Lets Talk Coco! Organics & Salts

[elious]

I like where your head's at hiker. I'm the same way. I lean more on the side of dry trying to make sure that the roots are getting as much oxygen as they can. The plants also seem to respond well to the dry and wet times. But to each their own, I'm just learning about coco abduction I found this interesting that you feed/water every week or so.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

i water every day for the most part yes i do skip a day every few days, but heres the thing about coco it physically holds more air and water than any other medium that i know of,by watering everyday im putting MORE DISOLVED OXYGEN in the medium than watering less often, see the plants use the o2 pretty quickly,then theres less o2, by adding water its pulling more o2 down into the coco, i also keep a couple buckets bubbleing 24/7 , one is usually nutes&mykos, the other anything from plain water to humate tea, i rarely put plain h2o in my plants, if im using reg salt ferts i always ph everything to 5.8, so contrary to the "soil mindset" watering daily in coco keeps MORE o2 in the rootzone, it is more or less impossible to overwater using coco as long as the container is well drained, i have actually tried to drown a plant by overwatering, the result was that plant grew faster than all the others!!! (enough proof for me)
i read extensively on this and im not the first to discover this charateristic of coco.
and the other reason for this practise is when coco dries out the suspended nutrients in the water dry out and begin to crystalize this can cause the ph to rise or fall sharply, this can be very bad obviously, and with organic nutrients it can cause massive microbe die off locking nutes out completely untill the microherd is re-established, because coco "looks" so similar to soil we are easily fooled into treating it like soil, i assure you its behavior and subsequent treatment are very different, its hydro for all intensive purposes, so just like its a bad idea to let your res get to low and nute levels rise to the point the ph goes wonky and plants get nute burn, the coco is the res and the medium at the same time, , in any form of hydro the more disolved o2 in the solution the better the same concept directly applies to coco, well guys i hope that clears it up as to why i water most everyday,
bear in mind when i grow in soil i dont apply this technique, i let them dry out real good, several times during the cycles,kinda like they talk about in the green house seed co vids.

 

[elious]

Very well written man. That was easy to follow and well explained. It made total sense also. As I read I started thinking that using my air pumps to saturate the water with oxygen, then you said you did that... It makes perfect sense. So ph becomes important where as with soil its not as crucial considering that the soil has its own ph level and ultimately it will adjust whatever you out in there. Buffering they call it.
The concentration of the nutrients makes sense as well, as it dries, the potency of the nutrients goes up.
I'm learning a lot from this thread Irish, I'm getting more and more confident that I can pull it off.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

Very well written man. That was easy to follow and well explained. It made total sense also. As I read I started thinking that using my air pumps to saturate the water with oxygen, then you said you did that... It makes perfect sense. So ph becomes important where as with soil its not as crucial considering that the soil has its own ph level and ultimately it will adjust whatever you out in there. Buffering they call it.
The concentration of the nutrients makes sense as well, as it dries, the potency of the nutrients goes up.
I'm learning a lot from this thread Irish, I'm getting more and more confident that I can pull it off.

thank you for the kind words, really its just a passive hydro, the chemistry of it is the same, coco really is a great way to go, once you understand its methodology it gets real easy and very rewarding, (i have to use oxygen sometimes,well i also discovered it will supr saturate o2 in anything fast i have made myko teas in 6 hours that have 6 inches of foam) i find soil much harder to perfect, , coco is more forgiving than say dwc or aero, and the kicker for me is i can do full on organics too, my next experiment is to see if high brix can be done in coco, im working on it as we speak,
another thing is i have been doing coco since my 1st journal, you can see my humble fumbling beginnings with it the link is in my siggy, i started with 2 liter coco hempy's thats over 2 yes ago in my tiny closet and cfl's and fox farm nutes, i have had tragedy and triumph along the way, and this community and threads like this one made me the grower i am today, same dufus bound to have many more ups & downs, this is the place where you can learn it all,
ok im off to crash goodnight 420 fam

 

[Propa Gator]

my next experiment is to see if high brix can be done in coco
have actually tried to drown a plant by overwatering, the result was that plant grew faster than all the others!!!
Yes folks, looks like we'll have another winner
I often dream of a constant drip through an emitter to each pot driven by a tiny aquarium pump from a res, and the overflow routed back to it. One problem is you can't shift the pots around so easy. And you have to change the res occasionally, along with daily top-up and meter reading. Then again, each pot are the main res', and the big secondary might let you go on a vacation. With a constant meter linked to your phone through the internet, take 2 weeks and have a ball. Or a strategically placed private web cam? I don't know how to do any of that stuff. Daily(or nearly) watering works

 

[Mr Messy]

i water every day for the most part yes i do skip a day every few days, but heres the thing about coco it physically holds more air and water than any other medium that i know of,by watering everyday im putting MORE DISOLVED OXYGEN in the medium than watering less often, see the plants use the o2 pretty quickly,then theres less o2, by adding water its pulling more o2 down into the coco, i also keep a couple buckets bubbleing 24/7 , one is usually nutes&mykos, the other anything from plain water to humate tea, i rarely put plain h2o in my plants, if im using reg salt ferts i always ph everything to 5.8, so contrary to the "soil mindset" watering daily in coco keeps MORE o2 in the rootzone, it is more or less impossible to overwater using coco as long as the container is well drained, i have actually tried to drown a plant by overwatering, the result was that plant grew faster than all the others!!! (enough proof for me)
i read extensively on this and im not the first to discover this charateristic of coco.
and the other reason for this practise is when coco dries out the suspended nutrients in the water dry out and begin to crystalize this can cause the ph to rise or fall sharply, this can be very bad obviously, and with organic nutrients it can cause massive microbe die off locking nutes out completely untill the microherd is re-established, because coco "looks" so similar to soil we are easily fooled into treating it like soil, i assure you its behavior and subsequent treatment are very different, its hydro for all intensive purposes, so just like its a bad idea to let your res get to low and nute levels rise to the point the ph goes wonky and plants get nute burn, the coco is the res and the medium at the same time, , in any form of hydro the more disolved o2 in the solution the better the same concept directly applies to coco, well guys i hope that clears it up as to why i water most everyday,
bear in mind when i grow in soil i dont apply this technique, i let them dry out real good, several times during the cycles,kinda like they talk about in the green house seed co vids.

Well said!

 

[Mr Messy]

Gator;1749826] my next experiment is to see if high brix can be done in coco
have actually tried to drown a plant by overwatering, the result was that plant grew faster than all the others!!!
Yes folks, looks like we'll have another winner
I often dream of a constant drip through an emitter to each pot driven by a tiny aquarium pump from a res, and the overflow routed back to it. One problem is you can't shift the pots around so easy. And you have to change the res occasionally, along with daily top-up and meter reading. Then again, each pot are the main res', and the big secondary might let you go on a vacation. With a constant meter linked to your phone through the internet, take 2 weeks and have a ball. Or a strategically placed private web cam? I don't know how to do any of that stuff. Daily(or nearly) watering works [/QUOTE]

Hi Propagator, the Blumat dripper system sound like it might help your situation mate.
Take a quick look at my gallery. There's a pik there

[QUOTE=Propa

 

[Propa Gator]

A simple custom string of emitters is super cheap, just a dozen ft of half inch plastic tube and one or two 15 cent emitters for each pot. No need for a manifold or fancy anything. Couple dollars for that stuff and a $30 pump. Having enough money is not the issue, despite my normal policy of using stuff that is the cheapest available. or because of it? I also insist that the stuff and style I use also works better than any other way IMO. My problem is actually that I am butt lazy. I get out of my chair to make a cup of tea, or to pee. I'll pour some water on dry looking coco and pat my back for doing good. One talent of mine that improves with age is my excuse making for doing nothing. My cat knows me well, and hollers at me just to be polite. His noise can annoy me, but I'm unlikely to feed him until he makes my leg bleed with his claws. I don't stay mad at him, but I do get out of my chair to holler at him. Then feed him. He hasn't said "thank you" yet. My buddy.

 

[Crzywhte69]

Thanks alot for all thegreat info. Ive been practicing the theory of try different things during veg see what distance they like it. Ive been moving my plants instead of light. The plants were all withing 6 inches until recently with the summer coming its a little hot. I run a 600 mh right now and 3 cfls for my clone bubbler. Yesterday was my first attempt at cloning! It was definitly a funexperience. Thanks again for all the info..... Make a newbie like me feel good when everyone takes so much time to answer my questions. Amazing in depth answers. Again thx
Clones!

 

[elious]

A simple custom string of emitters is super cheap, just a dozen ft of half inch plastic tube and one or two 15 cent emitters for each pot. No need for a manifold or fancy anything. Couple dollars for that stuff and a $30 pump. Having enough money is not the issue, despite my normal policy of using stuff that is the cheapest available. or because of it? I also insist that the stuff and style I use also works better than any other way IMO. My problem is actually that I am butt lazy. I get out of my chair to make a cup of tea, or to pee. I'll pour some water on dry looking coco and pat my back for doing good. One talent of mine that improves with age is my excuse making for doing nothing. My cat knows me well, and hollers at me just to be polite. His noise can annoy me, but I'm unlikely to feed him until he makes my leg bleed with his claws. I don't stay mad at him, but I do get out of my chair to holler at him. Then feed him. He hasn't said "thank you" yet. My buddy.

That is some awesome stuff right there man!

 

[Mr Messy]

A simple custom string of emitters is super cheap, just a dozen ft of half inch plastic tube and one or two 15 cent emitters for each pot. No need for a manifold or fancy anything. Couple dollars for that stuff and a $30 pump. Having enough money is not the issue, despite my normal policy of using stuff that is the cheapest available. or because of it? I also insist that the stuff and style I use also works better than any other way IMO. My problem is actually that I am butt lazy. I get out of my chair to make a cup of tea, or to pee. I'll pour some water on dry looking coco and pat my back for doing good. One talent of mine that improves with age is my excuse making for doing nothing. My cat knows me well, and hollers at me just to be polite. His noise can annoy me, but I'm unlikely to feed him until he makes my leg bleed with his claws. I don't stay mad at him, but I do get out of my chair to holler at him. Then feed him. He hasn't said "thank you" yet. My buddy.

lol, AMEN,

Nice!

 

[Crzywhte69]

A simple custom string of emitters is super cheap, just a dozen ft of half inch plastic tube and one or two 15 cent emitters for each pot. No need for a manifold or fancy anything. Couple dollars for that stuff and a $30 pump. Having enough money is not the issue, despite my normal policy of using stuff that is the cheapest available. or because of it? I also insist that the stuff and style I use also works better than any other way IMO. My problem is actually that I am butt lazy. I get out of my chair to make a cup of tea, or to pee. I'll pour some water on dry looking coco and pat my back for doing good. One talent of mine that improves with age is my excuse making for doing nothing. My cat knows me well, and hollers at me just to be polite. His noise can annoy me, but I'm unlikely to feed him until he makes my leg bleed with his claws. I don't stay mad at him, but I do get out of my chair to holler at him. Then feed him. He hasn't said "thank you" yet. My buddy.

Thats fucking awesome!

 

[Propa Gator]

Hey Crazy, been having fun? Here's something to try for a lesson to learn: cut off a branch about 3 or 4 inches long. Snip it with scissors straight across and lay it down on your workbench dry for a few minutes, enough time for it to wilt a bit. Then put it into a partial glass of water, and don't spray it. If it doesn't perk up in half hour, you're not out much but... if it perks up turgid, there are lessons to be learned. Water with or without nutrients is pulled up the stem for the plant's need. More than several growers foliar feed, but not all. Some people insist that humans can eat with an enema, but I'd rather eat with my mouth. Plants are backwards, but they're happy when they naturally eat with their roots, and avoid wet leaves. No roots? no biggie, roots don't have pumps anyway: leaf need pulls water up the capillary tubes as a driving mechanism. In nature, rain is a necessary evil that plants endure because they can. For cultured plants, wet leaves can bring problems that are not necessary nor desirable. I never spray water on my plants or cuttings. Ever, unless spider mites have arrived and chemical warfare is on.
BTW, an angle cut with a super sharp razor works well, and so does a straight cut with utility scissors like I do. Like I said if your results don't match my experience, you've lost little. Cuttings are cheap, and my ego should be bruised if I'm talking shit. If your cutting keeps on wilting in standing water, rosin your hands and bring a bat to the board here and swing for my knees.

I "clone", or propagate by sticking cuttings into a hole poked in wet coco coir, with a couple drops of diluted K-L-N. I believe that gel temporarily clogs open capillaries before hydration can continue. Yup, salesmen do have a tough time selling me anything, and that's not just because I'm a cheap old man. Like my PIA grand nephew, I want to know 'why'! Neither of us are impressed by hot augmented babe pictures instead of rational reason. He'll change, and I hope he survives his natural period in life of suseptability.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

interesting gator my fellow cynic, this new thing im starting "high brix" relies on very specific misting of the leaves, certain potions at very specific times, high octane is understatment, yesterday i misted lightly a very dilute concotion i mixed up and i did it wrong but two droopy plants raised up and began reaching for the light within an hour! ive never seen plants react to anything short of a weed whacker so strongly it was as if i had givin them a shot of adrenaline right in the heart, i will post pics of before and aft in my journal, i would not have believed it if it was right before my eyes, i dont know whats in that stuff but plants can dance! one thing can be used only once lightly the entire grow,twice and the plant is ruined...and its plant science from 50+ yrs ago, minerals,microbes,plant based horomones, but seems like some future science fiction... my goal make it work in coco..

 

[Propa Gator]

Cynic, moi? 40 years ago I drove out your way and passed through Missouri, caught a case of 'show me'. Still got it, but you do show. You're in steady production BID, and are about the best I could ask to demonstrate efficacy of this method. The good, the bad, and the ugly I want to see. If it's nothing but pretty, I'll want to copy. What I thought I read was that brix was all about vegetation, but that might work if it is. Elsewhere, I read that the good health benies from weed are in the leaf, without twisting my head.

I've been on a health kick, trying to beat medical science's expected bad results from their patent medicines. I now think that stuff like cancer and heart disease are indeed symptoms of industrial disease, and the only cure is stress reduction and whole foods with no poison meat. Avoid anything Monsanto has touched, and take no toxic advice from Big Pharma's street salesmen, AMA doctors. They can do me anyway they want, after I'm dead. Yep, I'm dead serious about this and my life is on the line, I'm 'all in'.

Thx for running 'high brix' in coco, bid. Two points: I'll spend more time in your journal, and I'll get over my attitude about the spray bottle. Before your time, Ralph Kramden apologized to the Gods above, for his BIG MOUTH. He was a bigger man than I, but I can change direction for reason.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

cynic you? certain i am, but i am as well,your also intelligent well spoken,talented, and a few more kissy butt things i'll spare you enduring, i believe coco can do high brix same as i proved it can do organics, im certain it will take much tweaking and amending, but my plan is to apply high brix principals to a happy organic coco grow, high mineral density foods are going to have to become a human prority if we are to survive the industrial disease, i agree with you on all counts, we live away from cities and pollution as much as possible anyway but as long as we are surrounded by modern materials and products we are exposed to the off gassing of toxic chemicals, good old radon gas, ,yes juicing whole vegatative cannabis is wonderful my mother is feeling great these days i give her all my good veg trim she drinks cannasmoothies w/greek yogurt & fresh blueberries from our bushes,shes 70 and sharp as a razor, healthy save for the copd,50yrs of smoking will do that, im imagining high brix cannasmoothies

 

[4YBAK]

Hello everyone! Just appeared few days ago, the edges of leaves start to dry out. My thoughts it's due to mag/cal deficiency, any thoughts? Watering everyday with 200-300 ml of nutes, feeding with GH NOVA, initially the coco was soaked with 25% of nutes + cal/mag, and now I have unstable PH level, so I poured 5.7 and got 6.05, after pouring with plentiful amount of nutes with ph'd 5.7 I got 5.95...

Thx in advance!

 

[BigIrishDoode]

did you add any garden lime or anything to the coco? did you rinse the coco? what brand coco? seems kinda high on the food for such a young plant is it tap water or ro? the runoff will rarely be exactly the same ph as going in, and its not to far off that would not make me blink ordinarily, it looks like nute or salt burn to me, can you test the ppm of the runoff? is it higher than whats going in? i would flush with no nutes plain tap water till the ppm is within 10 ppm or better of the tap water, what are temps like?

 

[4YBAK]

Thx for replying! Initially I flushed the coco block (named cocoland) with RO water, I was able to flush the media up to 3-4 ppm!!! I think great result, my tap water ~45ppm. First of all, I started feeding according to GH shd its 1st week 100-200ppm (1ml/gl), now its 2nd week (2.5ml/gl) ~350-400 ppm, runoff absolutely the same level sometimes a bit lower on 10 or 20 ppm, its quite decent. Yesterday I flushed with plain RO water (3 litres) up to 80ppm, and then poured (2 litres) with nutes (350ppm) ... runoff 370 ppm. PH in 5.7 -> 5.95.
Yes I added cal/mag to charge the coco before plant with nitrate cal and nitrate mag...it was ~200ppm of solution cal/mag and 200 ppm of nutes. Temps are 27-28C(80-82F), (~73F at night), using LED 450watt. Humidity ~45-55%.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

well it all sounds pretty decent, so what i would do is give it a half recomended dose 100-150 ppm dose with some added calmag , and foliar feed some mild seaweed, some mykos would be good, i rarely give any actual nutes till they have 4 full sets of leaves not counting the first 2 roundies, what i like to do is get some benifical microbes going and feed with something mild and organic like seaweed extract, i have always had problems starting babies out on chemical nutes, buts thats me, i lean towards the gentleness of organics always, and both those things will set your babies up to better recieve the hard stuff a little later,and work with chem ferts, it could be the ph down burning them ,had that happen too, you can try lemon juice, that worked for me in the past,hope this helps