Cloning Woes

[tricome]

Hey ya'll, I could really use some help with cloning. So far, I have made 3 attempts at this, and have only had a couple of cuttings succeed. I seem to be getting the same results; the cutting form a white root "knot", and then yellow and die. This is what my current attempt looks like.

Thanx in advance for your help!

 

[Daver2]

they might be under to strong of light. clones dont need very much light .what type of light do you have.

 

[Medifreddie]

Hey Tric...I'm lookin at your pics and must say they are indeed lookin a might puny. Lots of reasons why your cuttings are doin what they are doin so I'll just try to cover the basics, based on your pics.

First, your cuttings look awfully small to begin the rooting process with. I find it's important to start with as large & obviously healthy of a cutting as possible simply because the odds are better that the larger, healthier cutting will survive the rooting process.

To also insure better success, I take a cutting with a top and at least 2 nodes below. In other words, the cutting usually has at least 2 to 3 leaves below the top. I take my cuttings from the lower part of the plant for several reasons. This area usually ends up being the shaded area of the mother/doner plant as it grows taller and these branches usually get cut off anyway. (I like a bare stalk up to 6 to 8 inches depending on the overall finishing height of the plant). The other reason is I do subscribe to the theory that cuttings taken from the lower area do better than if taken closer to the top of the plant.

Lighting- 1 or 2 -40 watt flourecent tubes are all that is needed to achieve the rooting phase. I do an 18/6 (18hours on- 6hours off- you will need a timer) Some folks go 24/7 but I like the little chickies to have a bit of a break. The difference in growth rate between 18/6 & 24/7, in my opinion isnt that noticeable and to a large degree, it varies anyway depending on which strain you are working with.

Nutrients- When I'm doin the rockwool thing, I cut the stem at a slight angle, take a little of the outer skin layer of the stock area to be in the rockwool, dip it in cloning jel, insert the stem all the way to the bottom of the cube and then gently compress the rockwool around the stem to prevent air from entering. Some folks soak there cubes in different solutions over night but I dont bother. I water the cuttings after placement with a mixture of Thrive-Alive B-1 root shock preventer(lots of different brands out there but definately get something containing B-1) and a little root developer(again lots of different brands of this stuff available also) A real simple mix. I use a 1 quart measuring container and put a cap full of each in, fill to top with water mix well and water. The cubes are in a tray so the first and only starter nutes/water mix I water enough to allow some overflow into the tray. It will eventually be absorbed back into the cubes as they dry out. Keep your cubes moist but dont overwater. If your tray is getting a lot of sitting water each time you water it is too much. Your pics indicate your cuttings might be suffering from too much saturation. It might be of help to tell you that keeping rockwool cubes at a constant & acceptable moisture content can drive you nuts. One minute they are fine and the next they are dryer than a popcorn fart. It does help to work with the larger cubes (4inch) as they will not dry out as quick as the small ones like you are using. More wiggle room. If your cuttings are allowed to dry out too many times, they can also look like your pics. They dont die but they dont grow either.

Some folks use a dome cover over the cuttings. if you are using one, try going without. Sometimes the light/dome combination can end up just stressing the cuttings. (Too much heat) The dome never worked for me. I spray with regular water a few times a day and let it go at that. One more thing. Some strains are harder to root than others. The purple strains seem to be the easiest. Perhaps your strain is just a toughie?

So, lets review: Make sure you take a healthy sizeable cutting from the lower plant area. Give them good light but not too strong (1 or 2- 40 watters- 2,3 or 4 footers is good- T-5's T-8's or T-12's are ample and can be found at any hardware store. Oh, keep the lites 6 to 8 inches from tops of cuttings. If you are doin hydro, try just doin a tray without all the automatic stuff to get the "feel" of things. In other words, do a "hands on" run.

Dont uses a lot of different nutes and be careful not to overwater but dont underwater either. B-1 and a little root development solution is all they need. Keep it simple. Now, I use an EZ-Cloner these days but still do the rockwool thing if I have no room on the Cloner. I find with the rockwool method, my cuttings always look a little more questionable than on the Cloner. They tend to develop thinner leaves, more yellowing and tend to look somewhat retarded but for the most part, they eventually come around.

Hope all this helps. I feel pretty sure the solution to your problem is in one of the things Ive covered. Cloning isnt too awfully difficult. You just have to find in which of the cloning steps the problem is developing and go from there. It might well be several things you are doing or perhaps not doing. Dont give up. Just dont try to do too much or get too obsessive. Generally with cuttings/clones it's something simple. Watering habits, what's in the water, lighting or over-nuting. Sometimes just going back to the basics and not letting the whole process overwhelm you can be the key that turns it all around...peace n good luck...MF

BTw,,,There is a good article regarding cloning in the Seeds, Cloning & Strains Posts on this site...Check it out!

 

[Hightide805]

^^ good info.. right on

 

[BWC BayArea]

I agree with a lot of what meddifred said bit here are a few things to consider. Lighting, almost any type of grow lighting can be used. The intensity is the issue. If under MH or HPS place ur cuts along the perimeter or in the shade of other plants so light isn't that intense. I've even placed white printer paper over the dome for a few days to shade the cuts from intense lighting. The dome is a keeper unless ur gonna mist them everyday a couple times or have fogger (unless u live in 80% humidity or better). For clones humidity is most important. This is where seedlings and clones differ. Cuttings without roots rely on the stomata (microscopic openings or "pores" on leaves) to keep the "plant" hydrated. The plant should be in an extremely humid environment. A humidity dome creates this environment. That's not to say u can't clone without it, but it definitely helps speed things up and I have a bout a 97% success rate at sticking clones. I rarely loose any.
He was on the money with

To also insure better success, I take a cutting with a top and at least 2 nodes below. In other words, the cutting usually has at least 2 to 3 leaves below the top.

I disagree with the comment on cuttings from the bottom. I top plants often and actually the cuttings from the tops of cannabis plants are more desirable clones in the cannabis community here in the bay area. Ask around, get multiple opinions and draw ur own conclusion from there. I wouldn't worry about nutes unless u plan on leaving them in the propagation tray for a week or 2 after roots have emerged.When U transplant, ur clones should be ready to take in the nutes as they are fed (if ur growing in anything other that soil). Another thing to consider is after u make ur cut, if it doesn't go str8 to a rooting hormone u should have a cup of water available to place fresh cuts in until dipped in rooting hormone. This prevent embolisms or air bubbles in the stem which can inhibit flow of fluids thru the xylem and phloem. Good luck. NE thing else just ask.

 

[Medifreddie]

Gee BWC Thanks for the critque. Looks like i scored around an 75-80 judging by your review. LOL Perhaps I should have included a disclaimer with my post although I thought I made it clear that my observations & suggestions were just that. My "mights" and "could be's" were merely possibilities as to potentially solving the problem(s).

The Dome- Notice I said "It didnt work for me" i didnt say anyone caught using one will have their library card privileges revoked.

Cuttings- Again, I refrained from saying that my methods are the only methods one should use. There are many different approaches & theories in regard to the taking of cuttings process as well as a host of other applications. I agree with some, others I dont, simply based on MY experiences. In either case, it doesnt make any of them absolute word.

In the cannabis growing world, no one method is etched in stone and there is no single preferred or accepted way. It's simply a matter of what works for the individual. If this were not the case, we would only have one size pot, one brand of nutes, one lite manufacturer, one growing medium choice etc.

That's the beauty of forums, particularly this site's venue. It is a place the membership community can participate in idea exchanging, method sharing and problem solving. There is no one correct way nor can there be considering the many strains and their individual reactions to different applications/methods. It is primarliy just a process of sharing personal experiences and therefore disagreement can only be viewed as merely a difference of opinion.

As for the Bay Area community, I could never get those folks to stand still long enough to ask them anything...grinnin here...peace n good luck MF

 

[BWC BayArea]

Its Good

Medfred, that post wasn't about u, lol. I was trying to make sure that it was clear which points were agreed upon and which ones other members had a difference of opinion. This way tricome (the original poster) can see this and perhaps further research for themselves to make the best decision. This further ensures a pleasant and successful first grow. Which will encourage a 2nd. Personally I want people to grow. I feel the environment and the economy need it just as must as the other patients. When its directed at u I will address u directly. Be easy.

 

[Medifreddie]

I stand corrected BWC... I thought it was you who clearly disagreed with some of my comments/opinions. I'm not sure which other members you are referring to simply because to this point, there arent any. Perhaps, in the future, you could choose your words more wisely...restin easy here...peace n good luck MF

 

[BWC BayArea]

Last time

I stand corrected BWC... I thought it was you who clearly disagreed with some of my comments/opinions. I'm not sure which other members you are referring to simply because to this point, there arent any. Perhaps, in the future, you could choose your words more wisely...restin easy here...peace n good luck MF

The other members I was speaking of haven;t posted yet. U think there's not a guy in a green house that swears by fogging/misting his clones with a machine or a plumbed system similar to that of a grocery store. Maybe he will swing by later on or Monday perhaps and post a different opinion than either of ours. Or maybe the lady that sticks her cuts directly into soil outdoors and thinks natural condensation is tops. Listen, next time I'll say it the same ifI'm so inclined. I say what I mean and said what I meant. In order to prevent myself from a thread jack NE thing else u feel u need to vent to me about, PM me MedFred.

 

[Oldsmoker1960]

oldsmoker here. only been growing for 8 months, first grow were seeds, second were clones. 3rd were clones from clones doing well. looked up a site on 420 how to clone a mj plant step by step very good info. i use cloneX gel, distlled water, 4 foot shop light, hum dome. works great for me, smoked for 35 years, only been growing for 8 months good luck.

 

[tricome]

Woah! I didn't mean to start the "clone wars". LOL Let's keep it a discussion, not an argument.
Moving forward. Thanx , everyone for the info and suggestions. I reread the cloning tutorial; (what I should have done in the first place), and the responses here. I think I've figured it out. I made a few mistakes. 1)took too small cuttings from a plant that was too young 2)put cuttings in mini cubes with holes too large for the small stems(could not pinch tight against stem) 3)let clones dry out and then over watered 4)fed clones grow nutes
Once again, thanx ya'll! I will try it again. Wish me luck, and stay chill!

 

[Medifreddie]

Great news Tric! Best of luck. My apologies to you for the back n forth stuff with BWC..Hell while Im at it, my apologies to BWC also. We can all learn from each other and that's what this site is all about...

 

[BWC BayArea]

Woah! I didn't mean to start the "clone wars". LOL Let's keep it a discussion, not an argument.
Moving forward. Thanx , everyone for the info and suggestions. I reread the cloning tutorial; (what I should have done in the first place), and the responses here. I think I've figured it out. I made a few mistakes. 1)took too small cuttings from a plant that was too young 2)put cuttings in mini cubes with holes too large for the small stems(could not pinch tight against stem) 3)let clones dry out and then over watered 4)fed clones grow nutes
Once again, thanx ya'll! I will try it again. Wish me luck, and stay chill!

No apology needed Medfred. I din't feel disrespected or take NE thing personal. I only wanted to ensure that u felt the same. I'm open for debate just PM me if that's what ur into. Get back to u when i feel like it.
Tricome there's good info here. U just have to find which style best suits ur style of growing. I look for relative easy (to grow) and consistency (same trait, same pheno, similar potency and smell) when exploring new grow techniques.