New Mega Crop nothing like old?

[multiVortex]

True Plant Science also has a one-bottle formula, TPS One.

I did the math on it and it comes out to about 13¢/gallon average. For my 50gal setup it would be about $104/grow, which is on par a little less than running GH Trio (if you also add in kool bloom, floralicious+, and diamond nectar.) Without the extras, it's about $10/run more than just the 3-parts of Trio.

(They also have a 4-part (+/-) line that's about 11¢/gallon average, and just a couple bucks under what just the GH Trio base parts are. I picked up a sample to give them a shot. Their calmag and silica are top notch, so figured I'd see what's what.)

 

[Weaselcracker]

Wow I guess I should have skimmed the MC thread more closely. This is the first I heard I heard of people having problems with the stuff. I only saw rave reviews and thought It was nothing but easy street for everyone except me. Seems like by mid flower I’m seeing deficiencies and can’t seem to make the plants happy. Some strains do better than others. I wonder how much the new new version will change things.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Are you only using the one thing?

 

[multiVortex]

Wow I guess I should have skimmed the MC thread more closely. This is the first I heard I heard of people having problems with the stuff. I only saw rave reviews and thought It was nothing but easy street for everyone except me. Seems like by mid flower I’m seeing deficiencies and can’t seem to make the plants happy. Some strains do better than others. I wonder how much the new new version will change things.

It works under the right conditions, certainly.

I think you will find a lot of folks, me included, thinking they had calmag issues and looking at it from that perspective. However, looking past that and digging deeper you find the root of the issue.

I've also seen plenty of good runs with it too. However, those tend to be tap water runs as best as I can recall.

Whether or not the latest formula has resolved this or not, I'm not sure. I honestly haven't paid attention to it since last spring. I have a bag of it, and did use it one week on some early veg stuff. More to see how it mixed up than anything.

On that front, they've done well to get rid of the little balls. And it's also not near as brown as it was. Still a tick in there, but the end feed water is much less stained than it would be under previous formulas.

Now if we can just find out why most of us end up with mid-flower issues from it, we all might be able to save a little cash.


Next closest I could find in price would be Jacks. If I buy in bulk (and it doesn't take much to get to that level, just sayin) I can get it down to about $35-$40/grow. Anything else starts up near $100/grow for me, and gets to $200+ pretty quick.

I've been tinkering over the summer, trying different stuff just because of this MC issue.

Went back to GH Trio initially, just because I had it on hand already, have a pretty dialed in feed chart, and know the results to expect.

I mentioned above that last week I received enough of the TPS Component series for a single run. It was a little more expensive for just a single run, but only because of buying in bulk and whatnot. If I like the results, I'll give it a second run and see. If not, then I'm not accumulating more nutes to collect dust.

I still have 99.8% of a new bag of MC. Worst case is I'll use it outside next year for the veggies.

 

[Justin Goody]

The issues MC causes are pretty minor when you factor in the cost. I've had some of the mid flower problems and I just back it off a tiny bit and they seem to go away. Also the plants seem to finish just fine even with the discolored leaves.
When it's all said and done, the MC costs something ridiculous- like $.05 per finished gram (in soil)
I bought a $75 bag of it and have used maybe 10% and have produced several pounds already this year.

When I used the FF trio not only was it expensive, but it's touchy. It also doesn't go at the same rate so I ended up buying grow 2 times before I had to buy more bloom, 3 times before the micro. The instructions that come with it might as well be thrown straight into the trash, as they would kill most plants. there's no way in hell it's even remotely close to as easy or cheap as MC.
With MC, you CAN go by the instructions (4,5,6g). And if it's too rich or too weak, the plant will respond within 1 feeding if you change it up.
This whole website is FULL of MC success stories. There are very few failures, and very few problems (compared to any other line, it's almost 0) but haters are always going to say there's a better way if you spend more $.
I can tell you this much- I've been growing since 1992. I've tried almost everything, and every method of growing.
Now that I can afford whatever grow system I want and whatever nutes I want, I really just want it simple.
I use a cheap light ($79), tap water and MegaCrop. I'm about as lazy as a decent grower can be. This has been the best year of growing I have ever had (for weight and for avoiding issues) all because I switched to a food that lets you relax a little while it does the hard work. Ok I only average 6.5 oz dry per indoor plant, and maybe I could get 7-8 oz if I spent another $100 per month and several more hours worrying. Or not.
Yes, some people can kill anything. It's not usually the fault of the nutes, but rather the human error.
Treat your plants right, and they will grow in a solo cup full of dirt. Treat them wrong and no amount of money or nutes or equipment will fix them.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks for the reply Multivortex that’s a big help.

Yes TS I’ve just been using the one thing. It’s been a busy summer, and even at the best of times my growing style tends towards throwing food and water to the plants and letting them sort out their issues. Worked well with the systems I’d developed in the past years. With MC not so much but I have limped along for a few months hoping that it would work itself out.

I read over and over again on the forum that MC is a stand alone fertilizer and there’s no need to supplement anything else, and amost everyone seemed to be very happy that way. Yes I saw a couple people adding silica and calmag- but most saying it’s unnecessary.

Since I seemed to be the only one having issues with the stuff, I kept flogging the same horse hoping for a change. I have more recently started messing around with the feeding. I’ve added ground oyster shell to some of the pots, calmag to some feedings. It does mostly look like calcium issues to me. Now that I know I’m not alone, I’ll get a bit more serious about it and run the numbers through Hydro Buddy again, and see what I can tweak. I’ve got lots of soluble nutrients in elemental form. Which by the way is even a cheaper solution than mega crop, but does require more head scratching.

The plants mostly look ok till mid flowering, though I am seeing white spots which I assume to be calcium def, even in veg. But there is hope, even if I have to go back to a more complex mix for later flowering.

 

[Virgin Ground]

The plants mostly look ok till mid flowering, though I am seeing white spots which I assume to be calcium def, even in veg. But there is hope, even if I have to go back to a more complex mix for later flowering

Same here. White spots and cal def in veg.
I have the all gray no balls version. Had the brown with balls (ver 2.?) before this and it worked really great.
My tap is 197 ppm.

 

[Weaselcracker]

It’s disconcerting- those little white spots. Has caused me to scan for spider mites over and over even though I know I have none. It’s bringing up the spider mite PTSD all over again. I’ve recently started adding calmag in veg. The botanicare calmag has a wide range of micronutrients as well so hopefully any missing elements will get supplied.
I will definitely have to run the mega crop info through the Hydro Buddy program again and crunch the numbers to try to see what’s out of balance.

 

[MrSauga]

More often than not grower's in Promix have issues. The MC has a high content of Nitrate N, and if you do a slurry test on the substrate you'll most likely find it's running a high pH. The way to fix this is add some ferts, 20-10-20 that has a higher ammoniacal N and lower nitrate level. This will bring the substrate back down to the correct range.
Overfeeding is another common mistake, and the plant locks out nutrients from the excess of other elements.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks. I’ve been wondering about that too. I used Sunshine Mix for the last 10 years and now the stores here stopped selling it and have Promix instead, which I had never seen locally before. Now I don’t know what the differences are between Promix and Sunshine mix, I know they’re almost identical but I haven’t taken the time to read the fine print.

Seems like the MC plants did better in sunshine mix- still late flowering issues but at least I wasn’t seeing the white spots in veg.
Hydro buddy should be able to give me a sense of where the levels are at and I can add elements accordingly. If I keep getting issues I’m just going to stop using the stuff and switch back to other nutrients, as my plants have been very subpar ever since I switched to Mega Crop.

 

[MrSauga]

still late flowering issues but at least I wasn’t seeing the white spots in veg.

If you are encountering issues during mid flower then it's most likely from overfeeding prior to reaching that stage. I made a post here on basic plant requirements.
When you look at the numbers that a plant needs and then compare that by using the elemental calculator on the GLN website you can hone in the max amounts.
The post talks about PPM levels for plants, and as an example cannabis likes around 200 PPM of K. Looking at the below image, and using 5g of MC /gal, you can see we hit that value already. Anything more than that and you MAY encounter issues. It's not just the K increasing as you know, but the Ca and Mg levels too which create all kinds of issues when in excess.

Hope that helps a bit in understanding how to determine the correct amount of MC to use.

 

[The Phantom]

I think the issue is the medium using dolomite lime over "regular" calitc limestone or ag lime. Dolomite lime has way too much magnesium, which what happens to calcium when magnesium is in excess? Lockout.

Straight from the Plant Solver.
Excessive levels of magnesium in your plants will exhibit a buildup of toxic salts that will kill the leaves and lock out other nutrients like Calcium (Ca).

 

[MrSauga]

I think the issue is the medium using dolomite lime over "regular" calitc limestone or ag lime. Dolomite lime has way too much magnesium, which what happens to calcium when magnesium is in excess? Lockout.

Straight from the Plant Solver.
Excessive levels of magnesium in your plants will exhibit a buildup of toxic salts that will kill the leaves and lock out other nutrients like Calcium (Ca).

I think you'll find most of us tend to use the Mulder Chart. You'll see below that excessive Mg does not affect the uptake of Ca, rather the other way around.

The only elements Mg interacts with is P and K when in excess.

 

[multiVortex]

Also the plants seem to finish just fine even with the discolored leaves.

But do they? Getting to the finish line, and getting to the finish line first are completely different things.

How much was lost because of the torched leaves?

I know I'm after what works best for the plants for me, which means if it costs a little more then so be it.


However, the question is why is it causing this for so many? I do think we're finding out that a typical top end is around 5g/gal, but honestly there have been grows that ended up going as high as 6.5g or 7g.

Sure, it's about reading your plants. But if the dinner buffet is lacking in either a correct ratio, type of ingredient, or even lacking all together, then you can't do anything about it with this as it stands to whack out other things.

I would be absolutely thrilled if I, or anyone, could figure out what little something is causing this and correct it. Unfortunately I don't have the capacity available to run even a single plant on it to figure it all out. I'd love to have it, but I'm already nudging up against my plant count, and "technically" straight by the books, I've been over for a couple days here and there. (I doubt they would fuss over a couple of days difference, but not the point.)

Now before long, I should be doubling, hopefully tripling my allowed count. If so, then it's possible I could set up a basic test box and run a single plant for trial purposes. Until then, I'm crossing my fingers that someone tracks down or stumbles across a solution. This isn't "hating", this is just how it is. The product performs, or it doesn't. If there are caveats, fine.

Overfeeding is another common mistake, and the plant locks out nutrients from the excess of other elements.

Lockouts seem to easily be confused with deficiencies many times. I think you're onto a good path with the N issue, and getting that kink worked out.

 

[The Phantom]

The stickied plant and pest solver here should be updated to reflect that and most of what I've found on magnesium excess, just so more people aren't saying what I just said.

I still stand by dolomite lime being bad for our type of gardening because of the high amount of magnesium it contains. Normally you want something close to a 1:2 ratio of magnesium to calcium but dolomite has a 2:1 ratio, too much magnesium cations interfering with the calcium cations causing it to lockout.

 

[Justin Goody]

But do they? Getting to the finish line, and getting to the finish line first are completely different things.

How much was lost because of the torched leaves?

I know I'm after what works best for the plants for me, which means if it costs a little more then so be it.


However, the question is why is it causing this for so many? I do think we're finding out that a typical top end is around 5g/gal, but honestly there have been grows that ended up going as high as 6.5g or 7g.

Sure, it's about reading your plants. But if the dinner buffet is lacking in either a correct ratio, type of ingredient, or even lacking all together, then you can't do anything about it with this as it stands to whack out other things.

I would be absolutely thrilled if I, or anyone, could figure out what little something is causing this and correct it. Unfortunately I don't have the capacity available to run even a single plant on it to figure it all out. I'd love to have it, but I'm already nudging up against my plant count, and "technically" straight by the books, I've been over for a couple days here and there. (I doubt they would fuss over a couple of days difference, but not the point.)

Now before long, I should be doubling, hopefully tripling my allowed count. If so, then it's possible I could set up a basic test box and run a single plant for trial purposes. Until then, I'm crossing my fingers that someone tracks down or stumbles across a solution. This isn't "hating", this is just how it is. The product performs, or it doesn't. If there are caveats, fine.

I agree to each his own, and once you find something that works for you it's great.
I'm not in any sort of race to get the plants finished, but it is a bit like a race car with autos- and sometimes they cross that finish line with bumps and scratches because they were getting there quickly. I'm on their clock, so I bend to their rules a bit.
I'm finding that with different varieties come drastically different MC needs. The Purple Lemonade Auto I have growing is living on 1g per G of MC, and it's just shown me the fastest growth I've ever seen on an indoor plant (at 20/4) and normally I'd be at 5g/G getting ready to go to 6. That dose on the previous PL plant allowed it to live but caused stunted growth, larfy bud, and leaf die off toward the end. If this plant can thrive on a much lower amount, I'm sure others can too.
I've seen people feed as high as 14g/G, but that doesn't mean it was right. MC is pretty forgiving and it worked anyway, even at an extreme dose. It didn't kill the plant but it was surely overdosed on something and likely lacking something else because of that OD. Maybe we ARE overfeeding doing 4,5,6. There's also a human error factor like letting your mixed MC sit too long in a jug and get rotten, PH fluctuations, or letting gnats eat roots to the point of damage.
As @MrSauga said, it seems to be happening more with ProMix, too. I use G&B organics soil (sometimes promix or black gold as a starter around the seed) and only really have the problem when I get to 5-6g/G and start adding K supplements. Adding Potassium to MC needs to be done with extreme caution and at a very small increase at a time. It can help but it can also fry the plant and make the MC look like the culprit, same as pH fluctuations do.
I just got my first bale of ProMix delivered so in the near future I will be able to see for myself if that is part of the issue.

For now I do just have to just read the plant. Some want 1 or 2g, some want 6g and supplements.
All I'm saying is, the minor leaf color problems haven't kept me from harvesting pretty decent amounts of awesome weed. I'm not in a race, I'm here for the taste. With some fine tuning and documentation, I'm figuring out how to be as perfect as I can with each variety.
It's a 1 step food that needs a little extra attention sometimes, and that works for me.

 

[MrSauga]

I still stand by dolomite lime being bad for our type of gardening because of the high amount of magnesium it contains.

True, but if mixed together it works great.

The two most common forms of limestone incorporated into soilless media are calcitic and dolomitic limestone.

• Calcitic limestone is calcium carbonate and serves two purposes in the medium. First, it reacts fairly quickly to neutralize acids in the growing medium. Since it is a soft limestone, it has a short residual life. Second, calcitic limestone provides some calcium, but very little in the way of additional elements.
• Dolomitic limestone is a combination of calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate. It also neutralizes acids in the growing medium, but in general is a harder limestone and dissolves slowly in the growing medium, resulting in longer term pH stability. Dolomitic limestone also provides some calcium and a little magnesium.

Most commercial soilless growing media manufacturers rely solely on dolomitic limestone and vary the particle size to control release rates. Premier Tech Horticulture(Promix), however, uses a combination of calcitic and dolomitic limestone.
Calcitic and dolomitic limestone applications create an even and consistent growing medium pH. When using both forms of limestone, a better control of the pH can be achieved; the calcitic limestone quickly releases and stabilizes the growing medium's pH while the dolomitic limestone slowly releases over the course of the crop, which results in a pH level that is relatively stable through the crop cycle.

I just got my first bale of ProMix delivered so in the near future I will be able to see for myself if that is part of the issue.

I know you know this already, but it reminded me to make a post about looking at manufacturing dates on the Promix bales. They have a lifespan of about a year before the peat starts breaking down and the pH drifts up.

 

[Justin Goody]

I know you know this already, but it reminded me to make a post about looking at manufacturing dates on the Promix bales. They have a lifespan of about a year before the peat starts breaking down and the pH drifts up.

Mine says best by 05/06/2022, should be alright.

 

[multiVortex]

I'm not in a race, I'm here for the taste.

By race I meant how well the finish is, not how quickly.

But I can't believe that the burnt up leaves aren't decreasing the end result. Even if it's 5%, 10%, or a 15% loss, it's still worth being figured out.

Until such a time that I can accommodate some play runs with clones (from the same mom) to figure it out, I'm hoping someone stumbles onto the underlying issue. Until then though, I'll have to work a little more to keep things rolling smooth.

 

[MrSauga]

Mine says best by 05/06/2022, should be alright.

Yes, and I think Shed's bag of HP said to use within a year of the manufacturing date. They may differ from product to product; ie HP, BX, MP, etc.