Dubnation's - Indoor/Outdoor - Winter Grow Journal - 2016/2017

[dubnation]

Winter experiment: Indoor Veg/Outdoor Flower (Southern California)

Quick overview/goals:

I've had the great benefit as a beginner of having a farmer give me his 12" babes after 6 weeks of veg and then I've been keeping them outside in backyard in 10-gal fabric pots. The first grow yielded about 3 ounce per plants. Mix of Skywalker and Deadhead. Was very blessed with this grow as a noob.

Now I'm curious to grow from seed to bud. I have some very old seeds from a friend that I want to test out. My goal is to have yearlong grow. But I want to work the kinks out now before the real outdoor season kicks off next year.

Appreciate any feedback, guidance etc...

Info below:

What strain is it?
5 White Russian (Serious Seeds) - Hybrid
5 Chronic (Serious Seeds) - Hybrid
1 Mekong High (Dutch Passion) — Sativa Dom
1 Special Queen #1 (Royal Queen) — Sativa Dom


Is it in Veg or Flower stage?

Beans soaking and going to germinate in soil once popped. Won't know how many will successfully germinate but my plan is to:

Veg half for 8 weeks in tent then take outdoors to flower for the winter.

The other half I plan to veg extra long and see how my tent will hold until after the new year. Again, I'm testing out my methods so I can have a solid 2-3 harvests next year.

Indoor or outdoor?

Indoor for veg. Outdoor for flower. I have amazing privacy on my property, so I'm not worried about height or security.

Soil or Hydro?
Root Organics with coco to start
Supersoil (homemade, been cooking for over 45 days) for final pots

If soil... What size pot?
Will start germinating in solo cups.
Then transplant to 1-gal for rest of veg
Last transplant to 10-gal fabric pots for rest of life outdoors

Size of light?
2' long T5, 2 blubs


Type and strength of ferts used? Since just starting, I'm opening to suggestions, but have used the following before:

Starting off: Superthrive and Maxicrop

Veg:
Unsure yet.. Maybe FF? Any recommendations?
Protek + Neem Oil

Flower:
FF Big Bloom, FF Tiger Bloom
Molasses
Compost Tea

Will post more once/if the beans germinate. Fingers crossed... these are old seeds.

 

[dubnation]

So good news!

All 5 White Russians have sprouted. Took 3 days for 3 and then the 4th day under dome the other 2 have popped! Still keeping the dome and RH very high for now. In darkness.

The bad news...

Only 2 of the 5 Chronic have popped. BUT the 2 that have popped (please see picture below) it looks like the taproot is growing the wrong way. I will research how to fix this on the forums, but if anyone has a verified fix I can do, I really appreciate it.

The super old Royal Queen Special Queen #1 still hasn't shown anything. Soaked for 36 hours, then moved to paper towel now for 24 hours. No signs of anything... Gave this seed a small misting with SuperThrive. Hope that will help a bit.

 

[dubnation]

OK, so after reading up a bit, I decided to just put a tiny little bit of soil, loosely on top of these two with taproots growing up. Then misted them with a little water. Put dome back on and praying they adjust and go downwards.

Still very impressed that these old seeds all 5/5 White Russian are good! Now praying for the Chronic to work.

 

[dubnation]

Another question I keep finding competing thoughts on. LIGHTS.

I'm using CFL's because this will purely be a germination/veg tent. When should I turn the lights on? I read that taproots will be damaged. But as soon as they pop I should have lights on. The problem is only half have popped.

Wait or turn the lights on now for the 5 that have popped?

Thanks!

 

[Gorgar]

Hi dub, subbed in. I'm not sure you've got enough light...even for just vegging. The T5s are fine for now but you might need more light in the future. I'd post in the FAQ section (or whatever it's called) and get some opinions there.

Are you sure that the taproot is growing UP? I have not personally had that happen to me and always had the understanding that the root knew which direction was DOWN. I don't pay much attention to whether the seeds point end up or down, and the roots always seem to find their way. The only thing that I can add is sometimes the sprout will emerge with it's helmet still on...but I have not personally experienced it.

Good luck!

 

[dubnation]

Thanks Gorgar. I have the lights on now, and for my purposes, all I'm doing is a germ/veg tent and then move outdoors. But yes, I may buy another fixture soon, maybe 4 bulbs T5 setup. I've been reading the FAQs all the time lol. Trying to soak up as much info as possible. Just so many methods. With the lights on it gets to upper 80s inside. I put a fan in to intake cooler air and opened the top vent to vent out the hot air.

Since this is more of an experiment, I'm willing to try different gemination and veg techniques, but limited since I only have 1 tent. I want to get my methods right for a good outdoor season 2016.

Not too concerned about the taproot now thanks to you and a few friends, just freaked out a bit this morning. I'm sure nature will take its course and have it turn down. Just didn't see the cotyledon but did see the taproot. If it still grows this way, I may turn the jiffy pellet upside down and cut a hole for the helmet to make its way out. But that's a last resort.

 

[MagicJim]

Hi dub....if you have a tap root up it should turn 180 degrees. You're golden with those I see. If you get a lot of stretch here towards the light and substantial inter nodal length, you'll know it's not enough. Growers always want more light.

Also make sure light it fairly close to seed tops but not so close that they would feel heat. If you hold your hand under the T5s and hot raise slightly. I'm under LED so not too helpful here. I have used CFLs about a year ago.

Cheers

 

[dubnation]

Many thanks Jim. I'm subbed to your grow! I have the lights about 15" away now and will observe. I've read to keep them as close as possible too and agree that I may need to lower as well as upgrade. Will keep observing and adjust accordingly.

Now what about humidity for the new seedlings? Inside tent is about 50% RH. Inside the dome is 99% RH.

When I move them to solo cups, I was thinking of using plastic water bottles, cut in half, to form a dome over the young seedlings until they get their first set of true leaves. Then remove and begin the veg process with 1/2 nutes etc..

 

[Heirloom]

Welcome dubnation.

You really don't need to over think the humidity. They will do fine in 10-90% RH. The only time I worry about humidity under a dome is when cloning. You would have been just fine putting the seeds in the 10 gallon pots on the shady side of the house until they had a few nodes. They know what to do. They need to breathe, to transpire water and get nutrients flowing.

I've seen tap roots get confused, but not grow straight up. Either the head is stuck under ground and pushing the wrong end out, or you confused the ends. Small possibility that the baby was born with out a head and it looks like a root. Jim, think about D's 'Buzz No Head Gear'. If it IS a tap root, and continues to try to grow up, you'll have to cull it. Odd though, they have special mechanisms that force downward growth. If it is screwy, it's genetic.

Your light will do fine for a week. But they'll need more, or they will start stretching something crazy....eventually. Basically germinate and get them out into sun/shade ASAP. They can languish forever under low light.

Feel free to stop by my journal, ask questions or get my attention if you think you need it. I'm sub'd to a lot of journals too and it could be a week before I get back around and find you've had an issue you need help with.

 

[dubnation]

Thanks Heirloom! I'll be dropping by your journal soon.

I was advised to get T5 2ft 2bulb system but that only has 5,000 lumens.

I guess for germinating it's ok, but I want to veg and veg well. I know lumens isn't the best measure rather the PAV? But for now, I think if I used the 4,000 lumens/sq ft calculation, I will need 8 x 4,000 or 32,000.

I will add on another T5 2ft 12 bulb that does 20,000 lumens. Giving me 25,000 lumens so just barely short.

Or should I scrap this 2bulb set and go for two 8 bulbs fixtures at 15,000 lumens each for a total of 30,000? I'm trying to be cost conscious but also invest for the future grows.

Thanks for any advice here!

 

[Heirloom]

I know lumens isn't the best measure rather the PAV?

It's PAR. Photosynthetically Active Radiation. Referring to and measuring the light frequency bands that plants use for photosynthesis. Lumens is great for worrying about kitchen lighting. Lumens is a measurement of how intense the human eye perceives a light source. When charted you see that what the eye reacts to and what plants use are nearly opposites of each other.

Get what you are comfortable with in the pocket book, quality and in intensity. You'll learn and upgrade as you go. Look around at what other growers are doing. I run a 680W 8 bulb 5000k 5ft T5 for germ/early veg. In my journal, when I update indoors, it's the only floro fixture I use and covers 4 1020 trays on my veg shelf. The rest is LED and CFL in tents.

 

[dubnation]

Today was a good day!

9/12 have successfully germinated and popped. Some further along than others.

All the White Russians are much farther ahead. Here's my experiment:

- WR1: seed to soil directly. Once popped, I placed her with a plastic bottle dome
- All other WR from seed to jiffy pellets and just placed in soil today.
- WR2: placed with plastic bottle dome
- WR3-5: no dome

All relatively same height. No major difference between soil and jiffy with these.

Chronic:
Same set up CH1 direct to soil, all others to jiffy pellets
They are far behind the WR so still in original station, all with domes.

Mekong High (MH) has popped and barely showing out of soil but I can see she shed her shell under ground. MH was planted direct into soil.

Special Queen #1 is still in paper towel. It will have been 36 hour soak, 24 hour paper towel with no signs of tap root. I am thinking about giving her a good razor blade slice after another 24 hours and then throw her in soil and let nature takes its course. However if anyone has other suggestions let me know.

Placed an oscillating fan as well and lowered the lights to about 6" from seedlings.

Again, this is an experiment since there are so many methods to germinate etc... Next time I may try rapid rooter, but direct to soil seems to be just fine IMO.

I've already ordered more lights so the veg state can really take off. Will be a total of 25,000 lumens once combined.

PLEASE know that I'm 100% down for ANY comments, suggestions, advice, critique, jokes etc... Learning/growing is much more fun with all of you here.


The full set up: Solo Cup (some covered some not) all WR and MH. Jiffy are still CH

To cover vs not

Direct to soil:

Chronic still waiting to really pop:

 

[dubnation]

So as I anticipated, the domes don't make a difference once they pop. Like all you jedi masters told me. LOL. But I wanted to try it side by side to see. All of them are out of domes and into soil except for 1....

Also, I may be convinced to go straight into soil, though the jiffy pellets worked well, the soil is doing just as good and seems to shed the cotyledon faster through soil.

Germination Update:
9 of 10 Serious Seeds seeds have popped. (5 White Russians doing well! 4 Chronic have popped nicely, but one may be dormant)
Mekong High still hasn't come out of soil, but I know she has a taproot
Special Queen #1 is still in paper towel, going on 36 hours now. I squeeze her a little and I think I may have opened her up a bit. Hope her taproot shows soon so I can get a few Sativas into this experiment.

The soil is still moist so I will let them dry out a bit before watering.

My filtered tap water PH has been tested at 7. Will test during first nute feeding probably next week when the true leaves show (right?). Going to use the FF Grow Big (since I already have Tiger and Big Bloom). Going to stay in the family for this experiment. Though with the first use of super soil, I don't know if I need any fert at all during the flowering stage. We will see...

 

[Gorgar]

Hey dub, what happened to the upside-down taproot(s)?

 

[dubnation]

Hey dub, what happened to the upside-down taproot(s)?

Thanks for asking Gorger. She turned down as you expected. I sprinkled a tiny bit of soil on top just to keep the taproot in a dark environment. She's doing great. Just waiting for her sister to pop now. Last one of the Chronics to pop.

 

[Gorgar]

Glad to hear it. My first grow I started 2 SSH (actually 3, but 1 did not sprout) and started in the complete dark. When they first sprouted I kept them in the dark and they were like a tan or pale yellow and I thought they were taproots until I looked at them closely. I got them under a light and they turned green fast.

 

[dubnation]

Day 5 from soaking to this. Decided to move all the jiffy pellets (popped or not) into solo cups.

It's strange, the Mekong High showed taproot during soak and I thought she would pop quickly. Maybe 1 day behind the Chronic seeds which were 1 day behind the White Russians to sprout.

The two who haven't are still covered. Should I keep it on?

And lastly all 5/5 White Russians:

 

[Gorgar]

The two who haven't are still covered. Should I keep it on?

Sure, why not? I'd give them a few more days to see if anything developed before I pulled the plug on them. Just make sure that the media stays moist.

If nothing happens, pull the pellet apart and see if a taproot ever developed. My first go with the failed seed showed a bit of a root sticking out of the seed. But I think that I probably did not keep the Rapid Rooter wet enough.

One or two of your White Russians seem a little too spindly at this stage, but that's probably due to the lack of light at the beginning. If they start to lean when the leaves develop, support them with a toothpick or something until they're strong enough. If needed, you can transplant them deeper in your bigger pot.

 

[dubnation]

Thanks Gorger! I will keep the two who haven't popped very moist, but at this stage, it will almost be 7 days. But not giving up hope. I guess I won't have any real Sativas this grow. = (

I moved the seedlings closer to the light also last night so hopefully they don't get too tall and start growing some nodes!

For transplant, I'm thinking:

Solo cups for 2-3 weeks ---> 3 gallon pots (continue vegging) and then ---> 10 gallon fabric pots for outdoors rest of flower.

Thoughts?

 

[Gorgar]

For transplant, I'm thinking:

Solo cups for 2-3 weeks ---> 3 gallon pots (continue vegging) and then ---> 10 gallon fabric pots for outdoors rest of flower.

Thoughts?

Well, I won't be a lot of help here because I grow differently. I've been growing indoors using coco and transplanting into AirPots (I think a little under 3 gallons), although I'm now trying 2 gallon Hempys.

Your time in the Solo cups seems reasonable to me, and I usually transplant only once near the 3 week mark. Just make sure that you have decent root development. After that, for your planned growing style, I don't have a clue so maybe someone else can chime in.