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- #161
Hows & Whys Of Supercropping
- Thread starter InTheShed
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- #163
Is this post still active? If so, I am Jon and I am in process of my first scrog. I'd love to bounce it off you for feedback if you have the time to check it out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. You can see it in my journal or I can send pictures if that's preferable.
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- #165
Still active! If you want you can drop a link here to the post you'd like us to check out, or post your pics and questions here. Either one works!
THANK YOU! Ok, how about this, I'll give you the lowdown to where we're at right now. At 2 pm when they awaken I will take a picture and attach it to this post to show the exact state of affairs as currently as possible. Fair enough?
So here's the skinny:
- today is Day 88 of the Grow and Day 14 of stretch/flower
- this is my second grow overall, and my first attempt at a scrog
- i am wheelchair bound so some of what you will see was specifically chosen to accommodate my "leaning" needs to work plants, such as using 2x4's for the frame of my screen versus PVC which is obviously lighter and more moveable. My screen is 100% static. I lean on the edges to get to work the middle of the tent.
- the grow is four plants in five gallon pots that began in Dixie cups, went to one gallons, then to fives
- it is an all Humboldt Seed Company grow consisting of 2 Pineapple Upside Down Cake, 1 Jelly Rancher, and 1 Blueberry Muffin
- these strains were selected after direct conversation with the folks at HSC. I asked for strains that would be good together in a scrog, based on having similar growth patterns, similar stretch characteristics, and the same flowering time. They suggested these three strains, I decided to go with all three and make it as challenging as possible.
- soil is identical for all, 40% FF Happy Frog, 40% FF Ocean Forest, 20% Mother Earth perlite #3. All nutes are identical, and began with the FF trio, switched for the rest of veg to Botanicare Pro Grow Veg, and switched back to FF trio plus molasses now for budding. I have also been giving them CalMag plus Iron consistently.
- I have decided to do the under canopy defoliation in three steps separated by four or five days each rather than clear out the whole underside at once, based on my idea that this will spread out the shock to the plant. That's a lot of stuff down there to take all at once. What you see is after 1/3 of the job has been done. Mostly the first defol session was taking actual little branches that had no hope of ever making the screen.
- they have had an extremely consistent environment as I have very good controls for that regard. Right now they live at around 74-78 degrees by day and 66-70 degrees overnight. The humidity is 44-55%. Their Ph levels I maintain at between 6.7 and 6.9, with 6.8 as the target. Sometimes I have been hitting exactly 6.8. They have supreme air flow with no wind burn type situation at all and everyone appears happy to my eyes.
That is pretty much the deal in as short a package as I can give you. As I said, I'll attach pics at 2 pm as soon as they awaken.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP, IT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.
I here the 3 strains from HSC are very good Blueberry Muffin great taste> depending on your space doing LST might be easier for you and the plants if properly spaced is 2.5 feet per plant and with that spacing might you able to get wheel chair around each plant ? just a thought. Your plan is great and have seemed to cover all area's . I use the soil you mentioned myself - great stuff, The only thing you are missing is a very good root stimulator like Great White, King Crab, Orca, Myco are a few samples if you want an soi incoluant get Dyno Myco ( increases plant size by 35-40% meaninh bigger plant bigger yields, There are also som additional products that increase terpens and essential oils : Terpinator, Purpinator, Soil Balance and Massive Bloom. Remember after each grow we learn something new !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Increase bud size - use of Big Bud (advanced Nutrients, organic)
I used Great White with each transplant and also as a dry soil dressing twice during veg. My root balls are big and solid. I'll include a pic of the one from an auto I just harvested from another tent. I use Emilya's watering method and get amazing results.
Here's the pictures of my scrog on day 88/stretch-flower day 14 as promised earlier. This is right now as they just woke up. Any feedback you guys may have is greatly hoped for and appreciated.
when you top dress you do it after you water - for many years did it backwards
Thank you very much. I also did it backwards. Hopefully that means it got absorbed well on the next watering. Here's what it's been doing for me. This is a 3 gallon autoflower rootball I just harvested a few nights ago.
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- #172
Thanks Jon! Not sure what supercropping question you have since scogging is more low stress training than snapping and bending, but I'd say everything looks great so far.
Anyone interested in following Jon's grow should check out his journal here! That way we can get back to the hows and whys of supercropping.
Well, what it had to do with the scrog was I was wondering if it would be necessary to consider supercropping a runaway cola or two in order to keep the buds at the same height. A fairly common thing people ask about scrogs as it relates to supercropping. I thought that was pretty obvious but apparently not. Thanks.Thanks Jon! Not sure what supercropping question you have since scogging is more low stress training than snapping and bending, but I'd say everything looks great so far.
Anyone interested in following Jon's grow should check out his journal here! That way we can get back to the hows and whys of supercropping.
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- #174
Sorry, I didn't get that at all from your posts!
Supercropping to keep runaways out of the lights and the canopy flat is a technique used whether in a scrog or not, so that's definitely a thing. I just didn't see a question in your posts other than looking for feedback about your scrog, which looks great.
Nothing personal, but I don't want this thread to turn into a conversation about your varieties, thinning methods, environmental controls, top-dressing technique, or how big your rootballs get. Getting off topic in a tutorial thread makes it difficult for others to find the information they come here for.
Nothing personal taken. I was just looking for an answer to a question. Not here to promote myself or my own journal stuff. The root thing was a logical response to a discussion in the thread, that's all. Sorry. Not trying to hijack anything,
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- #176
Hey all! For those who may have missed the opening post here, my supercrops are all about increasing the number of tops a plant will produce. And since I did a bit of supercropping on Sunday and thought I'd show you how it looks three days later.
When I thinned the Tin Can Kush late Sunday, I was left with a couple of gaps on the side of the plant where there were no longer any branches. Well...empty space is wasted space, so I bent two of the central branches out into those gaps without making the plant any wider. And what did I gain by making those two bends?
A bunch of new tops!:
Eight of them by my count.
When I thinned the Tin Can Kush late Sunday, I was left with a couple of gaps on the side of the plant where there were no longer any branches. Well...empty space is wasted space, so I bent two of the central branches out into those gaps without making the plant any wider. And what did I gain by making those two bends?
A bunch of new tops!:
Eight of them by my count.
I have three actual supercropping questions for you (lol, private joke, right?) -Hey all! For those who may have missed the opening post here, my supercrops are all about increasing the number of tops a plant will produce. And since I did a bit of supercropping on Sunday and thought I'd show you how it looks three days later.
When I thinned the Tin Can Kush late Sunday, I was left with a couple of gaps on the side of the plant where there were no longer any branches. Well...empty space is wasted space, so I bent two of the central branches out into those gaps without making the plant any wider. And what did I gain by making those two bends?
A bunch of new tops!:
Eight of them by my count.
1. Could you have accomplished the same thing you are displaying in these pics just by bending the branch the same way without "breaking" the outer wall? Or is it that exact act (the "breaking") that makes the plant create the extra tops?
2. Other than to control runaways, I'm getting the impression that the magic you are trying to convey with this thread is that supercropping is best accomplished during veg/stretch, while you're trying to fill your screen (or your space if you don't have a screen). That's the point, right?
3. If that is true, that would seem to imply that it is better to place your screen lower. I had mine pretty high this time and I found that even though I filled many of the holes, I didn't have anything that grew so much taller than the screen that supercropping it would have accomplished anything. If I had set the screen way lower, like a foot lower, I'd have had all that growth through the screen already. It's kind of the difference between filling the screen bottom up or filling it top down, and I'm getting the impression it is better to do it top down. Is this indeed the case?
Do those qualify?
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- #178
They sure do!
Breaking the outer wall is a hazard of supercropping rather than the intent. Breaking the inner wall is the intent. Bending without breaking would be LST (low stress training), and would involve making the plant much wider than it already is, as bending takes up more room than breaking. I gave up LST because of how wide my plants grew. Perfect for a scrog though.
With an open plant (no net or outside), it also requires a place to tie the furthest-most point of the branch down to something to make it stay lower than the rest of the branch. Or to be under a scrog. Most of what happens under the scrog net would be considered LST.
Both would create extra tops (see this pic for an example), but supercropping takes up less room and doesn't require anything to keep it in place.
No magic, just working with plant growth science. Supercropping during post-stretch flower doesn't create new tops as the plant is putting its energy into budding. Done early enough in flower, it can create a larger cola on the end of the supercropped branch though due to the increased nutrient pathways created by the knuckle.
The idea of a scrog is that you have filled it (like a vine) before you flip, so there would be no growth above the net until stretch. A really low scrog is very difficult to work under (particularly if you have mobility issues), so I wouldn't recommend it. You need to be able to get under the net to feed all the branches to the outer edges of the net, as well as to clear out the undergrowth after stretch.
But if you have a slow growing or squat plant, the net would be lower for the reasons you mention. That said, the net doesn't need to go down until the plant has gotten large enough to need places to support all the outer growth, which gives you time to evaluate how the plant is performing.
The bigger the scrog, the longer the veg to fill the holes with tops.
Hope this helps!
It definitely does and thanks very much!! So would it be accurate that there is ideally some sort of "balance point between scrog screen placement, regular LST, AND supercropping? If so, what would that look like? (That may be a more involved question/answer than I know I'm asking)....
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- #180
I'm trying to come up with a reason to supercrop below the net and I can't think of one. Assuming the net has been filled during veg, then standard supercropping rules would apply during/after stretch.
I believe that setting up a scrog is really a combination of topping and LST.
By the way, other than a few empty holes, your first time scrog looks terrific!
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