Bagseed Indoor 600W MH/HPs Airpot Sensi Tent

[MrSauga]

I just don't get how that's an easy way to tell. Now that they are in 5gal pots, I don't even bother trying to throw my back out, leaning over in weird ways to get at the pot and lift it. Now I look for the leaves to droop about 2 days after the last watering.

OK, so it sounds like you've got a good handle on things tbh. The only thing you seem to be struggling with, self admittedly, is the watering technique. In veg you want a good wet/dry cycle. In flower you don't want them to wilt. You want to be ahead of them. That calmag says 3-5mL/ gal so I would continue with 5mL and 6g of Megacrop. However, if you are watering after you see the droop which you mentioned was two days then it sounds like you are watering too fast. The runoff you are getting is probably premature runoff. The water is blowing past the medium and your pots are not really getting thoroughly wet. Try slowing that method down and see if it takes more water. It should because slowly watering gives the medium time to absorb the water.

changed ph from 6.7 to 6.3 (9 days ago) at 5.5g, went to RO at 6g, added about 1.5ml/gal of c/m first, then the full dosage of 3.5ml/gal c/m- still in 6g/gal MC.

The RO could be why you are seeing more Ca def now.

 

[SauronBlue]

OK, so it sounds like you've got a good handle on things tbh. The only thing you seem to be struggling with, self admittedly, is the watering technique. In veg you want a good wet/dry cycle. In flower you don't want them to wilt. You want to be ahead of them. That calmag says 3-5mL/ gal so I would continue with 5mL and 6g of Megacrop. However, if you are watering after you see the droop which you mentioned was two days then it sounds like you are watering too fast. The runoff you are getting is probably premature runoff. The water is blowing past the medium and your pots are not really getting thoroughly wet. Try slowing that method down and see if it takes more water. It should because slowly watering gives the medium time to absorb the water.

The RO could be why you are seeing more Ca def now.

I water as slowly as I can bear, which is a bit faster now, because it's so hard to get a good position with all the dense growth so near the pot. I've said in my posts how I water very slowly, and use the "correct" watering technique, getting the outer edges mostly. Does 1gal of water seem like so little for the amount of soil? What makes you think I'm flooding the soil and causing it to drain improperly? If I water too fast in an airpot, it will spill all over thru the holes on the pot that prune the roots. I reduced watering time to 2 days from 3, under advice from someone else, and the fact that they were droopy at watering time at 3 days, then perked up after watering.
My next plants, I'll let them grow a bit taller and trim the first 2-3 nodes to give myself some room to get at the soil. You say the RO could be causing the def, but I started using the RO because of the def. I did, however up the cal-mag to 5ml/gal





P1

P2





I've spent the last few days keeping my mind off of the plants and their issues, to avoid going crazy. I've checked on them a few times a day, kept the conditions as good as possible, but just let them be. The red dip creep onto the upper leaves, but just a hint, no dark spots or yellowing. I haven't watered them because they haven't looked sad or droopy, but the top of the soil was really dry today when I finally watered. I had to let the water soak in for a few seconds before it would even penetrate the soil.

Both plants got the same water, RO base, 5ml cal-mag, 6g MC/ gal. I went a bit low on the ph, just a few drops took me to about 6.1 from 6.5, so I added 1L of some weaker mix that was sitting around, and it brought the ph to 6.3 and ppm to 860. I trained P2 to be a rectangle, I think it's a better way to train them. One issue, the stem is pretty cracked open at the base- my low-stress training must have been pretty high stress. I'm planning on flipping to bloom tomorrow, I want to get on it before the new month/year. I'd rather the plants be healthier, but I don't want to keep vegging these plants any bigger. Hopefully the next batch, with RO from the start, won't have the issues these have.

 

[MrSauga]

You say the RO could be causing the def, but I started using the RO because of the def. I did, however up the cal-mag to 5ml/gal

RO has nothing in it for the plant. So you need to give it calmag right from the beginning or as soon as you start using it. Tap water has lots of good stuff in it... ca, mg, iron, chlorine etc.

I had to let the water soak in for a few seconds before it would even penetrate the soil.

Do you cut your soil with perlite at all? Many growers cut their soil with 25% perlite to allow for better drainage. The water, as you see when it puddles on top for a while, has to do the same to the stuff under the top. Often it doesn't get a chance to soak in thoroughly.

 

[SauronBlue]

RO has nothing in it for the plant. So you need to give it calmag right from the beginning or as soon as you start using it. Tap water has lots of good stuff in it... ca, mg, iron, chlorine etc.

Do you cut your soil with perlite at all? Many growers cut their soil with 25% perlite to allow for better drainage. The water, as you see when it puddles on top for a while, has to do the same to the stuff under the top. Often it doesn't get a chance to soak in thoroughly.

So, I started on tap water or carbon filtered, which came to exactly the same or higher ppm, so who knows what if any benefit that had. After about a month of everything looking fine, I started seeing symptoms, so I switched to RO. I always used some cal-mag with the RO, but not with the tap/carbon. They seem to be coming around now, but slowly.


FF Ocean Fields had some perlite to start with. I added about 15-20% to the mix of the 1.5gal pots, but not the 5gal or the original solo cups. This was the longest I've left them, to be sure that they weren't carrying extra moisture from my somewhat premature watering the last time. Again, I usually water slowly (at least it seems so to me) and all around the soil. I use one liter at a time, and go back and forth between the plants to give more time to soak in before the next pail. I'd say it takes me 20-30 minutes or more to water them. The trouble showed up while in the higher draining 1.5gal pots, but I think it must have been something in the water. As I've said, it seemed to get worse faster when it was hot and dry, plus the rusty spots and yellowing has slowed and stopped, since using the RO and cal-mag, so I think the worst is behind, and it was a water issue.

I'm itching to flower, so that might happen tomorrow

 

[SauronBlue]

10am

9pm





So, after waiting as long as I could stand without a sign from the plants, I watered last night, and this morning everything was so sad looking. I left them alone to go run errands, came in when it was lights out (I'm giving them 6 hours dark for the past week, maybe), and just now, 2 hours after lights on, I went to look. All of the bright stripes that had been fading since the last watering are back, like they never left. It just popped in over the past few hours, as I had been subtly pleased with the slow progression back to green. P1 was up straight again, but P2 was still droopy. It's hard to see in the pictures, with the color correction, and whatever other things it does to improve pic quality, but it's a huge difference to the eye. The raised parts of the leaves look very light, lime green, against a darker background. This is what preceded the spotting and yellowing before.

I'm just not going to stress about this. I'm very disappointed that I just bought $2,000 of lighting for what looks to be the beginnings of a bum crop, as usual. I really don't get why people say they grow the best bud they've ever had at home, because I am constantly disappointed by my own. I'm going to grow it, see what happens, try again with another crop, and keep learning along the way, but the constant failure has taken the hope out of it for me. Maybe things will turn around, maybe I'll be surprised, but I just don't feel passionate about it atm

 

[MrSauga]

Can you get some pics with the lights off at any point. Tops of plants, lower section of plants as well. I'd like to help.

from my somewhat premature watering the last time.

Was this in reference to what I was referring to the other day? If so you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say.
What I mean is if you water too fast the water doesn't soak in so the water blows past the medium causing a premature runoff, not a true runoff. But to me from what you have explained you are watering perfectly and not fast at all.
There's lots of good bud sites there so don't lose your mojo. They are doing fine albeit just missing a certain kick to get them on track.

 

[MrSauga]

When you say Fox Farm Ocean Fields, are you referring to Fox Farm Ocean Forest? I never heard of Fields and can't find info on it so I'm assuming it is Forest.
That's a great soil and I use it all the time. It does require cutting like I mentioned so the roots can enjoy the benefits of the oxygen. I'm not saying that's what the issue is because many don't cut it but for the future keep that in mind. You'll see a big difference on how the plant absorbs the water.

 

[SauronBlue]

Hey, Sorry I haven't been on, but I've been pretty busy, and avoiding thinking about my plants any more than needed. They seem to get really light after watering, then back to green as time goes on, then lime green again with the next watering. I gave them 7g/gal of MC last time, with the cal-mag. I still don't have the darker green, and the tips are barely burnt, if at all, so I'm going up to 7.5 to see if they get the N they seem to want. Tonight is the first day of Flower cycle, they have yet to have a 12-hour night, but the past week has been 6 hours rest, after 24/0 before that.

Can you get some pics with the lights off at any point. Tops of plants, lower section of plants as well. I'd like to help.


Was this in reference to what I was referring to the other day? If so you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say.
What I mean is if you water too fast the water doesn't soak in so the water blows past the medium causing a premature runoff, not a true runoff. But to me from what you have explained you are watering perfectly and not fast at all.
There's lots of good bud sites there so don't lose your mojo. They are doing fine albeit just missing a certain kick to get them on track.

Not really sure if you mean taking pics with the flash while the lights are off, but I can't get any pics that I really think show what I mean any better than what I've already captured.

This was referring to the fact that I watered after 2 days, when I would've waited 3, but I really wanted to try the new feed.

When you say Fox Farm Ocean Fields, are you referring to Fox Farm Ocean Forest? I never heard of Fields and can't find info on it so I'm assuming it is Forest.
That's a great soil and I use it all the time. It does require cutting like I mentioned so the roots can enjoy the benefits of the oxygen. I'm not saying that's what the issue is because many don't cut it but for the future keep that in mind. You'll see a big difference on how the plant absorbs the water.

Yes, it's the Ocean Forest. I added perlite to my 1.5's, but not the 5gal.

I just put 3 babies from solo cups to 1.5gal, and the last 4 clones in the cloner all have roots, but not enough to transplant yet. At least I can still get that right lol

I get what you're saying about not losing the faith, but it's been a rough run so far for me. It started off with over 100 failed attempts to germinate seeds, leaving me with only the 2 main plants that I have, plus their clones. batch after batch of seeds would not pop in dirt, in rockwool plugs, in paper towel, nothing. Then to keep banging my head against this leaf issue, with no great success, is quite frustrating for me. I'm not good at dealing with failure, especially when I'm really trying. I'd rather give up than fail, I guess. If I let myself fixate on that issue, I will, to the point that I'll end up tearing the whole tent apart like the Tazmanian Devil, before I even realize I'm about to do it. Not saying it's a positive trait, but better to know, at least, than be ignorant of your limitations/weaknesses. At this point, I'm going to let it do what it's going to do, do the best I can for them, and hope for the best. I've got a new crop, so I'll see if they develop similar issues.


I watered on the 3rd, I'll post new pics after I water today, in a few hours.

 

[MrSauga]

They seem to get really light after watering, then back to green as time goes on, then lime green again with the next watering.

It sounds like the feeding is fine. The light green is from the new growth growing once it gets hit with the nutes. The darker green is after that growth has slowed down and is enjoying the food. I wouldn't go higher than 6.5g imho with the MC. Something to think about.

 

[SauronBlue]

I've been spreading myself really thin, with lots of work, plus prepping to move, along with taking care of the plants and everything else on my normal schedule. This update will be bare-bones, as I have to run out in less time than I have. My last watering was 7g/gal, plus 5ml of cal-mag at 1050ppm, and they looked the same as always, so this time I gave the big girls 7.5 mg of MC, and somehow my ppm shot up to 1450. I was going to water it down, but I decided to give it a try. Last night at lights on, I gave them each 1gal of that "hot" water. Today, just before lights out, they look quite happy. I did a bit of defoliation last night, and moved the MH over the veg/clone plants

 

[Hydroholic]

I've been spreading myself really thin, with lots of work, plus prepping to move, along with taking care of the plants and everything else on my normal schedule. This update will be bare-bones, as I have to run out in less time than I have. My last watering was 7g/gal, plus 5ml of cal-mag at 1050ppm, and they looked the same as always, so this time I gave the big girls 7.5 mg of MC, and somehow my ppm shot up to 1450. I was going to water it down, but I decided to give it a try. Last night at lights on, I gave them each 1gal of that "hot" water. Today, just before lights out, they look quite happy. I did a bit of defoliation last night, and moved the MH over the veg/clone plants

Im perplexed in how you are using 7g with the added cal mag and only have 1050ppm. Seems way low from all my numbers.

 

[SauronBlue]

Im perplexed in how you are using 7g with the added cal mag and only have 1050ppm. Seems way low from all my numbers.

I don't know, that was my prior watering, and I was confused as to why this recent one was so much higher with only .5g more, so maybe I got something wrong. My 7.5g with cal-mag came out to over 1400ppm, but a full day later, I'm hard-pressed to find a burnt tip, and I'm much happier with the richness of color I see. I may try the ".5 every other feed" plan, and see how that works from here on. I'm giving the young'ns a much stronger mix than before, also, so I hope that keeps them green throughout. I had them underT5's for much longer than their parents, so they're much more strechy.

 

[SauronBlue]

Gotta make this quick, running out the door. Watered last night, same 7.5MC/5C-M. they took about 2.5gal. Things are looking good, got a bluetooth hygrometer, so I can look at patterns over time. I need a new watering system desperately- I'll get it done this weekend...

 

[SauronBlue]

P1 Gen2

P1 Gen3

P2 Gen2

P2 Gen3






I got a watering wand finally set up, and it works just about perfectly. The gravity pulling it thru the hose is enough to make it spray out in a mist, and can slowly water them, without tearing up the soil from strong jets. But even in my success with it, I'm not happy lol. Now that I'm more busy, I don't want to spend 30 minutes watering anymore. I'm going to set up a pump to water my bigger plants on a timer.
I've got the clones put into solo cups, and I'm hoping the MH over them keeps them from stretching as much as the last crop did. I can see those plants starting to produce closer nodes, now that the MH is in there. At least I'll have plenty of room at the base to easily water them hehe. They look yellow and close to death, but that's just from having pure water, and no nutes once roots popped out. in a week, they'll look great.
Well, I gave everybody some water yesterday. I mixed up with 8g/gal MC and 5ml/gal cal-mag. I got a low reading again, only around1200ppm, so I mixed up a new batch for the next watering. I've been extra careful when measuring, but when I put 8g/gal, I got around the same 1200, so I put in another .5g/gal, which got me to 1415, so I put in another .7g/gal to get to 1500 from 9.2g/gal of MC and 5ml/gal cal-mag. Maybe the reading will go up overnight, as the particles dissolve, but I shook it up for about 20 min, until there were no more white flakes floating around.
My mixing process for MC, after trying microwaving, crushing, etc., is to simply give it a good shake up in a 1.5l wine bottle, until all of the small powder is dissolved, and the balls are broken up into flakes- usually 2-5 min. Then I add it to the remainder of the 5 gal of water, in a plastic "Poland Spring" water bottle, or "carboy" as I see them called online. I lay the capped bottle across my lap, and use one hand on the bottom or neck of the bottle to push/pull it on my lap. I can shake the hell out of it for a long time without much effort, compared to lifting it up and shaking normally. Takes me about 10-15 min of shaking to get all the particles that are bigger than the little suspended air bubbles, to dissolve. That's when I test, when there's nothing floating that I can distinguish from a tiny air bubble. I'll let it sit, and see if it changes by tomorrow.
My new hygrometer is a new necessity for me. For the same price as any other meter, $15, this one has the same LCD display as any other, but also beams historical data for up to the past 20 days onto my phone when I come into bluetooth range. It's already helped me to notice and remedy a big humidity spike after lights out. I also noticed that some temp and humidity extremes that I had thought were just touched briefly, were actually where the tent was spending a lot of time. Only a few days old, but I'm very glad I found this thing.

 

[SauronBlue]

P1

P2

So, here's some detail on the leaves of the big plants. Yes, there's yellowing at the bud sites, but it's in the middle of the leaves, not all the way to the tips, and not stripes. Also, the leaves of all the other layers are fully, deep green, not striped or light colored. I can start to see a hint of tip burn, but it's well worth it to see the color look so good. 6g/gal is not enough for these girls, when added to RO water. 8g and up are looking great! Feeling much better about the outcome of this grow.

 

[SauronBlue]

2 more waterings, and I'm keeping up the high MC amounts, and the c-m. I'm not really sure how, but the ppm doesn't seem to be reliable, based on the volume of MC. I can't imagine it's simply the ratio of balls to powder, but I put in 8.5g/gal last time, and the ppm was only about 1100. Then I added another .5g/gal and another .7g/gal, and only got to 1400ppm - which was my ppm at like 7g/gal earlier. I'm mixing with close to laboratory precision, but I'm confused by my readings. My mix last night was over 9g/gal. I'm thinking of how I can make a video to prove that I'm putting in the right amounts.
Regardeless, My girls are just starting to throw out tiny hairs, and are still looking great. I got an irrigation system set up, with a pump powering it. Now I let the pump water them for 30min, rather than tire my arms out, wrestling with low branches. I'm trying to catch up in the MC grow thread, to post there, but it's taking me a while, with all my other obligations.

 

[MrSauga]

I'm thinking of how I can make a video to prove that I'm putting in the right amounts.

There's no need to do that. We trust what you are saying. There's no reason for you to mislead us so for me I believe what you are saying!

I'm not really sure how, but the ppm doesn't seem to be reliable, based on the volume of MC.

It's really the main reason most of us tell growers not to worry about the PPM. Concentrate on the g weights when mixing nutes as you have been and forget about the PPM. If you are using MC alone then PPM is not a concern.
Some people mix a large quantity of it at one time, maybe enough for two weeks, and that tends to balance things out more as far as those white balls are concerned.

 

[MrSauga]

I must say though for all the records I keep my PPM is pretty consistent. What type of water are you using. Does the PPM vary in it? Silly question but do you check it from feed to feed before mixing your nutes?

 

[SauronBlue]

I would quote you, but I've got a bunch loaded from the MC thread, and I don't know how to post one and leave the rest. I want to remember to respond to some messages. I use RO water, and I don't check it before every mixing, but I've checked it enough to know it always comes out between 10-20ppm. I halfway want to do the video just for myself. Once, there was a bit of MC in the corner of the cup that I used to weigh it, and I blamed the difference on that, but it just seems to make common sense that adding more solids to a liquid, and dissolving them, should lead to a higher number of dissolved solids in that liquid. I start wondering how more in can equal less out, and start second-guessing myself. Did I tare this scale right, did any spill, etc. I'm going to mix up a batch tomorrow, and accuracy will be front in my mind.

 

[MrSauga]

Is your MC sitting out in the open? It absorbs lots of moisture. I keep small amounts in a mason jar then seal the bag up good and store in a dry cool location. This could contribute to the inconsistencies if that's the case.