Bagseed Indoor 600W MH/HPs Airpot Sensi Tent

[SauronBlue]

No, but after one mixing, I noticed a bit of MC had latched onto some moisture that must've been in the small cup. One of the little plastic "party cups" that I use for humidity domes, on top of my solo cups. There was just enough to have 2 balls stuck in it. That was the only time I noticed that, and I made sure to rinse them clean after that

 

[multiVortex]

I got an irrigation system set up, with a pump powering it. Now I let the pump water them for 30min, rather than tire my arms out, wrestling with low branches.

Have you see the round floraflex drip trays? Awesome stuff. Really gets the water evenly dripped across the top of the pot.

 

[Silverfox125]

Is your MC sitting out in the open? It absorbs lots of moisture. I keep small amounts in a mason jar then seal the bag up good and store in a dry cool location. This could contribute to the inconsistencies if that's the case.

thanks mr S. I’m soaking up all these MC tips for a trial run here shortly

 

[MrSauga]

thanks mr S. I’m soaking up all these MC tips for a trial run here shortly

Your welcome SF!
It doesn't like moisture at all. It will go goopy and clumpy when exposed to high RH.

 

[SauronBlue]

I haven't had any issues using my MC out of the bag, but I did just put it into a container from a dispensary because the bag is getting low, and I want to see what I'm scooping/leaving. Going to have to order soon to avoid a lapse.
If you mean those green trays that sit on top, they look nice for some applications, but it's a problem getting thru all the bush to get to the pot, that's why I need the pump. If you look at the pics of my tent from the front, you can see that the branches come lower than the rim of the pot, because of how low I trained them. I needed something that simply delivered the water there without me pouring. I'm going to train the next crop a bit taller.


I watered again, at what I measured at about 9.5g/gal. They took the first half of that jug with no ill effects, but there was still some of the prior feed in the bucket when I added the most recent, so that would've diluted it a bit. I mixed up another 5gal jug for the next feeding, 9g/gal came out to about 1315ppm. What I'm feeding them now is about 1450ppm. I want to test if I can take out the cal-mag, now that the amount of MC is higher, but I don't want to risk causing any problems while I'm in flower.

I chopped my 2nd gen plants in half, they were way too tall. I'm going to have to work out how to bush the 2nd gen plants out in the small space I have for them. I took 4, 6 and 7 clones from P1.20, P2.20 and P2.21, respectively. Now my cloner is in full swing, big things to come...

 

[Hydroholic]

I agree your numbers are suspect. My numbers on RO water and now Well water run pretty close. I run 200-235 ppm per 1gm. Your 9.5 puts it around 1900+ by my calculator. I run low 1600’s in flower.
I just ordered the flora flex square plates for my 7 gallon pots. It uses tubing and a pump to push water into the top of the caps. You don’t have to hand water them.

 

[SauronBlue]

But I don't understand how the numbers can be wrong. On this last one, I made sure to zero out my scale with the clean cup on it. The cup only had a dusting of powder residue after weighing out and adding 46.7g, but I still rinsed that into the mix. I had a full 5 gal jug of RO water, and shook it all up before adding the cal-mag. Strong flashlight under the jug confirms that there's no clumps, nothing bigger than a tiny air bubble. Check with my meter, and I get 1315ppm. These low numbers are what I'm getting consistently, but before I had higher numbers, that's why I've been questioning it.

 

[SauronBlue]

I know it must seem like I abandoned this journal, but I'm back! It's been a long journey, getting into my new space, but I'm still going strong. This site isn't about crazy life adventures, it's about growing bud, so I'll skip the drama and stay on-topic.
My 2 flowering plants went thru the move really well, because they went into the move in great shape, were packed carefully in boxes, and prioritized to be unpacked and put into a good situation right away. They show almost no sign of stress. The veg plants, however, were somewhat neglected in the lead- up to the move, as other tasks came before them, with the assumption that they'd have time to recover, and I didn't really have the space to train them right. I just let them grow naturally in the small closet, and even took in some strays that were grown completely differently than my style. Add to that, simply bagging those plants (which then got pretty beat up by things shifting in the truck), and leaving them bagged for days as other things came up.
I've got 2 areas set up for growing right now, a small room, and a pretty big closet. The 2 Flowering plants are in the closet, which is fine for them to finish up in. The recovering plants are in the new veg room. They are coming back around nicely, after some rough going at the start. I couldn't find the ph or tds sticks, or the cal-mag for the first feeding they got (the flowering plants didn't seem to mind 2 waterings like this), and they didn't seem to like it at all, large white burns broke out all over the leaves. Once I got the ph right, and all the right stuff, in the right amounts, they got happy again.
I still have a lot to do as far as setting up the room(s). It's a lot different from using a tent, there's no set up places to attach lights or vents, and I don't have a hidden porch window to vent out of, I don't want to put anything up that will draw attention. I've got cardboard on this side of the mini-blinds, to block the light both wqys, but that isn't great for long-term, and I want to get better ventilation going. I'm also hesitant to drill wood into the ceiling, to hang lights from, but I need a better solution than the curtain rod on the closet door.

Flower:





Veg:

 

[SauronBlue]

So, I'm giving my Flowers about 2000ppm of MC, or about 80g for 5gal of water, plus 20-25ml of cal-mag. The ladies look very happy, and the slight burn you might see on the tips is a hold-over from the 1st feed after moving. I was completely guessing, I had no scale, no ppm meter, or anything. I tried to eyeball the same amount, once I found the meters (but no scale yet), and It came out to about 2500ppm. I guess there is a point that they've had enough, I was starting to wonder LOL. I've got great looking bud growth, and continued green all over. I've trimmed the bottom really clean, and now I'm just waiting the last 3 weeks or so, for them to finish up. They're sugary, sticky, just popping a few orange hairs, and smell subtly delicious. I've got no venting outside, just 2 20" box fans with a spacer between, to circulate above and below the canopy, and a pair of glade automatic air sprayers in the surrounding room.

P1

P2

The Veg area is not quite as photogenic yet, but I plan to repot at least 3 of them tomorrow, so I may post some glamour shots of them after that. I have 4 seeds in the dirt; Green Crack, Purple Diesel Daze, Cheeselicious, and Strawberry Eclair. The strawberry seed was just a "why not" deal, as it was a messed up seed that I got a replacement for, and I don't expect to pop soil. Of the rest, only green crack has not popped thru after 2 days(and a 6-8hr soak before burying). With them and my seedlings in the cloner, I hope to have a healthy crop to go to flower in about 3 months, after the current veg plants go thru flower and harvest.

 

[MrSauga]

So, I'm giving my Flowers about 2000ppm of MC, or about 80g for 5gal of water, plus 20-25ml of cal-mag.

Welcome back Sauron!

Am I reading this correctly?? 80g in 5gal of water?

The max dose I ever recommend with MC is 6.5g/gal. More often than not plants make it through to harvest at 6g/gal or less.

You're adding over the double recommended max doseage that MC has on their calculator. Now you may think this is fine and the plants look great, but you're building up excess nutrients that are going to lock out the plant during this flower stage. In fact it could be starting now as I see what looks like the leaf edges(points) losing green and slightly curling up.
Please take my advice and stay below 6.5g. Looking at your plants they will enjoy 6-6.g and no calmag. That's a heck of a lot of N going in right now that the plant won't use. The excess N will cause most of your issues.

My .02 and welcome back

 

[SauronBlue]

Welcome back Sauron!

Am I reading this correctly?? 80g in 5gal of water?

The max dose I ever recommend with MC is 6.5g/gal. More often than not plants make it through to harvest at 6g/gal or less.

You're adding over the double recommended max doseage that MC has on their calculator. Now you may think this is fine and the plants look great, but you're building up excess nutrients that are going to lock out the plant during this flower stage. In fact it could be starting now as I see what looks like the leaf edges(points) losing green and slightly curling up.
Please take my advice and stay below 6.5g. Looking at your plants they will enjoy 6-6.g and no calmag. That's a heck of a lot of N going in right now that the plant won't use. The excess N will cause most of your issues.

My .02 and welcome back

Thanks for the warm welcome!
As I stated in that post, the burnt edges came up when I gave them 2500ppm by accident, almost 2 weeks ago. They were totally green before that. The only issues I've seen are fan leaves that are under the plant, or in the middle of dense bush turning dark and wilting. Any plants I've grown before have gone very yellow and brown, all over during bloom, and people say that it's to be expected. So, being that I'm at about 3 weeks from harvest, and have steadily upped the dose, without any issues, when are you saying the lockout will come, and what would be the effect? You think I'm going to lock out N? I thought the great thing about MC is that it doesn't "inject" the nutes into the plant, but allows them to be available for use, as the plants needs them, and decides to make use of them. And why have my plants looked much greener and healthier as I use way more than 6g, than they looked with 6g? When I was using 6g, way back in December, my younger veg plants were struggling, yellowed, red spots on the leaves, very light green with darker veins, etc. Now my plants are bigger and hungrier than they were then, and look healthier than anything I've ever grown, so it's against my common sense to stop doing what's working. I was actually going to go up to 90g the next time I mix a batch.
That said, I've got a weakness for good logic and reasoning, so I'm willing to be educated on what I might be overlooking, if you can tell me why I should risk changing what's working, so close to the finish line.

 

[MrSauga]

You think I'm going to lock out N? I thought the great thing about MC is that it doesn't "inject" the nutes into the plant, but allows them to be available for use, as the plants needs them, and decides to make use of them. And why have my plants looked much greener and healthier as I use way more than 6g, than they looked with 6g? When I was using 6g, way back in December, my younger veg plants were struggling, yellowed, red spots on the leaves, very light green with darker veins, etc. Now my plants are bigger and hungrier than they were then, and look healthier than anything I've ever grown, so it's against my common sense to stop doing what's working. I was actually going to go up to 90g the next time I mix a batch.

No what will happen is you will lock K out with the excess N, Ca and Mg. The plant only uses what it wants, so you build up an excess of all these nutrients, then when the plant goes for more demand of K it can't because the other elements are preventing that from happening.

Mulders Chart: Nutrient Interactions – Nutriag

www.nutriag.com

They will look healthier as you mentioned because of the N. Nonetheless I can only advise you of what I know and have seen so at least you have the facts to work with.

 

[SauronBlue]

If I go back to 6g/gal my plants will be shocked, and I can't imagine that is good. You didn't addess my comment that at 6g/gal my plants were not healthy looking. They were too light, striped with the dark veins, and were turning yellow and dying. How would going back to that be better for my plants that didn't seem to like it when they were little, and now have much more mass to support? if there is N. Ca and Mg building up in the soil, even though the plant is using up lots of it along the way, wouldn't there also be K building up as well? If the plant is using more of the other 3 over it's life, wouldn't even more K than them be built up? The reading you linked only addressed a buildup of one, but what if there's lots of everything? Seems like a flush would fix that also, but ppl on the MC thread seem to treat flush as the other "F" word, not to be said in polite company.
Again, I'm no expert grower. I've grown at a hobby level for a few years, but never giving it the attention it needed to thrive until recently. I've gotten passable, but not good or excellent results. These plants were looking great, but most of them start off really pretty, before the issues come. Right around the time of putting them into 5gal pots, these started to suffer. The 2 things I did that resulted in a change in that, were to switch to RO water and increase the feed. I was at 6g/gal, way back then, in early/mid veg, and 6g/gal was not enough. This is simply the empirical evidence that I have at my disposal.
According to this quick look-up, a lack of potassium should result in lower growth dying off, as K is mobile, and can be scavenged when needed. It should cause wilting stems and leaves, as it contributes to rigidity and water flow. It could result in buds not filling in, getting dense. I can see how the fan leaves could be getting cannibalized for their K, but the plants are vibrant and strong, not wilting, and while you can't know what you're missing, the buds look pretty full to me, not like there is a deficiency at work. Being that this is a 1-part nutrient, and there is no way to increase the K without increasing everything the exact same percentage, it's hard for me to understand how decreasing everything makes one part more available. If I did decrease it, I don't think I could see going less than 9g/gal.
Again, I'm not trying to argue, just trying to learn what you're trying to teach, and make sense of it in my own context. Essentially, I have the ball and I'm running at full speed toward the end-zone, with 20 yards to go, and you're saying I'm running too fast, and should slow down. I'm worried that slowing down could let the defenders catch me, and take me out, but you say I'm going to trip and fall. It's a tough call to stop what's working, and risk falling short because you took your foot off the gas.

 

[MrSauga]

No worries brother... it's all good. Just trying to help you understand that's all.

 

[SauronBlue]

To clarify how I even got to such a high concentration;
My plants were not doing as well as I'd like. I read on the MC thread, or somewhere on 420M, that someone increases their MC .5g/gal every other feed, until they see burnt tips, and that tells them where their plants want to be, and they back off just a bit. I tried it, and my plants got better. And better. And even better. They never showed signs of being overfed. They didn't have burnt tips. I went from going up .5g at a time, to 2g or more/gal increase, and still no burn. As I said, they finally showed the limit when I went over 2500 by accident, which was also a huge jump from the last feed, which had also been 2x the normal wait time(4 days instead of 2 between waterings), because I wanted them to go into the move(literally on a moving truck) dry and light, and then they went 2 more days before I could get them moved, set up and watered again(without my measuring equipment). They got that super heavy feed after going really dry and hungry, then sucked up all they could get when I watered them- of course they burned. Back down to 2k, and they are back to green, no more burning in the past 3 waterings at this level.

 

[Emilya Green]

My theory is that this can all be explained by carefully examining the relationships in Mulder's chart:

We can surely agree that when/if we are giving more MC than can be processed, equal percentages of various elements back up in the plant, setting up these interactions. Excess N sets up an antagonistic relationship with K. Excess Ca sets up an antagonistic relationship with K. Excess Mg sets up an antagonistic relationship with K.

It is a triple whammy and eventually it is just too much and K gets locked out first.

Reduce everything down to where it is no longer backing up and like magic, MC will clear the pipes in one watering cycle and your lockout will be gone. Sauga is right... less is more in this case.

 

[SauronBlue]

No worries brother... it's all good. Just trying to help you understand that's all.

And I'm trying to, so please don't get frustrated. If I could do something better, I want to, but if I took every piece of advice, I'd be changing my whole grow every other day. No 2 people have the same conditions, plants, environment, growing media, etc., etc., so what works for one may not work for another. I've got to ingest and understand in order to implement anything, or I'm just a robot, following orders. If I'm doing something that will cause my plants to suffer, I can only hope that you have the patience to help me understand, so I can do better. I think anyone is more willing to change when their current course is clearly not working, than when all seems clear, and you're being warned of an invisible hazard. It's because of that, not because I feel you a not credible, or knowledgeable, that I am reluctant to "fix what ain't (at least obviously) broken"

 

[SauronBlue]

Why Your Cannabis Plant Needs Potassium | The Marijuana Times

Potassium plays multiple roles in the well-being of your Cannabis, including stimulating early growth, promoting disease resistance, and improving the efficiency of water use.

www.marijuanatimes.org

Forgot to post the link up there, a couple posts back

 

[SauronBlue]

My theory is that this can all be explained by carefully examining the relationships in Mulder's chart:

We can surely agree that when/if we are giving more MC than can be processed, equal percentages of various elements back up in the plant, setting up these interactions. Excess N sets up an antagonistic relationship with K. Excess Ca sets up an antagonistic relationship with K. Excess Mg sets up an antagonistic relationship with K.

It is a triple whammy and eventually it is just too much and K gets locked out first.

Reduce everything down to where it is no longer backing up and like magic, MC will clear the pipes in one watering cycle and your lockout will be gone. Sauga is right... less is more in this case.

So, couldn't I <gasp>flush with a light feeding, which will clear the pipes in one watering, as you say? Then I could go back up to where the plants seem to thrive, with the excess washed away, and not having time to build up again before harvest? Do I need to stay at this reduced level, and risk the plants suffering for a lack of the "hot" water they were used to? I have no signs of lockout now, this is a preventative measure for a problem that's supposed to come. Do you think my plants look unhealthy?

 

[Emilya Green]

So, couldn't I <gasp>flush with a light feeding, which will clear the pipes in one watering, as you say? Then I could go back up to where the plants seem to thrive, with the excess washed away, and not having time to build up again before harvest? Do I need to stay at this reduced level, and risk the plants suffering for a lack of the "hot" water they were used to? I have no signs of lockout now, this is a preventative measure for a problem that's supposed to come. Do you think my plants look unhealthy?

I do see the beginnings of a K problem in the tips of your upper sun leaves that has to be caused by a lockout, that should not be possible at the levels you are feeding and if left to continue, will probably get worse. You have the first indications of a lockout, not a deficiency. This is the important distinction... at the level you're feeding there should be no way a deficiency can exist, without there being a lockout that is causing it. Mulder confirms that the possibility is there, knowing what we know about MC.
So, MC works differently than any other nute you have used before. This backing up that we are speaking about happens inside of the plant and only exists for one watering cycle.... you load up the plant with the dosage you have decided on, and the plant begins to process that load by stripping the amino acid shell off of each individual nutrient.
Imagine a pool of nutrient solution in the plant, part of it processed and mobile, part of it still chelated because it has not been processed yet. The plant has to use up the nutrients that have become mobile to clear things out enough to process more, but while the plant is trying to process this mobile soup of nutrients, Mulder's interactions come into play. If there is proportionately too much Ca, N and Mg in the soup, the K is locked out and becomes immobile and unavailable to the plant.
So what has to happen is that the plant has to process what you last gave it, and then move on to the next round. Each time you water you are resetting the system. Flushing is futile... for all you can do is flush the soil, which is not part of this process any longer. Giving plain water simply gives the plant ZERO nutrients for one entire watering cycle, and this will set up deficiencies in every element. The best strategy when you can see you have a lockout is to reset at a lower level immediately, and wait 2-3 days to see the effect. There is no residual with MC... when you hit the right level the lockout will be gone and the plant will be healthy again, with a few battle scars from surviving the lockout of course. Your Megacrop plants are not "used to" this larger amount you have been giving them... they are trying as best they can to survive it.