Persistent problem getting worse

[Tookerton21]

I have had numerous problems this growing season and first time growing outdoors in the Pacific Northwest. I have some Venice OG and dr who strains that h am growing. My problems started off with pests and lots of them. I believe it had to do with our late start to our summer, and abnormally high humidity. Had aphids, fungus gnats, white flies and spider mites. I have controlled them and almost kill them all. I moved the infected plants into smart pots to assist with drying out the soil quicker, water them less, and used a drench gognat (cedar oil). This really helped a lot and in combination with the sticky traps to reduce the amount of adults that are able to reproduce. I used azamax and safer to protect my foliage as a foliage spray. Have been doing this for weeks, with satisfactory success.

I'm using fox farm soil, supplemented with eggshells, and worm castings. Used only fish emulsion nutes in the veg stage. Now I have about 1.5 weeks left until they go into flowering and my leaves are the big brown, and crisp like its burnt. Started off on one plant and is moving all around to them. New growth looks mutated on most of my OG's. I did a flush 3 days ago in case their was a salt build up from the fish nutes and help with a blank slate of need to supplement with other nutes. Most of these issues are on my smaller plants but the mother plant they came off are displaying the same on the few older lower leaves and definitely wierd growth shoots on new growth.

Any help and advance is greatly appreciated and hope I have enough details about the issues, and what I am using. Again these are all purely outdoors and was hoping to move the dr who indoors once those have been sexed, since those are from seed.

 

[Tookerton21]

Sorry I couldn't figure out how to post images. First time on here

 

[AKgramma]

Seeing as the rest of the leaves are healthy, and your location, I would say you are dealing with some creepy critter scraping the cuticle off your leaves at night.

 

[Emilya Green]

I see possibly overwatering and pH issues. Not enough clues given to diagnose completely though. Are you watering correctly?

 

[Tookerton21]

In he beginning I was watering to often which is why I got fungus gnats which I believe I said earlier. I moved them into smart pots since they were taking too long to dry. I wait till at least the first inch is dry to the touch. I went and got a ph testing kit to check the ph of my water, and came out to be at 6.2-7. How would this be a ph issue of I'm using soil? I thought soil was a buffer when ph is off, but I can understand ph for max results. I thought I was fairly detailed as in what I have been doing, but for next time what other details should I include? The weather has also been off in pdx, was humid, lacking sun all summer up until recently.


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[Emilya Green]

In he beginning I was watering to often which is why I got fungus gnats which I believe I said earlier. I moved them into smart pots since they were taking too long to dry. I wait till at least the first inch is dry to the touch. I went and got a ph testing kit to check the ph of my water, and came out to be at 6.2-7. How would this be a ph issue of I'm using soil? I thought soil was a buffer when ph is off, but I can understand ph for max results. I thought I was fairly detailed as in what I have been doing, but for next time what other details should I include? The weather has also been off in pdx, was humid, lacking sun all summer up until recently.


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Good job! That is enough of a clue for me to now help you. Let's first get over this notion that the pots dry themselves out, or somehow that water evaporates. Do an experiment. Take a container full of soil and water it. Water it completely to run off just like you would do one with a plant in it. Set it aside and see how long it takes for that water to evaporate... I think it will surprise you.

Water disappears from our containers because our plants use it! It doesn't matter what type of pot you are in, if your plant is not healthy, it will not use the water as quickly as a healthy plant will.

Next, pH. If you are running a completely natural and organic grow, using absolutely no chlorinated water, AND with an active microlife that you have intentionally injected into your soil, then and only then does pH not matter. If however, because of additives your soil is out of the range of 6-7 before even adding water, that soil will be detrimental to the growing of cannabis. Most commercial soils will be solidly in the correct range, and this will not be a worry.

Then, you measured your water pH I assume, and found it to be 6.2 - 7. That is like saying I am 30-47 years old... doesn't tell you a thing. 6.2 is 80x more acidic than 7... that is quite a range. Let's see if you can narrow that down a bit... the usable range for fluids added to a soil grow is 6.3-6.8. If you are much out of this range, something will suffer. If one of the 17 critical elements can not get into the plant, something bad will happen... it is just a matter of time.

Your plant clearly shows signs of overwatering and I suspected pH problems too. Luckily, right now your major nutrient need is Nitrogen and the pH range it is mobile is quite wide, so you are not yet seeing problems from that. What I do notice however is what looks like the beginnings of a magnesium deficiency, and that most often is cause by improper pH adjustment, it just isn't mobile until above 6.5 pH.

I wrote an article several years ago explaining how to water properly, and it is a sticky thread here on this forum. Reading it should help you understand some of the issues we have talked about, and further explain this next part.

You are watering completely incorrectly for a weed. Weeds do not enjoy being coddled and treated like a prize tomato. They are weeds, and they are designed to thrive in adversity. It is ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE to allow a potted weed to dry out all the way to the bottom every time between waterings. The first thing a weed does is send its big tap root as deep as it can go, just to get a gauge of is environment. These big tap roots sit at the bottom of your container and are the main conduit for nutrients and water up into the plant. There is also a secondary root system that develops just under the soil and to about midway into the container.

The way you are watering is what is causing harm to your plant. When you water, thinking that you should not overwater, you are probably applying a set amount of water to your container each time, an amount that you decided on, not your plant. Second, you are testing the first inch of the soil, and when you feel that it is dry, you come along and do it again.

What happens when you do this? The water that you apply to the top has to respond to gravity and over time the water that you apply at the top will seep to the bottom. The soil at the top and the top roots absorb as much of it as they can as it passed through, but in a day or so, that top inch will get pretty dry, pretty fast... those top roots don't fool around and they suck that top dry pretty quick. We however have a problem Houston... there is still a lot of water pooling at the bottom.

This is what your plant is showing me with those deformed and yet puffy leaves and that sickly yellow color. Your lower roots have been underwater so long that they believe that the plant is dealing with a flood. Being a super survivor, a weed will protect itself until the flood waters recede, and it will coat its lower roots in a protective coating until they can "see" oxygen again. This coating keeps the main pathway for water and nutrients partially closed, and of course the upper roots only have access to nutrients during that short period of time the water is falling through their neighborhood....

As a result of overwatering, your plant is suffering from a nitrogen deficiency. Not because the needed nutrient isnt in there... but because the roots are damaged and unable to uptake it.

Let this plant dry out all the way to the bottom each time you water. When you water, slowly apply water to that soil, attempting to make it soak up as much water as it can possibly hold, like a sponge. You will know when you reach the saturation point because after that, every drop you add at the top, will come out of the bottom as run off. Now you have totally soaked the soil, and this causes two very good things to happen. First, the top will not dry out nearly as fast, and second, seeing water all through the container, the roots will begin to grow laterally toward the sides of the container, exactly what you want to happen in a smart pot.

After you have soaked this container, now you need to let the plant find and use all of this water. By being forced to find it, the roots will grow and become stronger. By allowing the entire container to go through a complete wet/dry cycle, you allow your soil to drift through the entire pH range it was designed for and all of your nutrients will be able to picked up.

To tell if the plant has used all the water, simply lift the container up. If you feel ANY water weight at all, it is NOT time to water. If you have a water meter, stick it all the way to the bottom. You will notice that the meter pegs out all the way to the right... then just raise it up slowly until it stops pegging and shows only moist. Congratulations, you have just found the level of the water table inside of your container. Wait for it to go into the last inch, before you water again. At first, it may take a week to dry this container out... but each time you successfully complete a wet/dry cycle, that time will reduce. Soon your plants will be USING all the water you can give them in less than 48 hours. If you are still in veg at this point, it is time to up-pot, to give you and your plants a bit more of a buffer.

Read my article on watering... I think it will help. Good luck!

 

[Tookerton21]

I want to thank you for the time you have taken to write such detailed responses. Everything you are saying makes complete sense and something I probably am doing without realizing it. I went out and got myself a 50 gallons trash bin to fill with h2o and allow to sit in the sun to dechrorinate. I also got some nutes to do a foliar spray on the plants for immediate food and they loved it. Which just really means that they aren't absorbing through the roots because of what you said, no microbes to break down organic material and drowning the roots. I did up pot them because they could have used it any how but I will be much more careful with my watering regiment. It will be a pleasure to read your article on watering, something I need more information about. Plus it never hurts to read up on such things if it's a hobby of yours. Again thank you soo much and for being helpful, I hope I can post some pics of the success I have in a couple of weeks.


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[Major PITA]

Looks like a possible 'K' deficiency which can be PH-related, although your stated PH range is OK for 'K'.
Also, most fish fert's offer little 'P' and 'K'. Is yours something like 5-1-1?

 

[Emilya Green]

you might want to also check with your local water district and see if they use the old fashioned chlorine that will evaporate away in your new tubs, or the new economical chloramine that is the rave around water companies these days because it doesn't evaporate or boil away, it just keeps doing its good work of killing germs in the public water supply. Unfortunately, the only way to get rid of this stuff is to filter or distill. I have an RO filter for all of my needs.

 

[Tookerton21]

I just went and got some basic fox farms nutes to supplement my girls. Did a light feeding to see how they would react which I did a few days ago. That is right major pita, I was relying on the soil for the majority of my nutrients. I did check on the water treatment and they use chlorine and then add ammonia which states creates chloramine. I'm going to invest in a filter pretty soon.


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[AKgramma]

I wonder if those de-chlor tablets (or drops) you use for tropical fish would work. Either that, or let your water stand open to the air for 24 hours to let the chlorine evaporate. The drops don't kill the fish, so they SHOULD be OK for your plant water.

 

[Emilya Green]

it is a brave new world.... chloramine does not evaporate. They couldn't sell so many water filters if it did and the water isle in the grocery store would not be nearly as popular. It is all connected folks. --Emmie the Economist

 

[AKgramma]

it is a brave new world.... chloramine does not evaporate. They couldn't sell so many water filters if it did and the water isle in the grocery store would not be nearly as popular. It is all connected folks. --Emmie the Economist

Good to know. I have been on well water since 1986. Heavy on the Ca, but no Chlorine.

 

[masonman]

Chloramine is what you are trying to get rid of when a pool is shocked. It will not evaporate like Emilya stated above. It must be filtered or oxidized.

Can you use that barrel to collect rain water from a gutter? Drop a mosquito dunk in it and you're good to go. I also use my dehumidifier water. During flower, I'll get almost a gallon a day from my room.