but man does it raise pH. Counteracted by pH down = increase in EC which throws all ratios off. I’m wondering if I pour that out on a plate and let it dry/ powder out. What that can/ will do to it and it’s interaction with water pH wise. May do absolutely nothing or may surprise us. Worth a shot I suppose.

 

[Skybound]

You know it’s probably a dumb idea, but I’m just thinking to myself why not try it. I’m using Age Old Cal (in water reservoir, I know I know) because its 20% and plant(s) love it but man does it raise pH. Counteracted by pH down = increase in EC which throws all ratios off. I’m wondering if I pour that out on a plate and let it dry/ powder out. What that can/ will do to it and it’s interaction with water pH wise. May do absolutely nothing or may surprise us. Worth a shot I suppose.

You using this one?

Derived from CalNite, MagNite and Calcium Acetate (eggshell/vinegar). Someone recently linked me to this thread from Emilya, and how she makes her cal acetate, but then let's it chill for some more days and the PH comes back down. I basically made the same thing, just with pulvedrized calCarb and a full gallon of vinegar, and I observed the PH dipped way down into the acid. I assume the acetate used to make your product had just enough vinegar to leach out the calcium from the cabonate and the result is that your PH pulls upward. I haven't used mine in weeks, but I bet it would pull way down. I'd like to figure out a happy medium to get a concentrate to 6.0, even 5.5, the silica would still counter the light acids. As for salts, Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Nitrate are both very commonly used to formulate many other products that manufacturers make. Just look at the contents of each bottle and you'll see many of the same salts, they just add 0 RO to that, put a jazzy label on a plastic bottle and mark it way up. When you use salts, you can tweak justthe Ca and not change the Mg, or vice-a-versa. Sulfur gets tossed around when you cahnge your macros, but who cares about sulfur. I always want more sulfur, but don't cry if forced to take a little less.

Salts aside though, you can use Hydro Buddy to rework the liquid brand you're using as well and target your elements, and Hydro Buddy will reconfigure that brand's feed chart to get as close to your targets as is possible which IMO makes that app one badass app, and since it's free .......?

 

[Aroxol]

No that’s not the stuff, this is what I’m using:

And my challenge is I know how it’s supposed to be used vs. how I’m using it, and I know the challenges that come with cal and hydro...but man do my weed plants and vegetable plants react to this stuff in a very good way. Love it.

Tried hydro buddy but not as deep into homemade nutes as you are. I pretty much run VegBloom in coco (which I started to amend with a few things), but then recently swapped to SoHum because it offered a hands off approach to autopots... plants ain’t looking so hot in the soil (my fault I’m sure), but in any case it’s likely I’ll go back to coco in autopots soon enough and keep exploring my amendments and cal.

 

[Skybound]

After more research, I'm forming the opinion that foliar sprays containing P-K-Ca-Zn-Cu and maybe B, but also sulfur and various types of sugars, are what's needed to greatly improve brix percentages. Calcium I know is hard to move through the plant unless steady perspiration, so it is likely the primary purpose to include it in a foliar, but zinc and copper are both enzyme activators and work with Mg to create sugars. This is a product from Switzerland called VegaLab Brix Boost. I compare this product to the contents in all of Doc Bud's bottles, especially the foliar sprays as well as other notes I've taken from a hydroponics book and web searching, I can kind of see what is being applied and sort of temporarily conclude why these products are prepared this way, with these ingredients at these concentrations of each ingredient. Mannitol I just learned is a sugary alcohol that is used also as a chelator, and since I often read about chelators, that kind of info slips right into my consciousness w/o too much resistance. I don't anticipate putting together a spray worthy of testing as I want to read a good bit more on this topic and directly related tangents, but I feel like I'm onto something here.

Regarding my search for more calcium, I am next going to try adding a half gram per gallon of crushed gypsum on top of my low calcium feed regimen. Gypsum is well soluble at that concentration, and if it doesn't take well to feed the plants, I believe I'll know in a week or two. The lack wouldn't cause a deficiency, but I believe I'm already riding that line as is, so if things stay the same, good, if they improve, I think I'll notice and be able to conclude.

 

[Skybound]

Now believing that these heavy metals (in trace concentrations of course) are needed to expedite photosynthesis, assimilation of sugars and CO2, I still find myself having reservations about applying heavy metals in the regions where buds will or currently are, forming bud sites. Even though the contents of foliar sprays are generally assumed to all permeate into the leaf tissue, I still have concerns with residual traces of metallic contents in bud tissue.

I clearly have much more to learn.

 

[ilikemsticky]

After more research, I'm forming the opinion that foliar sprays containing P-K-Ca-Zn-Cu and maybe B, but also sulfur and various types of sugars, are what's needed to greatly improve brix percentages. Calcium I know is hard to move through the plant unless steady perspiration, so it is likely the primary purpose to include it in a foliar, but zinc and copper are both enzyme activators and work with Mg to create sugars. This is a product from Switzerland called VegaLab Brix Boost. I compare this product to the contents in all of Doc Bud's bottles, especially the foliar sprays as well as other notes I've taken from a hydroponics book and web searching, I can kind of see what is being applied and sort of temporarily conclude why these products are prepared this way, with these ingredients at these concentrations of each ingredient. Mannitol I just learned is a sugary alcohol that is used also as a chelator, and since I often read about chelators, that kind of info slips right into my consciousness w/o too much resistance. I don't anticipate putting together a spray worthy of testing as I want to read a good bit more on this topic and directly related tangents, but I feel like I'm onto something here.

Regarding my search for more calcium, I am next going to try adding a half gram per gallon of crushed gypsum on top of my low calcium feed regimen. Gypsum is well soluble at that concentration, and if it doesn't take well to feed the plants, I believe I'll know in a week or two. The lack wouldn't cause a deficiency, but I believe I'm already riding that line as is, so if things stay the same, good, if they improve, I think I'll notice and be able to conclude.

that's interesting Im waiting for you to find that golden mix im sure your going to find it to me it looks like your on to something with the foliar im hoping you find it I would like to use some of that when you find it good luck bud!

 

[ilikemsticky]

Now believing that these heavy metals (in trace concentrations of course) are needed to expedite photosynthesis, assimilation of sugars and CO2, I still find myself having reservations about applying heavy metals in the regions where buds will or currently are, forming bud sites. Even though the contents of foliar sprays are generally assumed to all permeate into the leaf tissue, I still have concerns with residual traces of metallic contents in bud tissue.

I clearly have much more to learn.

just carefully spray the fans and other larger leaves!

 

[Pennywise]

Couldn't you wash off what doesn't get absorbed by the leaves?

 

[Skybound]

Thanks Sticky, but if I ever do make something worth using, to make it will require buying salts and a 0.00 scale, lol.

 

[Skybound]

Couldn't you wash off what doesn't get absorbed by the leaves?

I do wash my harvests, but whose to say what is washed off, and what is absorbed into the buds? I can't wash off what absorbed in. It's likely that I'm over thinking this because roots can pull these metals in and deposit them in the buds for all I know, lol.

 

[Pennywise]

Most of the micros are metal salts, the plant takes up what it needs.