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Homogenizing CCO

Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
I've been listening to, watching videos of and reading the work of Dr. Alexey Peshkovsky and I'll try to summarize his work here and how it might apply to us home DIYers. I'm new to this so forgive my ignorance and please let me know of any errors.

Homogenizing your end product CCO in water breaks down all the particles to smaller sizes. The process, as you can imagine, increases bio-availability, and other pharma products show a 5 to 7 times increase.

The trick is, once you have your CCO, carrier and surfactant mixed together, you add water and mechanically SHEAR the material, with vibration or rotation, to smaller and smaller particle sizes. There are different levels of emulsification... macro and nano.

The stuff we make without further treatment is MACRO if we mixed it in water, over 1,000nm (1 micron) particle size. NANO is <300nm. Once you get to <100nm, your product becomes translucent, since light waves are 400nm they simply wash over the particles with little disturbance.

You can buy equipment that will take your product down to <20nm. I found a hand held unit looking like a dremel for $170. The mixing bits are $300 and up (google "rotor homogenizers"). Complete packages with a stand and control box, motor and bit are usually >$1,000. One filter step is required after mixing to remove any particles that could have come from the mixing bit... this can be done with a syringe filter or buchner filter process.

The advantages are:
  • 5 to 7 times (?) increased bioavailability (how much and how fast the active ingredient is delivered)
  • less oil carrier and surfactants needed (water becomes your main carrier at 85%, oil and surfactants total around 10%)
  • stable (shelf life is many months)
  • easy dosing (more uniform absorption, not as dependent on fullness or levels of fat in stomach)
Dr. Peshkovsky was asked in a presentation last year what the typical experience is using his suggested methods, he said onset at 15 minutes, 3 hour high, consistently.

Companies are now experimenting with water extractions, and this is most likely part of that process. This method probably precludes using an LCT oil to extract with, it would be too much oil.

My take away from this... too expensive! lol What if I modified my own dremel bit and see what size the particles are when done? How would I measure particle size to do this testing?

Does this mean I could take just the resin heads from say dry sifting or water hash, use the proportions of water, oil and surfactant as noted above, then just BEAT IT, Beat It, beat it.....?
 
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Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
I found two ways to measure oil particle size...

Video Particle Analyzer - The test solution is passed through a thin gap while a video camera captures it, software then counts and measures the sizes of each droplet. VERY EXPENSIVE!

Stokes Law - Using a formula you can estimate the oil particle size by how long they take to rise a specific distance in water. This chart shows sizes 20 to 60 microns.

1792017



Um, we need to get down below 1!

Then there's this...
"Very small particles, such as those of 10 microns and less in diameter, do not rise according to Stokes’ Law (or hardly at all) because the random motion of the molecules of the water is sufficient to overcome the force of gravity and therefore they move in random directions. This random motion is known as Brownian Motion. "
I would at least like to try measuring with Stokes Law a run of everclear CCO after evaporation and before adding surfactant to get a baseline, then try various mixing strategies with a dremel and see what I can get.

It seems cannabis beverages made with this technique are just around the corner, if not here already.

Multiple places say that the bioavailability for common edibles can be 6% and highly variable. With this nano emulsion method 75%! My thought is ANY reduction in particle size will produce a better product.
 

Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
Came across this today, which basically says nano emulsions are a non-starter... particles that tiny can accumulate in the body and pose unknown risks. So, how many cannabis roads lead to blockades? Lots of them! Once again I have to remind myself to KISS... Keep It Simple Silly! :)

THE RISKS OF EMULSIFIYING AND ENCAPSULATION WITH "NANOTECHNOLOGY"
Unlike Sproutly's licensed method of water-soluble delivery, many current market participants are using encapsulation and emulsion technologies to deliver water-compatible cannabis components in beverages. The principals of one private Canadian company named Trait which is working on alternate delivery technologies but does not have anything currently market ready (unlike Sproutly) recently wrote an editorial in the publication The Province. The key takeaway from their piece was that there are serious questions about nanotechnologies used to infuse beverages with oil-based molecules:

As companies work to develop new cannabinoid-infused beverages, several are considering the use of "nanotechnologies" as a method to produce these new drinks. Their interest is founded in the hope that nanotechnology can address a major problem in creating cannabinoid-infused beverages: like oil and vinegar in a salad dressing, fat-soluble cannabinoids simply don't mix well with water-based beverages.

There is growing concern, however, that the use of nanotechnology to mix fat-soluble cannabinoids into beverages may pose significant health risks to consumers. For instance, nanotechnologies can cause, among other things, brain damage, immune-system disruption, and toxicity to organs and tissues through the bioaccumulation of non-targeted nanoparticles and the cargo they deliver.

In fact, the European Union's Scientific Committee on Emerging and Newly Identified Health Risks has expressed concern about nanotechnology's unknown biodegradability (meaning the nanoparticles may accumulate in and never leave the body) and the ability of nanoparticles to pass through the blood-brain barrier and into the brain and other organ tissue, stating "there remain many unknown details about the interaction of nanoparticles and biological systems." Similarly, the insurance division of Allianz Group (the European financial services giant) has stated the "inherent risks to product recall, food and beverage safety and third-party liability (of nanotechnologies) are enormous."
 

panacea

Well-Known Member
I was interested in this topic a few months back but strayed away from due to my lack of Knowledge, you my friend are farther beyond then i made it, Lol . I read somewhere that Lecithin will emulsify into water , so my first experiment with was to try and get water to mix with lecithin. I put a tablespoon of lecithin into a cup of water and placed into my 900watt nutribullit for 2-3 mins, after letting it sit for awhile the lecithin still separated from the water. I am thinking the blender was not powerful enough to emulsify efficiently or lecithin is not a surfactant .
 

Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
the lecithin still separated from the water.
I learned that as well!... and dug deeper. Lecithin by itself is insoluble in water, which is what our experiments showed us. However, when in contact with OTHER oils, it wraps around those particles of oil as they get mixed and broken down to smaller sizes, then PREVENTS them from recombining.

I lack the training to describe that properly but it makes sense to me now :)

So I guess the next experiment for you and I to go running to the kitchen to try, is mix something like vegetable oil and lecithin together, then add to water, shake it up good and see what happens... you go first! lol
 

panacea

Well-Known Member
Lol, Well i have as we speak a 100ml parts EVOO + 25ml parts of liquid sunflower lecithin + 1ML of CCO.. Not sure if i want to waste that medicine by TRYING to emulsify in water so i will mix a 50/50 EVOO+ Lecithin with warm bath double boiler method to get it to mix together then add the water and mix with a good emulsifier attachment to my Beater to see where that goes., lol.. Let ya know what happens in a day or so.
 

panacea

Well-Known Member
Just tried mixing 50+ mls of canola oil and lecithin together , mixed it in with very warm water and emulsified it. It actually did not separate yet , i will let it sit to see what it does. if this works i will be making some wicked drinks for the weekend on the River, LOl.

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Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
What's it taste like?! From what I've read it takes a high percentage of lecithin, 50% or more, to get it to stabilize in water with just normal kitchen mixing, and that it tastes bitter/soapy. The smaller the particles get (faster and more aggressive mixing), the less lecithin is needed.

Imagine a modified dremel bit, with ridges filed vertically near the bottom, mixing at 35,000 rpm :)

Each mixing method will have a sweet spot, which is the smallest percent of lecithin to keep it stable for x amount of time (hrs, days?). So I can imagine a line of small containers, each with a different percent of lecithin, mix them all up one after another and let them sit. Let's say we want a stable mix to last one day... after 24 hours the container with the least lecithin and still stable is the formula going forward.

Your hand mixer with the emulsifying attachment will have a different ideal mix than my dremel mixing, I'm assuming!
 
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panacea

Well-Known Member
Yes, And mind you this was a half -ass experiment, Nearly 24 hrs later and i have a bit of a foam on the surface and spots in the mix where this is separation, not settlement thou. i also used way more canola oil then lecithin, and never mixed with a powerful enough tool or for a very long time. So i do see potential here. Once i have more time i will dabble into this some more.
 

freed

Well-Known Member
Long, long time ago
I heard about using ultrasonic jewelry cleaners with lecithin and vitamin c, to better absorb it for health issues (if your thinking of trying this for health, please read about it, don’t trust my memory).
But iirc the “thinking” was nano particle sizes.
Just sayin’
:thumb:
 
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Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
ultrasonic jewelry cleaners with lecithin and vitamin c
Thanks for this! I've been deep diving the last few hours and have lots of new knowledge. Someone with expertise here PLEASE correct anything if you can get through it :)
  • "liposomal x" (replace x with your favorite supplement) IS a thing. The reason you don't hear about it often is that in our modern, high volume, low cost consumer economy, we almost NEVER see ANYthing with a short shelf life. From a manufacturer perspective I don't blame them... why invest in ultrasonic/shearing technology when a product will separate sitting on the shelf for a few days. You can't reap the absorption benefits if you buy a beverage and just shake it up by hand before drinking it! You WILL see it, however, in pharma products where fast delivery and short shelf life is common.
  • lecithin is an interesting substance... it is BOTH oil and water soluble. It's the TYPE of lecithin that makes a difference... dry (granules, powder) or liquid.
    • dry is oil-less, dissolves best in water... this is primarily for water-in-oil mixes (water particles suspended in oil)
    • liquid is oily, dissolves best in oils... this is primarily for oil-in-water mixes (oil particles suspended in water)
How does this relate to CCO and getting it into a liposomal state for more efficient/predictable absorption? As @freed hinted at above, some ULTRASONIC CLEANERS (UCs) will create a mix with sufficient power to produce liposomes!

Liposomes are much larger compared to nano particles but much smaller than kitchen mixing. Since it's so widespread in pharma for drug delivery I'd say the mechanics have been sufficiently tested.

There are different grades of UCs, apparently you want one that uses a higher quality "stack transducer" and is at least 60 watts. Check out the model P4810 UC, at $110 you can process 1 to two liters per hour.

I've yet to test this, but so far I gathered this for three different scenarios:
  • For mixing CCO in your favorite beverage (oil in water), mix your CCO, liquid lecithin and carrier oil for one pass, then a second pass pour that into water and mix again. When ready, pour into your beverage and drink it. Water should be the majority of your mix, 70-80%. The percent of lecithin should be 5-10% of the carrier oil weight. (see note #1)
  • For EVOO or other oil infusions (oil-in-oil), use the UC as is, then consume. Use liquid lecithin at an even smaller percent, <5%.
  • For CCO alone, because it's very thick, I would mix in the UC before evaporating off your solvent. Apparently heat will keep the liposomes stable for a longer period (?).
note 1 - I've seen conflicting info on this... from a manufacturer of a nano mixing machine they said liposomes need 70-80% lecithin which is too high and the reason why you NEED their machines. From a manufacturer of an ultrasonic cleaning machine they say 5-10% lecithin. I'd say there's a bit of spin going on there, perhaps more so about the very high end expensive nano machine. Lucky for us testing is SIMPLE... use a few different percentages and simply WATCH how long it takes to visibly separate.

This is just SCREAMING for some study, and in a few months I'll be ready to rumble :)
 

panacea

Well-Known Member
I will be purchasing one of these ASAP. I produce lots of oil for individuals using EVOO + Liquid sunflower lecithin + CCO. If there is anyway that this will enhance bio-availability to help heal more efficiently then i will be all over this. I will do a tad bit research first.:thumb:
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Good grief gentlemen..... let me catch my breath.

panacea, I see your interest is shared by another. :3: This is good news for the community at large, IMHO.

Wow guys! Yes, I’ll be looking over your shoulder.

Liposomal encapsulation, to my understanding, can’t be done with an ultrasonic cleaner. You get a product similar, but not quite.

However, I’d bet my life it’ll come close enough for our purposes. :4:
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
after letting it sit for awhile the lecithin still separated from the water. I am thinking the blender was not powerful enough to emulsify efficiently or lecithin is not a surfactant .
Try adding a drop or three of Castile soap or yucca extract to the mix?
 

Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
Liposomal encapsulation, to my understanding, can’t be done with an ultrasonic cleaner. You get a product similar, but not quite.
I'm seeing that as well, but the benefit is apparently still there. From one of the huge number of results you can find on the subject:

"...the simple ultrasonic treatment of lecithin and vitamin C does not make liposomes. I have reviewed the sophisticated testing of two different such preparations. However, the ultrasonic treatment does result in a legitimate emulsion, which is absorbed much better than just regular vitamin C. However, that is just absorption into the blood, not enhanced uptake inside the cells, as with liposomes. So, such a preparation can certainly help the sick patient, and probably more effectively than just regular..."
I guess a more accurate name for our purposes would be simply "emulsions" and I should drop the "liposome" description.

So to try to summarize this better as I learn more, the DIY mixing methods we have available for home use produce emulsions... the more your ingredients are mixed, sheared or sonicated, etc, the smaller the particles and better bioavailability can be achieved.
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
If a person experiments with different mixes, is there a quick/easy to determine which will be best in terms of maintaining a prolonged mixture/emulsification? Placing samples of each in a centrifuge, perhaps? I've noticed that small ones are relatively inexpensive (not cheap, lol - but some of them can be purchased for less than the price of a lid).

Or would a 15 minute spin at several thousand RPM be likely to separate the ingredients regardless and, therefore, not be a good indicator of progress?
 

Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
best in terms of maintaining a prolonged mixture/emulsification?
Great question! For a oil-in-water (OiW) mix, everything I've seen points to just letting it sit and time/compare the separations. But certainly a centrifuge could speed that up instead of waiting for hours or days. Imagine a centrifuge on a timer with adjustable rpms... you could easily compare mixes and get repeatable results!

For oil-in-oil mixes (OiO) it could be even more helpful because the separation would be much longer and not as visible without one.

Something else to think about before OiW testing. We know the cannabis oil, carrier oil and lecithin will bind pretty well... it's those oil ingredients we want to emulsify into water that's the important part. Can't the cannabis oil be left out until the mixing ratios are perfected for your specific mixing technology before doing a "real" run? Same thing for OiO? I mean, it's not likely when we look at a cup of stuff separating that we'll be able to say, "hey look, there's the cannabis oil right below the lecithin and on top of the olive oil!!" lol This kitchen warrior is not ready to get into column chromatography... just yet anyway! :)
 
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