Sip or swick my grassroots fab

[Pondwater]

sip container grows, consist of a plastic tote where the base is lifted up by a platform, /rocks round pipes before the soil is added
swick sit the fabric grow bed ontop of a pearlite/rock bed

both seem very similar identicle purpose,
is 1 better than the other?

i got like 30 grassroots beds of all sizes, and im wondering if i should swick 1 of them, or drop 1 into a container like sip with my fabric being a kindof potliner and wicking membrane?

there 25gal planters with 2 plants in each

 

[Emilya Green]

Sort of like putting more than one plant in a container, swick and sip systems are shortcuts designed for the gardener who doesn't want to work a lot harder by using top watering systems. The problem is gravity and that these weeds have a very strong root system at the top of the plant, just below the surface of the soil and going down about 3-4 inches. A bottom watering system hits these top spreader roots last, if at all and this is to the detriment of the plant. Yes, you can successfully grow this way and the plant will adapt somewhat to this unnatural way of doing things and will produce product, but I can't help but to believe that a plant watered from the top would thrive just a little bit more.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Sort of like putting more than one plant in a container, swick and sip systems are shortcuts designed for the gardener who doesn't want to work a lot harder by using top watering systems. The problem is gravity and that these weeds have a very strong root system at the top of the plant, just below the surface of the soil and going down about 3-4 inches. A bottom watering system hits these top spreader roots last, if at all and this is to the detriment of the plant. Yes, you can successfully grow this way and the plant will adapt somewhat to this unnatural way of doing things and will produce product, but I can't help but to believe that a plant watered from the top would thrive just a little bit more.

Total utter bollocks. Its called hydrotropism. This means plant morphology is dictated by where water can be found. In nearly all places at nearly all times water is found in greater concentrations, where plants grow, the deeper into the soil you go. Things like drying out the container grown plant and such are methods designed to protect the plant from the gardener, not a best-case scenario for the plant. When you plant in a SIP you allow what the plants have spent millions of years developing, the opportunity to grow the kind of roots they decide best for varying levels where moisture is found. When you can stabilize this so moisture level is always 35, then 30, 25, then 20, 15, 10, 5 all the way to top, through the whole grow, the plant can grow original rootset delving deeply and design its needs from there, and then, remain unchanged for the duration of life. This is energy it will put into vegetation and eventually buds, which is why SIPs grow bigger plants, give better yields and use 100% of its nutrients and water, meaning a 50% reduction of inputs overall. Hand watering techniques are about making sure the gardener doesn't under or overdo it, and to this feast and famine we tell ourselves there's benefit but the only benefit is that it keeps gardeners from killing their plants or screwing them up overwatering, in fact this constant adaptation to drought and flood uses up plant resources that in SIPs it has avail. to do only one thing, grow. SIPs are used to grow bigger plants, not b/c growers don't want to work.

 

[Roy Growin]

Total utter bollocks. Its called hydrotropism. This means plant morphology is dictated by where water can be found. In nearly all places at nearly all times water is found in greater concentrations, where plants grow, the deeper into the soil you go. Things like drying out the container grown plant and such are methods designed to protect the plant from the gardener, not a best-case scenario for the plant. When you plant in a SIP you allow what the plants have spent millions of years developing, the opportunity to grow the kind of roots they decide best for varying levels where moisture is found. When you can stabilize this so moisture level is always 35, then 30, 25, then 20, 15, 10, 5 all the way to top, through the whole grow, the plant can grow original rootset delving deeply and design its needs from there, and then, remain unchanged for the duration of life. This is energy it will put into vegetation and eventually buds, which is why SIPs grow bigger plants, give better yields and use 100% of its nutrients and water, meaning a 50% reduction of inputs overall. Hand watering techniques are about making sure the gardener doesn't under or overdo it, and to this feast and famine we tell ourselves there's benefit but the only benefit is that it keeps gardeners from killing their plants or screwing them up overwatering, in fact this constant adaptation to drought and flood uses up plant resources that in SIPs it has avail. to do only one thing, grow. SIPs are used to grow bigger plants, not b/c growers don't want to work.

A bit harsh Amigo - you are both right, doesn't mean the other is wrong

There are thousands of ways our beloved herb will grow, there is no right or wrong unless a grower knows nothing about horticulture and makes daft errors [AKA over-watering, over-feeding, not seeing signs of pests etc]

Happy Growin

 

[Emilya Green]

Total utter bollocks. Its called hydrotropism. This means plant morphology is dictated by where water can be found. In nearly all places at nearly all times water is found in greater concentrations, where plants grow, the deeper into the soil you go. Things like drying out the container grown plant and such are methods designed to protect the plant from the gardener, not a best-case scenario for the plant. When you plant in a SIP you allow what the plants have spent millions of years developing, the opportunity to grow the kind of roots they decide best for varying levels where moisture is found. When you can stabilize this so moisture level is always 35, then 30, 25, then 20, 15, 10, 5 all the way to top, through the whole grow, the plant can grow original rootset delving deeply and design its needs from there, and then, remain unchanged for the duration of life. This is energy it will put into vegetation and eventually buds, which is why SIPs grow bigger plants, give better yields and use 100% of its nutrients and water, meaning a 50% reduction of inputs overall. Hand watering techniques are about making sure the gardener doesn't under or overdo it, and to this feast and famine we tell ourselves there's benefit but the only benefit is that it keeps gardeners from killing their plants or screwing them up overwatering, in fact this constant adaptation to drought and flood uses up plant resources that in SIPs it has avail. to do only one thing, grow. SIPs are used to grow bigger plants, not b/c growers don't want to work.

Hi friend... I have seen the proof of what you are talking about through a couple of great experiments on this forum. I am convinced that SIP is a method that I need to check out before I bad mouth it ever again. I will investigate SIP soon, and I think that I am going to be pleasantly surprised with the results. Thank you for your passionate response to my thoughts... you have gotten through. Thank you.

 

[Hash Hound]

I've been using perliteless swicks for a few years now with good results and very few issues.

I eliminate the perlite by using wick strips cut from an old grow bag draped over a plant riser in a dish pan.
Sit the bag right on top. violllla!

P189 W40 w0d.JPG

• Hash Hound
• Jul 4, 2022

good enough for POTM a few yrs back

P171 GS w9hr 3.jpg

• Hash Hound
• Jun 9, 2021

 

[ReservoirDog]

Hi friend... I have seen the proof of what you are talking about through a couple of great experiments on this forum. I am convinced that SIP is a method that I need to check out before I bad mouth it ever again. I will investigate SIP soon, and I think that I am going to be pleasantly surprised with the results. Thank you for your passionate response to my thoughts... you have gotten through. Thank you.

Whew. Having read a decently representative portion of your writing here I took a chance on a tactic that just isn't my go-to, but gambled it would breakthrough. Just as you put it. Thank you for being as reasonable and intelligent, if tough, as I estimated you to be. Now I can revert to my 'resting', and only, personality!

Hoping you'll catch some of my SIP journal/experiment going forward, we've just gotten underway; you can zip-scroll two pages with pics, and you're caught up.

I'm relatively new here but comfortable, thank you. I gave all the boards a good check-over and you won me, fair and square with ahh-mazing growers, better people.

I'm coming back to growing after a long absence and it is my own personal indoor for the very first time. Pins and needles I tell ya... and it's not like I make it easy on myself.

 

[Hash Hound]

here's a better view of the swick plates. If the plants seem to wet I can easily pull a wick or two up out of the water.

swick plate (1).JPG

• Hash Hound
• Aug 29, 2022

swick plate (2).JPG

• Hash Hound
• Aug 29, 2022

 

[ReservoirDog]

I've been using perliteless swicks for a few years now with good results and very few issues.

I eliminate the perlite by using wick strips cut from an old grow bag draped over a plant riser in a dish pan.
Sit the bag right on top. violllla!

P189 W40 w0d.JPG

• Hash Hound
• Jul 4, 2022

good enough for POTM a few yrs back

P171 GS w9hr 3.jpg

• Hash Hound
• Jun 9, 2021

I'd give it to you again if I could. Look, it's the first time I've seen it, and everyone only gets one of those. That's going to bring a tear to my eye if I do not now wish you congratulations, show my gratitude and, then, if I could no longer benefit you or anyone 'here' who might request it, I will carry on down this path where soon it will become my greatest hope to see all of you again.

 

[CBDMed]

here's a better view of the swick plates. If the plants seem to wet I can easily pull a wick or two up out of the water.

swick plate (1).JPG

• Hash Hound
• Aug 29, 2022

swick plate (2).JPG

• Hash Hound
• Aug 29, 2022

@Hash Hound , that is a great idea! Thanks!
Are there any drawbacks to the system?
And do you cut a hole in the middle of your grow bag?
Or do you just let the swicks carry the water, and your plants air-prune right there in the fabric pot??

And if that works, then could one easily jump to larger sizes (10g? 15g?) for all-summer grows, just by nesting plastic garbage cans, with swicks in between?

 

[Hash Hound]

@Hash Hound , that is a great idea! Thanks!
Are there any drawbacks to the system?
And do you cut a hole in the middle of your grow bag?
Or do you just let the swicks carry the water, and your plants air-prune right there in the fabric pot??

And if that works, then could one easily jump to larger sizes (10g? 15g?) for all-summer grows, just by nesting plastic garbage cans, with swicks in between?

For me the size of the dish pan they are in. I can add a gallon and be about 1/2" or so below the plate. That would be gone in two days if I wasn't around. So a bigger tote or auto fill. I'm always around so no big deal.

I haven't cut a hole in the bag, just in the wicks to not over saturate the bottom of the bag and allow some air to get in.

The plants air prune them selves. At the end of a grow a few of the roots will make their way along the wicks, but not as many as some other sips I've used.

I see no reason why you can't go bigger. You can have wicks stick right out of your grow bag and place the bags over whatever.

 

[CBDMed]

For me the size of the dish pan they are in. I can add a gallon and be about 1/2" or so below the plate. That would be gone in two days if I wasn't around. So a bigger tote or auto fill. I'm always around so no big deal.

I haven't cut a hole in the bag, just in the wicks to not over saturate the bottom of the bag and allow some air to get in.

The plants air prune them selves. At the end of a grow a few of the roots will make their way along the wicks, but not as many as some other sips I've used.

I see no reason why you can't go bigger. You can have wicks stick right out of your grow bag and place the bags over whatever.

@Azimuth

Thanks, @Hash Hound! That gives me a much better idea...

Just as a question, do you ever top water? Or only bottom-water?

 

[Hash Hound]

@Azimuth

Thanks, @Hash Hound! That gives me a much better idea...

Just as a question, do you ever top water? Or only bottom-water?

only when I feed a tea every 2 or 3 weeks or topdress which I rarely do. Other than that water only.
I prefer to load my soil up with nutes and let them do their thing.

 

[CBDMed]

only when I feed a tea every 2 or 3 weeks or topdress which I rarely do. Other than that water only.
I prefer to load my soil up with nutes and let them do their thing.

Cool.
How do you load up your soil?
What is your mix??
Thanks.

 

[Hash Hound]

My basic mix is Black Gold Organic or Promix Organic. Some worm castings, but not all the time.
For a cu/ft I mix in a half cup Dr Earth Tomato n Veg and Bud n Bloom. The last few grows when I transplant I add a tbsp of their Life All Purpose slow release, but not to much or the plants won't fade at the end and stay to green, TO GREEN
I add a tbsp Azomite and Epsom salts. Sometimes a mineral mix if I have some but not to much.
I water it and cook in a bin for at least 3 or 4 weeks. I feed 2 or 3 teas during flower. That's it.

 

[Azimuth]

I would imagine the ratio of wick surface area to plant size is an issue? I tried a version of that a while ago with the wicks linking the reservoir and the medium. I found that at the beginning when the plants were small the polypropylene rope wicks I was using cycled too much water, and then when the plant got bigger it didn't cycle enough and the roots grew down the rope looking for water so I had to top water. It was hard to get the combination dialed in.

 

[CBDMed]

My basic mix is Black Gold Organic or Promix Organic. Some worm castings, but not all the time.
For a cu/ft I mix in a half cup Dr Earth Tomato n Veg and Bud n Bloom. The last few grows when I transplant I add a tbsp of their Life All Purpose slow release, but not to much or the plants won't fade at the end and stay to green, TO GREEN
I add a tbsp Azomite and Epsom salts. Sometimes a mineral mix if I have some but not to much.
I water it and cook in a bin for at least 3 or 4 weeks. I feed 2 or 3 teas during flower. That's it.

Ok, great!! Thank you!
She looks tasty delicious!

 

[CBDMed]

@Buds Buddy , @cbdhemp808 , @Bill284

Hey Hash Hound, may I please invite some others to your party?
(And do you have any kief? Haha.)

I would imagine the ratio of wick surface area to plant size is an issue? I tried a version of that a while ago with the wicks linking the reservoir and the medium. I found that at the beginning when the plants were small the polypropylene rope wicks I was using cycled too much water, and then when the plant got bigger it didn't cycle enough and the roots grew down the rope looking for water so I had to top water. It was hard to get the combination dialed in.

Azi, was your setup a plastic pot? Or fabric?
And how would it work to drape a lot of wicks over the pot elevator tray (available on the Zone), and then only lower as many as you need into the water?
And if it is too dry, drop more wicks into the water?

 

[Azimuth]

Azi, was your setup a plastic pot? Or fabric?

Plastic.

And how would it work to drape a lot of wicks over the pot elevator tray (available on the Zone), and then only lower as many as you need into the water?
And if it is too dry, drop more wicks into the water?

That might have worked. With a large enough reservoir, that might be a great system if one had to be away for extended periods.

 

[CBDMed]

Plastic.

Ok, thanks!

That night have worked. With a large enough reservoir, that might be a great system if one had to be away for extended periods.

I was thinking like a 15 or 20g garbage can,
drill 12 holes
thread 6 nylon ropes through
Then put it above the reservoir, and drop in wicks as needed (and lift them out as needed).
That way maybe I could get some big photoperiod grows?

Alternately, I can try to make a big SIP from the garbage cans, like we talked about before.