Does deep watering in soil have to rot my roots?

[SoGnotSOG321]

I have been wrapping up an inside grow of autoflower in some scrounged up materials and low powered and high powered LEDs. I used what I had on hand, which included clothe grocery shopping bags and a couple others sewn together out of some landscaping clothe..roughly 3 gallons each.
I had experience with root rot way way back on indoor before, and the RH shot thru 80%+ with this new grow so I placed plastic bags around the clothe pots. It solved the humidity problem, but left me wondering if my pots would hold to much water without 'breathing' thru the clothe bags and then start rotting. The disaster I thought might come..never appeared. I took this down last week 10 days, then this morning I dug it out. To my surprise there were thousands and thousands of minute thread roots. Towards the left hand side, notice the ball with a round hole. I had a half inch diameter cpvc pipe inserted in two places opposite of each side as far out as I could. These pipes had small 1/16th holes drilled thru them about 5 inches up starting at the bottom. The ball started at the top of uppermost holes and extended down and towards the ends middle and sides. I'm counting as a successful experiment and will be placing at least two more in each new pot I use.
I would appreciate any suggestions and welcome constructive criticism. Anyone else do this? "Do You Want To Know More?"

 

[013]

How is deep watering any different from regular watering? I water and don’t have root rot.

The pipes are adding air same as the homemade containers did before being covered in a plastic bag. Helps to elevate the bottom of any pot or container so they don’t sit in a wet tray, soil grown weed doesn't like wet feet. Even when you think your pot is dry, if you tilt it for a few minutes- water will run out, that’s from the perched water table that is created in any container in spite of weep holes. Roots grow more when the container is totally dry - they send out tiny root hairs to search for more water. The evidence is the roots at your pipes, it’s called air pruning. Roots love air but cannabis roots do not like exposure to light. The rh problems you had were probably from improper drainage, that soil lacks aeration badly. You need perlite or rice hulls. Learn the wet dry cycle to build roots in veg but in flower keep the soil moist. When top of pot is dry to 1st knuckle the bottom of a large container may still be holding gallons of water in suspension. You need help with watering tech. Emilya How to Water Potted Plant

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

Before, when I was cramming information about autos and grow types pot types etc..the root issue seemed the most important thing to solve.
I had the info, but not all the items I could use to get better results with regular top watering with no plastic bag..regular grow bags trays, dehumidifier, vent intake/exhaust..just that kinda stuff you get after your first grow. To say I was a car in park idling with the broke AC on max lol.
If I watered to saturation and runoff in my setup I believe mold would've been a serious problem then.
I used this site extensively and then joined to start seeing how much I still don't know. Ask questions and get some criticism on anything I can use constructively..its already paying off than

 

[013]

Cool no worries. Ok you can’t water to run off every time, it’s too much. Do that Emilya article then go back to other one in her signature line about how to water an autoflower or plant in large final container. More is not better, don’t water wet soil, don’t water wet plant. Learn wet dry cycle & upcan transplant etc

Keep reading & studying here.

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

If you can watch how your RH acts before after watering day night cycles as well, the amount of water required isn't maybe as high as "tilt the pot" and theres liquid..no. I checked soil moisture from top to bottom slowly with my gauge and adjusted it according to where more moisture was required. The picture is where I had really broken up the root system, I couldn't push my fingertip very far into it before.
As far as oxygen penetration of the soil with the plastic bag, not a factor just imo I am open for criticism on that, I know on the surface it's like, why didn't you just use a regular plastic pot..I couldn't get any at the time that were in my budget.
, I've seen how trying to water an indoor grow from the top will leave water drops everywhere that the fan won't dry it quickly enough before lights on or lights out and it spot burns or back to the M word lol again.
I got the major grow items now, and ready for the next one. I can deal with humidity, heat etc.. now. Thanks for replying

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

E, is the one. I am glad you knew to point me that way. You can see that E touch in a lot of grows on here

 

[013]

Take that soil gage and throw it out the window, they are useless. Seriously dude that’s a major problem. You are still overwatering big time because your soil has no aeration and you are relying on those defective meters, plus you are watering to run off.

Go stick that meter in a glass of water & see the accuracy. They are shite - no wonder your rh was 80 and your roots rotted, classic overwatering

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

Take that soil gage and throw it out the window, they are useless. Seriously dude that’s a major problem. You are still overwatering big time because your soil has no aeration and you are relying on those defective meters, plus you are watering to run off.

Go stick that meter in a glass of water & see the accuracy. They are shite - no wonder your rh was 80 and your roots rotted, classic overwatering

You misunderstood me sir, I'm not watering till runoff ever. I had that problem way back with regular pots for like house plants, back in the 80s and 90s.
Now, with the plastic bags I'm not seeing evaporation from the fabric pots filling the grow room, and my leaves dont droop after a day. The tubes have helped replace the oxygen I think, I've got a nice supplemental way to get water and air downstairs. I've harvested two other pots since then and I've never had roots this good in an indoor grow.
Its basically a thick mat from one side to the other and serious amount that spreads from where the tubes were. It's hard to get it broke up or let go of the soil mix. There's no rotting at all.
The elcheapo soil gauge I know I know right lol

 

[013]

Hey, no worries friend. I’m sure the extra oxygen would account for the roots. We see that frequently from growers using fabric pots or plastic air pots, heck from any kind of pots. Roots are drawn to the sides where there’s an abundance of air!

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

When I didn't have ventilation, do now, it was taking so much water. This was before the bags right, it was like the water just ran out of the soil straight to the bag. The sides were damp but the center out would be dry, it was alot to see a gallon of water disappear and my droopy plants This is my first with the bags, I absolutely credit them with that kind of rootball. And now with all the watering regimens I've gotten here I'll just use the bags, pull them down and let more air in there and let it catch any little runoff I might get. I have a small tipped bottle/funnel that I use so the water isnt flooding the surface..I swear, E describes it well enough that I was thinking they copied me, without the pipes lol

 

[013]

both peat & coco can turn hydrophobic - it simply means the substrate can repel or resist water. I belive it happens when a soil is not mixed and/or rehydrated properly. In the case of peat & coco, they allow it to dry out considerably so it will compress tightly for packaging. Less weight saves on shipping costs right? Even after opening the pack and fluffing the contents - it still tries to resist water but by stirring and mixing plus adding water and stirring more we can get it to rehydrate properly. Maybe parts of yours went hydrophobic but IDK?

 

[Emilya Green]

if you are not ever watering to runoff, then you are guessing how much water is needed. YOU are making that decision for the plant.

when you water, with however much water you have magically determined the plant needs, a small bit of that water is sucked up by the top spreader roots while you are watering. This is what is keeping your plants alive. Since you have not saturated the soil, gravity quickly works on that water you gave and drops it, in its entirety, down to the bottom of the container, forming a lake inside that container from about the middle of the container down to the bottom.

Since you are not judging when it is time to water by the elimination of that lake, but by dry readings with your moisture meter in the upper part of the container, that lake never dries up, and indeed, each time you come back to water some more with your magic amount, you add to the level of that water table. Your lower roots NEVER dry out, hence your constant problem with dead and rotting lower roots. You are overwatering by watering too often... not by giving too much at any one time.

The other thing you do not have a handle on is that time between waterings. It should not be the same every time, until you are well into flower. We start off in small containers, like solo cups, for a very good reason. This is so that we can water to saturation/runoff and then wait till the plants use all before we water again, and in order to do this the plants grow new roots each time you run them dry. Each time we run the plants through a wet/dry cycle, the roots get stronger and the time between waterings gets shorter and shorter. At first it will take 5 days for the plant to drain a solo cup, until finally it can do it 24 hours. When you reach this point, you know it is time to uppot. With your present system, you have no indicator of when to uppot.

When you are using your moisture meter, stick it in the soil, deeper and deeper, until you see it peg over to the right side indicating WET. This is the top of the water table and this is the only valid reading that this meter can give you... moist means nothing. Do not water again until your water table has reached the last inch of the container.

Another method is the lift the pot method... fill up a similar container with dry soil. Pick it up. Now compare this dry weight to your plant's container. The difference you feel is water weight. If your human senses can determine that there is water weight in there, it is not time to water.

Your damaged lower roots will take time to heal and your plant will not be able to drain that container after you have properly watered it to saturation, for at least 5-7 days. Since your plant is basically surviving on the top set of spreader roots, use those roots to keep the plant going with its metabolism high, but just giving a small amount of water every 3 days, soaking it in as much as you can across the entire surface of the container. Only use enough water to soak in the first 3 inches of soil, and then stop... and let the plant use up the water down below as best it can. Give a little on top every 3 days, and in about a week the bottom will have been able to be sucked up, and only then, water the entire container to saturation again.

Once the lower roots start kicking into gear, the time it takes to drain the entire container will steadily go down, and you will see the results in the plant above. Remember, you can NOT overwater by giving too much water in one session... anything extra simply flows out of the bottom as runoff. You can ONLY overwater by watering too often.

 

[Konks Dirt Empire]

^ bookmarked,

Sounds like you MacGyverized a plan and switched gears when you had a humidity problem. You said you were experimenting and researching. Are you happy with the yield? Good lesson?

I am on my first run outside using fabric bags. I found "larry hall grow bag" in a google search and went for it. Outdoors I can slosh water around and not worry about it, but I need to belly up in a chair and rotate the bags to absorb the water rather than it pool and pour down the sides of the bag. We had overnight rain and this doesn't need water, but I hope it shows the soil ball and how it sit or fits in the fabric bag after about 8 weeks of handling.

20201001_.jpg

• Konks Dirt Empire
• Oct 1, 2020

Fabric bag

I have found it would have been nice to have these fit in to a hard shell like a milk crate of sorts, also a rack and lazy susan to handle them are on my improvement list.

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

Please, I never had root problems this grow. I placed the gauge at various depths and never got close to the red zone even at the bottom. I never guessed on amount of water, and adjusted it of course.
My issue at the beginning was the bags were letting water evaporate much faster and thus increased my RH, the extra moisture was condensing on my air conditioning, ducts were actually sweating.
I'd go to check moisture levels almost bone dry top to bottom and plants drooping, this after slowly soaking it like I'd read, till it just starts to run off. Less than a day later it's not even half what it weighed.
The plant wasn't using the water, it ran down and out and evaporated into the air raising humidity and taxing my AC. I have it all sealed off now, dehumidifier adjusted accordingly, bags off and ventilation running.
I'll have a time adjusting to watering to slight runoff every few days, I dont like waiting days to water to slight runoff..then saturating it again. I have gone this way in the past and gotten root rot indoors. That really sucks on a 4 month old photo period

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

I went ahead and got some pics, (reversed them) first is flipped upside down. The other two I broke up the balls and worked out the root masses. For the size of my pots and without the extra nutrients I couldn't get, and tools lights ventilation lol wow I picked up some still got aways. This was two autos in about 3 gal pot. I have them drying right now and once I get it dried I'll have a better idea of how it worked, the tubes had knots of roots around where they ended. It could always come out better right

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

Some root poking out the bag beside the watering pipe.

My gauge to the bottom

I have been keeping it under that, just from what E describes it's like that just a the bottom and when it saturates I leave it to the plant to use it up. Check it low, if it's like that, I only give it a slow saturation on the surface if it's still like that in the morning let the plant use it up. I'm on top of this next op.

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

One more of the bottom of my bag

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

So I left out the scheduled watering last night, none this morning. I have the gauge buried in the wettest area and its halfway down from where it was.

My cupped seedlings, which are quickly vegging up got a surface spray.

My BB autos are taking off. Just did a shaft soak and some surface saturation, tomorrow I'll slowly soak the whole pot just to runoff.

I talked with my wife about this, because I'm more confident in the way I've been advised, to change my grow accordingly. We both agreed that from your results that less of my way couldn't hurt when I might get 4 zips instead of 8 or more using better proven methods. Some very fine people here, thank you for caring and sharing GG

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

Ok, I got these two BB autos on it. Hopefully this will bring 'fame and fortune..and I'll thank you all'

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

The adults are still moist at the bottom so no water, seedlings got 60ml in tight one at a time. Nothing came out so I did another 60ml around the outside of the first 60ml. There was runoff from the sides and a little off the bottom after the second 60ml. It didn't soak the bags completely thru and thru and my diy funnel runs slow enough to get the desired amount without flooding across the top and running right off the sides.