Same strains?

[Scottsquatch]

Ok, As I have been perusing seed banks looking for strains I might like, I noticed that many different breeders have the same named strains. Are they all made by crossing the same parent plants or are they different crosses. Are some breeders strains more stable than others? Do some have multiple phenos while some always breed true? I also notice the a strain will be at one price from one breeder and the same strain will be a different price from another breeder. I did check to see if the strains I was comparing were both feminized and both photo period and many were the same but priced differently. Any light you can shed on this would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Old Salt]

Are they all made by crossing the same parent plants or are they different crosses.

Secondary breeders will usually start with seed from the breeder originating the strain. The strain may, or may not be stable at this point. The secondary breeders will grow out the plants and choose the ones fitting their criteria for further development. They are bred together, or back to clones of the original batch. They are all of the same strain, but can be quite different phenotypes.

Are some breeders strains more stable than others?

Yes, this is dependent on the individual breeder's further development of the strain.

Do some have multiple phenos while some always breed true?

All strains start with multiple phenotypes. The number of phenotypes drops as the strain is stabilized, but never drops to zero. No lifeform always breeds true. Mutations constantly occur, and lifeforms evolve.

Breeders charge what they think the market will bear. This is based on research and their reputation.

 

[Scottsquatch]

Thanks for the info. As a biology major with many yrs experience breeding cornsnake morphs I actually knew that about stabilizing a morph/strain by back breeding to make it breed true or at least more stable. I guess I just didnt think to apply that knowledge to these plants.
So a really stable strain will have fewer phenos then? Because more work was done to stabilize the strain or am I way off base here?

 

[Scottsquatch]

If two strains have the same name, do the breeders use the same parent strains to create that strain that it shares the same name with? If not, that could really cause a bit of confusion I'd think. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[Old Salt]

No. you've got it right. There are methods, such as treatment with collodial silver, that can be used to change one branch of a feminized cannabis plant to a male. It's often used to breed sister clones.

 

[Old Salt]

If two strains have the same name, do the breeders use the same parent strains to create that strain that it shares the same name with? If not, that could really cause a bit of confusion I'd think. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Unless the parent strains used by both breeders are highly stable, the results would be a crap shoot. I'm not sure of the legality of using the same name for the strains from both breeders, but I'd consider it highly unethical.

 

[Scottsquatch]

The reason I ask is that it seems like I have seen the same strain by different breeders as I have started perusing the strains. If I find another example of this I'll show you.

 

[Old Salt]

Here's a quick look at White Widow as sold by Seedsman one of our sponsors. The are breeders themselves, as well as selling seed from over a hundred other breeders. Looking just at the plain White Widow, not the feminized or high CDB phenotypes, I can see quite a variety in their THC levels.

 

[Growingasmile]

No. you've got it right. There are methods, such as treatment with collodial silver, that can be used to change one branch of a feminized cannabis plant to a male. It's often used to breed sister clones.

do you just brush it on a couple leafs ?

 

[Old Salt]

do you just brush it on a couple leafs ?

No there's more to it than that. There are several threads on this forum dedicated to the subject.

 

[Scottsquatch]

Yeah, that's a pretty big difference.

 

[Scottsquatch]

Hey guys, I didnt know we were talking about feminized seeds, but you have my attention. I plan to learn how to do that after a few grows. I actually already have a bottle of colloidal silver.

 

[3fingerdSean]

A good case is how Mr Soul from brothers grimm came up with Cinderlla 99. It started from a jack herer plant that he named princess. Crossed it with a shiva skunk male to get his p50 then brother sister crossed it a few more times to get p75, p88, and p94 then back crossed that p94 male to the original princess. im saying this from memory so dont qoute but rather check it out. But those numerical markers were a way of definition on the purity reproduction of princess. He said each strain got progressively stronger.Anyways c99 has 2 phenos ones mythical status and highly desirable and recognizable as strong pineapple bud. Anyways lots of breeders buy off grimm and cross it into their favs. When they sale their stock it adds to the value to have prestige. But look at c99 as really good jack herer. But honestly theres an unknown male that pollinated those beans that brought about princess. Soul said he knew it because he had smoked herer many times. C99 is the grail of sativas. Killer killer weed.

 

[Dwight Monk]

Unless the parent strains used by both breeders are highly stable, the results would be a crap shoot. I'm not sure of the legality of using the same name for the strains from both breeders, but I'd consider it highly unethical.

Not sure if Cannabis Strains can be patented yet, and even if so doubtful many go thru that process. Not going to go on my old fart tirade about ethics being different nowadays but there are many who are out to make a buck on someone else's hard work/time spent.

 

[Orlando Scout]

I don't think a cannabis strain can be patented seeing as its still illegal on a federal level.

 

[3fingerdSean]

Jack Herer didn't own his Jack Herer with Haze being sativa from from four different countries, shiva skunk being northern lights #5 aka usa kalifornien being an afghan indica rumored to be crossed to Thai sativa then back crossesd to the indica that clearly was Neviles cut, finally all crossed to F1 Skunk #1 which is Columbian & maexican sativa with afghan indica crossed in. Its a shared gig at the end of the day and it comes down to quality & reputation

 

[Mass Medicinals]

Not going to go on my old fart tirade about ethics being different nowadays

Ok so somehow my dyslexia kicked in and at first I read this as "fair trade"... (That's okay @Dwight Monk, sit this one out and I'll tap in)

OP-

Not all breeders and strains are equal. And depending on the breeder, your seeds may be more likely to display intersex traits (hermie), and have wildly variable phenotypic expression.

With all the pressure on seed vendors / breeders to stay ahead of the trends of what people will buy. It stands to reason that not all seeds are going to be stable true line strains (IBL). Well known breeders and older strains are going to be more stable. Anything being sold as a pheno #X, much less so.

Pricing of strains is wholly dependent on the popularity of the strain and that breeder / vendor. Just look at the popular strains from 2018 (e.g. GCS, GG4) and notice they are starting to show declines in pricing. That's because of the allure of the newer crosses and phenotypes (sunset sherbet, gelato, etc.). A lot of this is just really good marketing and poor impulse control from buyers.

Another issue is genetic screening of cannabis strain lines. This is growing in popularity, but is rather expensive. Independent groups can determine what the strain ancestry is, and even how stable it is (think physical expression). These groups would help level the field, and root out bad apples selling bad genetics. They can often have 20 or more submitted strains that will all fall into a single genetic make-up.

My advice. Do your own research a lot of it. Look for reviews from people that have purchased the same seeds from your chosen vendor / breeder. And then do your best to grow the best you can.

Also keep in mind that strain phenotypic expression can result from their genetics, and also their growing environment. So researching how your strain likes to be grown is equally important.

Don't let this deter you from having fun and happy growing!!!

 

[Scottsquatch]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I typically read as many reviews as I can before a strain of interest makes my list or is rejected.

 

[Mj76]

I have a bit of an addiction to "window shopping" for seeds....and seedfinder has been invaluable to navigating sometimes complicated family trees. How many Amnesia's are there?! I'm curious to know if you've been checking out American or European seedbanks?

 

[gato]

Saw that they don't use the same strains for the same name strains.

Forget which seed company it was, but noticed one of them used other strains to make their own version of Jack Herer as compared to the original JH. Also noticed it with Pineapple Express, unless I misunderstood the parents listed.