StinkFinger
New Member
Plants look stellar TBD!
Milk and Crumpets to get back to bed?
SF
Milk and Crumpets to get back to bed?
SF
ThatBoyDean's Simple Grow
- Thread starter DEAN420
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #62
Plants look stellar TBD!
Milk and Crumpets to get back to bed?
SF
Milk and Crumpets, will that work! ?? gonna have to try something, as is know longer dark outside.
Better check the kicthen... lol
Very impressive garden Brother! Your garden looks like a little Army of happy healthy plants! 
- Thread starter
- #64
Very impressive garden Brother! Your garden looks like a little Army of happy healthy plants!
Thanx Ob and welcome to my journal mate!
Tbd
Looking great Deano amigo! Wow, it seems a long time, another 5 weeks when they look that good right now eh?
Im sure you will look after them perfectly!
Im sure you will look after them perfectly!
- Thread starter
- #66
Looking great Deano amigo! Wow, it seems a long time, another 5 weeks when they look that good right now eh?
Im sure you will look after them perfectly!
Yeah bro, 5 weeks seems like quite awhile but it should flyby...
- Thread starter
- #67
Things are running smoothly...
Have a happy weekend people!
Tbd
Blue Cheese Lemon Skunk
Have a happy weekend people!
StinkFinger
New Member
Puttin on some weight!
Looks good mate!
SF
Looks good mate!
SF
Spike69
2nd Place Plant, and 3rd Place Member of the Month
nice
MountainHigh
New Member
I am curious if anyone has ever grown two plants side by side, with and without added perlite? Seen some pretty good super soil grows, but that isn't what that guy is suggesting..but they add perlite too....hummm.
I agree with that guy's article you posted about progressive repotting and how to water, but is he saying straight compost to grow in?
I think my Cheese is doing more than fine in FFOF with 25% perlite....is that guy saying heavy dense compost soil will make what just happened with my little girls go even faster....really? Would be willing to try it if I seen some evidence...like a journal or grow to accompany that rant.
Raised gigantic African Violets knowing one simple thing...they absolutely LOVE bottom watered and good drainage. I learned that from an acquaintance when I was much younger and the internet wasn't more than a few bulletin boards tied together. Before I learned that, my african violets would die after 6 months or so after they stopped flowering by trying to raise them like a normal houseplant.
So am willing to listen if I have reason...all the best soil grows I have seen have added perlite...I am like a monkey, if I see it I will do it...
Just alot of FUD out there and trying to avoid it like dog poo...
brother.
I agree with that guy's article you posted about progressive repotting and how to water, but is he saying straight compost to grow in?
I think my Cheese is doing more than fine in FFOF with 25% perlite....is that guy saying heavy dense compost soil will make what just happened with my little girls go even faster....really? Would be willing to try it if I seen some evidence...like a journal or grow to accompany that rant.
Raised gigantic African Violets knowing one simple thing...they absolutely LOVE bottom watered and good drainage. I learned that from an acquaintance when I was much younger and the internet wasn't more than a few bulletin boards tied together. Before I learned that, my african violets would die after 6 months or so after they stopped flowering by trying to raise them like a normal houseplant.
So am willing to listen if I have reason...all the best soil grows I have seen have added perlite...I am like a monkey, if I see it I will do it...
Just alot of FUD out there and trying to avoid it like dog poo...
brother.- Thread starter
- #71
Hi MountainHigh, welcome to my journal...
The post your mentioning was posted seven years ago in 2003 so it should not be hard to find journals that you maybe able to compare the two methods. Aside from that, curiosity gets to most of us so i've put a few post below by some respected growers that help me understand the benefits to adding and not.
Hope this helps answer your questions
The reason so much is added already 25% is because most puff growers are not gardeners, with a mix like this it is almost imposible to over water ie its almost fool proof. Half that amount would still give a very sharp draining compost. Most standard peat based garden composts work very well with 5% to 7% perlite or sharp sand.
Perlite, grit and sand are added to compost mixes to enhance drainage and hold air in the mix. They have no nutritive value whatsoever. So if a pot holds 10 litres of compost and the compost has 30% perlite, you only have 7 litres that is actively doing something as a live organic mix, the remaining 3 are just inert.
You can grow in just perlite and chemical salt fertilisers, a basic hydro system and biologically totally dead, whereas the allmix is a mainly living medium full of micro fauna, bacteria, fungi etc. They continually break down the carbon based [organic] elements in the mix releasing nutrients held in the lignins and cellulose as they decay. The lower the carbon based portion of the compost the lower the quantity of micro flora, this also means less of them to break down the organic elements in any liquid organic feed you supplement your compost with. That means less food for your plants.
Posted by: Ot1
An organic healthy soil has no need for such things as it has the ability to hold water and oxygen perfectly well by it's self, infact I would think that perlite would actually rob the soil of moisture in dry times.
What has allowed these myths to continue is mainly chemical gardening where the destruction of the natural life in the soil means that extra drainage was needed due to the poor soil structure created by such techniques.
If a gardener is going to use chemicals then he will need to add extra drainage. If he gardens organicly then his soil gets better and better, life within it is thriving!
Just don't over water although a healthy soil will cope with the odd cock up.
Posted by: I Zimbra
Something you may want to try next time instead of perlite is coir or coco fibre. So long as the sea salt has been washed out from the processing it's great, coir is hydrophylic so actually draws water along the fibres. This is a real benefit when mixed with peat to make a compost/soil as peat is hydrophobic when it gets dry and can be problematic getting the whole rootball wet again when it's dried out, not so much of a problem if coir is added to the mix. Some coir also comes with a natural Trichoderma species which can help protect the plants roots. Coir also retains more air than perlite when it's totally waterlogged so won't encourage anaerobic conditions if you accidentally overwater. Due to coir's open porous structure it actually makes a better home than perlite for micro organisms so encourages a healthier micro herd than perlite.
Finally coir doesn't produce a harmful potentially irritating dust when dry and handled
Posted by: felix_dzerjinski
The post your mentioning was posted seven years ago in 2003 so it should not be hard to find journals that you maybe able to compare the two methods. Aside from that, curiosity gets to most of us so i've put a few post below by some respected growers that help me understand the benefits to adding and not.
Hope this helps answer your questions
The reason so much is added already 25% is because most puff growers are not gardeners, with a mix like this it is almost imposible to over water ie its almost fool proof. Half that amount would still give a very sharp draining compost. Most standard peat based garden composts work very well with 5% to 7% perlite or sharp sand.
Perlite, grit and sand are added to compost mixes to enhance drainage and hold air in the mix. They have no nutritive value whatsoever. So if a pot holds 10 litres of compost and the compost has 30% perlite, you only have 7 litres that is actively doing something as a live organic mix, the remaining 3 are just inert.
You can grow in just perlite and chemical salt fertilisers, a basic hydro system and biologically totally dead, whereas the allmix is a mainly living medium full of micro fauna, bacteria, fungi etc. They continually break down the carbon based [organic] elements in the mix releasing nutrients held in the lignins and cellulose as they decay. The lower the carbon based portion of the compost the lower the quantity of micro flora, this also means less of them to break down the organic elements in any liquid organic feed you supplement your compost with. That means less food for your plants.
Posted by: Ot1
An organic healthy soil has no need for such things as it has the ability to hold water and oxygen perfectly well by it's self, infact I would think that perlite would actually rob the soil of moisture in dry times.
What has allowed these myths to continue is mainly chemical gardening where the destruction of the natural life in the soil means that extra drainage was needed due to the poor soil structure created by such techniques.
If a gardener is going to use chemicals then he will need to add extra drainage. If he gardens organicly then his soil gets better and better, life within it is thriving!
Just don't over water although a healthy soil will cope with the odd cock up.
Posted by: I Zimbra
Something you may want to try next time instead of perlite is coir or coco fibre. So long as the sea salt has been washed out from the processing it's great, coir is hydrophylic so actually draws water along the fibres. This is a real benefit when mixed with peat to make a compost/soil as peat is hydrophobic when it gets dry and can be problematic getting the whole rootball wet again when it's dried out, not so much of a problem if coir is added to the mix. Some coir also comes with a natural Trichoderma species which can help protect the plants roots. Coir also retains more air than perlite when it's totally waterlogged so won't encourage anaerobic conditions if you accidentally overwater. Due to coir's open porous structure it actually makes a better home than perlite for micro organisms so encourages a healthier micro herd than perlite.
Finally coir doesn't produce a harmful potentially irritating dust when dry and handled
Posted by: felix_dzerjinski
MountainHigh
New Member
I really don't know...seems counter intuitive to me...I don't have the means to try it or I would consider doing two clones side by side. One in straight compost as was suggested (Not FFOF), and the other in FFOF with 25% added perlite.
And chart the grow....would be an interesting grow. Would rest my mind about my current grow...don't get me wrong, my current grow with inorganic nutes is absolutely loving that mix...but not sure whether organic would like that or the straight compost more...organic is kind of a different critter...trusting the soil to feed your plants is hard and problems are slow coming on and slow to fix for the same reasons.
brother and thank you for looking that stuff up.
And chart the grow....would be an interesting grow. Would rest my mind about my current grow...don't get me wrong, my current grow with inorganic nutes is absolutely loving that mix...but not sure whether organic would like that or the straight compost more...organic is kind of a different critter...trusting the soil to feed your plants is hard and problems are slow coming on and slow to fix for the same reasons.
brother and thank you for looking that stuff up.I decide to listen to people/companies who have done hundreds of these tests over a hundred years or more, for us Europeans that means the Dutch. That makes logical sense to me personally. good drainage, good aireation, no wet and dry spots, makes sense all round to have some perlite 'type' components.
It doesnt mean it cant be done, or even be done better without it but for 99.9% of us what works easiest and best overall for an average grower that cannot spend 24 hrs a day inside the grow area measuring the perfect soil moisture etc is the way to go I think. Even then most of us experience some issues along the way, over water, underwater, yellow leaves, nutes burn etc. The more that can help grows look after themselves the better for me.
Always interesting to see the other views of course, particularly when backed up with some real evidence and comparative tests etc, I mean we might be average growers initially but Im sure we all strive for perfection
It doesnt mean it cant be done, or even be done better without it but for 99.9% of us what works easiest and best overall for an average grower that cannot spend 24 hrs a day inside the grow area measuring the perfect soil moisture etc is the way to go I think. Even then most of us experience some issues along the way, over water, underwater, yellow leaves, nutes burn etc. The more that can help grows look after themselves the better for me.
Always interesting to see the other views of course, particularly when backed up with some real evidence and comparative tests etc, I mean we might be average growers initially but Im sure we all strive for perfection
- Thread starter
- #74
I really don't know...seems counter intuitive to me...I don't have the means to try it or I would consider doing two clones side by side. One in straight compost as was suggested (Not FFOF), and the other in FFOF with 25% added perlite.
And chart the grow....would be an interesting grow. Would rest my mind about my current grow...don't get me wrong, my current grow with inorganic nutes is absolutely loving that mix...but not sure whether organic would like that or the straight compost more...organic is kind of a different critter...trusting the soil to feed your plants is hard and problems are slow coming on and slow to fix for the same reasons.
Yes these guys are organic growers and grow for medicinal use, so think chemical fertilizers are out of the question for them...
And i think a reason for them not using perlite and other inert additives like vermiculite or clay balls to their compost, is that they do deny that volume to the roots, the roots will grow around them but they can't grow through them, leaving less compost and therefore food in the pot.
The 25% added perlite in FFOF and other brands is nothing to get hung up on and makes it easy for the new grower to control, Also users of organics and chemical nutrients can both use there product with ease..
I use Bio Bizz All-Mix that has 30% added perlite and results are good also since i switch form using chemical fertilizers to organics i have less problems like nute burn and lockouts, my plants also look greener if that's possible lol. Yes organics are slower to react due to the NPK being a high levels of one of the three, or have all three nutrients in low levels but if you have serious problems a couple one off feeds with some chemicals will do little harm. JMO
I decide to listen to people/companies who have done hundreds of these tests over a hundred years or more, for us Europeans that means the Dutch. That makes logical sense to me personally. good drainage, good aireation, no wet and dry spots, makes sense all round to have some perlite 'type' components.
It doesnt mean it cant be done, or even be done better without it but for 99.9% of us what works easiest and best overall for an average grower that cannot spend 24 hrs a day inside the grow area measuring the perfect soil moisture etc is the way to go I think. Even then most of us experience some issues along the way, over water, underwater, yellow leaves, nutes burn etc. The more that can help grows look after themselves the better for me.
Always interesting to see the other views of course, particularly when backed up with some real evidence and comparative tests etc, I mean we might be average growers initially but Im sure we all strive for perfection
European company's have done a lot of research and are leading in the game but are only out to make money like most companys! Meaning they dilute and offer a range of products that are gimmicks, so i only buy what i consider needed...
I Zimbra and Felix_dzerjinski are both from Amsterdam and have been growing and actively posting longer than most people on this entire site! they have been members of the site they play in for 5/6 years with a lot of grows and knowledge behind them!
But i believe the best research that can be done, is done yourself. That way you know what works for you! I like take the best bits i find relevant from friends journals and post and then apply it my own techniques to gain grater knowledge...
Tbd
spiderpig1
New Member
wow them girls are pretty. I am lovin how big the white hairs are on the buds.I have to admit when i saw that you put them to 12\12 when the were only 7 in tall i was like they are way to small.But man they look nice.How tall do you think they will end up? I am subscribed and cant wait to see the endYes these guys are organic growers and grow for medicinal use, so think chemical fertilizers are out of the question for them...
And i think a reason for them not using perlite and other inert additives like vermiculite or clay balls to their compost, is that they do deny that volume to the roots, the roots will grow around them but they can't grow through them, leaving less compost and therefore food in the pot.
The 25% added perlite in FFOF and other brands is nothing to get hung up on and makes it easy for the new grower to control, Also users of organics and chemical nutrients can both use there product with ease..
I use Bio Bizz All-Mix that has 30% added perlite and results are good also since i switch form using chemical fertilizers to organics i have less problems like nute burn and lockouts, my plants also look greener if that's possible lol. Yes organics are slower to react due to the NPK being a high levels of one of the three, or have all three nutrients in low levels but if you have serious problems a couple one off feeds with some chemicals will do little harm. JMO
European company's have done a lot of research and are leading in the game but are only out to make money like most companys! Meaning they dilute and offer a range of products that are gimmicks, so i only buy what i consider needed...
I Zimbra and Felix_dzerjinski are both from Amsterdam and have been growing and actively posting longer than most people on this entire site! they have been members of the site they play in for 5/6 years with a lot of grows and knowledge behind them!
But i believe the best research that can be done, is done yourself. That way you know what works for you! I like take the best bits i find relevant from friends journals and post and then apply it my own techniques to gain grater knowledge...
Tbd
Absolutely agree with that one!
I going around in circles a little somehow here lol I have been argueing that point to a degree on woodsmans journal saying that I think people are possibly using far too many additives, i.e adding up to 8 different things to a grow so how do they know what actually works etc. I tend to agree that there are many gimmicks also, if some things, like some of the top soils were as good as they say they we wouldnt need to be adding extras so liberally and frequently..
Again tho, yes, testing yourself is definately the way to truely learn.
- Thread starter
- #77
^^
Agreed.
Agreed.
- Thread starter
- #78
wow them girls are pretty. I am lovin how big the white hairs are on the buds.I have to admit when i saw that you put them to 12\12 when the were only 7 in tall i was like they are way to small.But man they look nice.How tall do you think they will end up? I am subscribed and cant wait to see the end
Thanx for subscribing brother and i hope you enjoy the rest of my journal...
These girls will finish off around 21 to 25 inches...
- Thread starter
- #79
Hi people, hope your all having a good weekend!
Anyway its been awhile since i posted, so thought i'd share the prgress of my girls. Its day 56 and the Blue cheese is mostly finished and is ready to cut now but the lemons could go another 2/3 weeks but due to time restrictions i'll be harvesting them all in a weeks time.
View image in gallery[/center]
Tbd
Anyway its been awhile since i posted, so thought i'd share the prgress of my girls. Its day 56 and the Blue cheese is mostly finished and is ready to cut now but the lemons could go another 2/3 weeks but due to time restrictions i'll be harvesting them all in a weeks time.
View image in gallery[/center]
Tbd
StinkFinger
New Member
Stellar TBD!
Should be a great week!!
Cheers.
SF
Should be a great week!!
Cheers.
SF
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