How much space/lighting for 3 short sativas? - Newb needs education to start grow

[Weaselcracker]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

The other option-If you can borrow a 400 W HPS you will be happy with the results in the closet space and will save money for now. You will need a vent fan pushing hot air out at the top. At the bottom of the space put an air vent so that when the fan at the top goes on -cooler air is sucked in from the bottom, or from outside depending on your outside temperatures. I wouldn't bother with four computer fans for that space if you end up using hps. Hps makes more heat. The fan also provides recirculating fresh air. You can buy a thermostat which plugs into the wall and then you plug your vent fan into the thermostat. A fan rated for about 70 ft.³ per minute will be good, such as one found in a bathroom ceiling. Are you worried about odor control? I am assuming that the 2 x 4 in the closet is for hanging clothes from?. Can you just remove it? Also, whichever lighting you use , you will need a movement fan. This is something like a regular floor fan blowing air and oscillating back-and-forth. You need that to circulate the air in the room a bit and mainly to keep the plants stems strong. Otherwise they will grow very weak and spindly. Get yourself an extra bulb if you can. You will also need a timer for the lighting, and you will need to lightproof everything at some point so that it is completely dark in the off (night) period.
And this is just the beginning. There is quite a lot of work involved trying to grow a plant indoors as you can see. Growing outdoors you have nature on your side and don't have to try to make the environment yourself. But growing indoors lets you control things more precisely.

 

[Happyjoy]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

hey weaselcracker, thnks for the advice.

for odor control. i bought this on ebay.

its activated carbon sheets. i cant afford a carbon scrubber. so for 10$ i figured this was good for me. ill find some way of using it in between the outtake fan. i read a bunch of different ideas online of how to do it. i already had bought my computer fans a few days ago, and was just going to pop one of these sheets over the computer fan where its sucks the air out. but if im going to be needing a more serious vent fan, i may have to change that plan.

btw, i dont know if its important, but the temperature as of now, without any ligthing, in the grow space, is around between 60-70 F.


im not sure exactly what type of vent fan and thermostat ur spekaing about. can u give me a link to an example?

the 2/4 is supporting a storage shelf on top of it, but i can move the 2/4 and shelf higher up to give me more room.

thnks. ill get to building and completeting the room early this week hopefully

 

[Weaselcracker]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

I'm in canada and I'm guessing you're not so I won't link to whatever I got but.... Maybe best to google - plug in thermostat with outlets - or -inline thermostat, and you should get on the right track. I had to wire mine, but basically you want a thermostat that plugs in to the wall, though you'll want to plug it into an extension cord so you can locate it whatever spot you want on the closet.
Vent fans here are rated in Cfm- cubic feet per minute. Your closet is about 40 cubic feet and you want a fan that can exchange all the air in about 3 minutes or less- so about 15 Cfm minimum I suppose would work but higher Cfm is probably better and definitely won't hurt. A vent fan is made so it can attach to vent pipe on each end of it. 4",6", and 8" are the common sizes here. A four inch vent fan is probably what you'll want.
Does this answer your question?

 

[Happyjoy]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

I'm in canada and I'm guessing you're not so I won't link to whatever I got but.... Maybe best to google - plug in thermostat with outlets - or -inline thermostat, and you should get on the right track. I had to wire mine, but basically you want a thermostat that plugs in to the wall, though you'll want to plug it into an extension cord so you can locate it whatever spot you want on the closet.
Vent fans here are rated in Cfm- cubic feet per minute. Your closet is about 40 cubic feet and you want a fan that can exchange all the air in about 3 minutes or less- so about 15 Cfm minimum I suppose would work but higher Cfm is probably better and definitely won't hurt. A vent fan is made so it can attach to vent pipe on each end of it. 4",6", and 8" are the common sizes here. A four inch vent fan is probably what you'll want.
Does this answer your question?

Ah ok, I understand now. The thermostat works kind of like a timer. When the heat gets to 'x' temperature, it turns on the electricity and whatever is connected (the fan) turns on.

Are u sure two of these fans won't do the job? The specs sounds right
DC 12V 3Pin 4.7" 12cm 120X120X25mm PC Case System CPU Cooling Cooler Fan
Each fan is 120 CFM. Will they also not be sufficient for a 300W LED setup if I did go that route?

 

[Weaselcracker]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

The specs on that fan sounds fine. Keep in mind that generally for a computer fan you will have to go find an appropriate 12 volt power source and wire it to the fan. That's fairly easily done- I usually go to a second hand store or something like that to dig through a bin of used dc/ac adapters. Also keep in mind how you are going to mount the fan into whatever opening you create in your grow room. This can be a bit of a hassle though it isn't a real problem it just takes time and isn't as convenient as a fan that just plugs in and is already built to attach vents to.
I use a computer fan for my drying chamber - the main advantage is they are free. I just go to the recycling place and get a few from computers, and the power supplies are usually free or very cheap as well

 

[Happyjoy]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

ok. as far as the fan, i think ill be fine, ill be making the walls to the room with plywood or ocb pannels, so itll be easy to cut out a square for each fan and just put it in the wall.
-do you think the activated carbon papers will do the job? i figured i would cover the intake (or outake) of the exhaust fan with it...

some new questions came up.
-does the room need to be completely light proof also during the veg stage?
im asking because my fans wont arrive for a few weeks (free internation shipping with ebay from china ), so i need to think of a way to keep the room cool till the intake and exhaust fans arrive.
i figued, that if the room doesnt need to be lightproof during veg, that i could put in a nice big oscilating fan in the room, and leave the door open, and hope that that should keep the temps down.

if the lightproof thing is an issue at veg, i have another option, but it brings up another question. ive been considering this option anyway:
can i veg the plants outside no under the sun for a few weeks, and then move them inside under lights, even though the light cycle will be different?
if i do that, then i wont need to worry about fans till they arrive in the mail. right now we have 13 hrs of light/11 hours of darkness outside. (the actual plants will probably get 12/12 since they wont get sun as soon as the sun rises).
so whats better: nice pure sunlight for vegging, but only 12/12. or an artificial light (CFL, or HPS, as im not sure yet, i should know by tommorow or tues latest, if ill be going CFL or HPS) for vegging on 18/6?

thanks again everyone for all your help! its really making a big difference!

 

[MrRudeSnowman]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

-does the room need to be completely light proof also during the veg stage?

yes, no light can get in during dark period.

- can i veg the plants outside no under the sun for a few weeks, and then move them inside under lights, even though the light cycle will be different?

Not a good idea for many reasons. Mixing light sources can provoke hermie as all feminized seeds are in danger of that.

And just a tip - always go HPS or LED from day one, CFL is least effective of all (for starters).

 

[Weaselcracker]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

I have to disagree with snowman- just based on my experience. Sorry- I hate to disagree with anybody, and maybe you've had different experiences, but to me it seems that during veg the light leaks issue isn't as important. I've been very lax about what goes on with the lighting in veg for years and generally haven't had problems. For one thing- I do have light leaks in my veg room because the door doesn't shut 100%. Another thing- I sometimes go in there during the dark period and bring in light, thought I try not to do that very much. Also- I sometimes I put a cfl going 24/7 for cloning, while the veg plants in the same room have 18/6. Other times I don't have the cfl. None of this, along with many power outages which screw up my manual timer cycle, has caused any problems. I know- it all sounds very unprofessional, but it is what it is, and it's working fine so I haven't had to fix it.
During flowering though- No light leaks.
Relating to the same the same thing- I couldn't see a problem with having them outdoors and then bringing them indoors. They just don't seem as fussy about the light schedule in veg, in my experience anyway.

 

[Happyjoy]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

Relating to the same the same thing- I couldn't see a problem with having them outdoors and then bringing them indoors. They just don't seem as fussy about the light schedule in veg, in my experience anyway.

Ok thnks
This next question is probably a hard one to answer but who knows.maybensomeone here has tried both and has an answer:
What dyou guys think would be a better option for vegging:
12/12 outdoors light coming from the sun
Or
18/6 light indoor from CFL (or maybe the HPS

I'm guessing the 12/12 light outdoors will make them start flowering early though, which might be good in my case wanting small plan Rs or might not be. The question really is, "is it worth the quality of getting outdoor sunlight on the plants if it means having less light hours?"

 

[Weaselcracker]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

If it's warm and there is a lot of sunlight outside I would probably go for it. Plants can't start flowering till they get mature enough which usually takes about a month. If they start flowering before you move them in- just put them on a 12/12 cycle and flower them. Though they may be a bit smaller than you want.
Or if they don't start flowering outdoors you're probably safe to just bring them in under 18/6 and keep vegging them. But I think the worst that can happen is they start flowering. I don't think it will cause hermies though like everything I say I could be wrong...
Re what I said about the light leaks in veg - probably it's best to strive for none- and I'm not saying that you should just disregard them- just that you can probably get away with it long enough to buy you time to get it all under control before flowering.

 

[Scarfinger68]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

A lot of good advice already in here.

If this is your very first grow and you have the patience, grow one seed as a mother plant and practice taking clones. Read up on cloning. I take a cutting, put some root powder on it and put the cutting in soil. Roots in 8 to 10 days. You can go without the rooting agent but it will take 15+ days to root in my experience.

Once you get cloning down... one seed will last you years.

I have ran up to 10 clones in a small space (vented and exhausted) with 24 oz pots using CFL's for an average 10 grams per plant. Your plants will grow/increase by roughly 1/4 to 1/2 their size once you flip to 12/12 depending on your strain.

I have also got 30 grams from a 1 gallon pot in a small space but it took a lot of LST/HST/topping to manage it.

The space you choose will determine the size of your plant.

 

[Happyjoy]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

ok thnks.
that sounds like great advice for the future.but for now, im really set on growing out these three strains so taht i can have the three different types of smoke for different times.
also i dont want to be having a mother plant growing all the time. this is more of a one time grow, and then grow again when i start running out of smoke. for different reasons i cant keep the grow room going all the time.

 

[Happyjoy]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

hey everyone.
im not sure if we went over this point previously, but something came up.
i found out that the 400W HPS ive been waiting to borrow, doesnt have a cool tube, or anything like that.
so im at a serious dillemma here.
i have 3 options:

1)i can just take it anyways, and keep a strong fan on in the room all the time during the hours that the light is on.(i dont even have my duct fans yet. itll be another month till they arrive. so im guessing if i decide to stick with the hps, ill probably need to go to the local hardware store and spend a good 30$ on a bathroom style duct fan

2) i can just drop the idea of the HPS, and go buy a bunch of CFL's like we spoke about on this post previously. im guessing that with the CFL's ill be able to keep the temps just fine using my house fan till the duct fans arrive.

3) to put together the money and buy a 96x3 reflector light. I know that the wattage isnt good enough for my 2x3 space. but the quesiton is, will it still work ok? or should i be preffering the proper amount of wattage from CFL, instead of the 96x3 LED?

again remember that YIELD isnt my main point, but quantity. however i dont want to end up with just 2 or 3 grams on each plant if the 96x3 LED wont be enough.

 

[Scarfinger68]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

hey everyone.

again remember that YIELD isnt my main point, but quantity. however i dont want to end up with just 2 or 3 grams on each plant if the 96x3 LED wont be enough.

LED lighting requires some distance from your canopy. DS100 for example is 30 inches above seedlings and a minimum of 20 inches above clones.

This is the main reason I have never went LED. My grow height is 3 foot so I don't have enough room above my plants to run an LED. HPS will required some distance above the canopy also. With CFL's you can be an inch or so away as long as you have some cooling/fans to pull the heat buildup out.

 

[madmarv0525]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

I started with a large cfl then went to a 4 tube t5 and now I am using a 400w hid light I wanted the best quality and better lighting was the easiest way i was told to achieve that. Don't forget about hydro, and hempys too. Whatever you decide to go with start a grow journal. The great folks here will coach you through it. I also have a small grow, and no cool tube i added more fans and the temps are fine

 

[Weaselcracker]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

Don't panic about not having cooled hoods. You can start under a single cfl for now or any fluorescent light. Fans are very easy to find. They are everywhere. Every bathroom has one where I live and there are dozens at any sort of recycling place.

 

[Happyjoy]

Re: help,how much space/ligthing for 3 short sativas?newb needs education to start gr

hey everyone. thnks for all the great help till now.
things are coming along. i picked up the 400w HPS today from my friend.
the seeds are siting germinating in solo cups under a simple light bulb to keep them warm in the meantime, untill they sprout. (they were 24 hours in water, and then transfered to these cups. theyve been in the soil for 48 hours already. during the day outside under the sun. and at night in the house under a light to stay warm....i hope they pop up soon....)

ive pretty much finsihed building my grow space. it was fun.designing it. i threw in a stealthy door to get to it, (but none of that is appearent yet in the picture. i need to get this final info before i make the last finsihes to the room.
the final dimensions are 2'x3'. and the height of 5'.

im trying to figure out where to put the exhaust fan?
i went out today and bought a normal 4" bathroom exhaust fan. the specs are: 17W draw power, it clears 67 cubic feet a minute.
(they had a stronger one which was i think 7", but i figured it would just make more noise, and that it wasnt nescesary....was that a good decision?)

heres a pic of the room to help understand what im talking about:

the space on the left that u see lit up is the grow space. (when im done all the walls will be white. and the big opening will have a sliding door which covers it up.
the dark space on the right is storage space and will have different boxes and items in it (but it wont be packed tight). (the size of the small room on riight is: 2'x2.5', and the height of 5'.
the space on top which is cut out of the photo is storage shelves. it goes up about another 3 feet high of storage space.
so my question is about using that space on the right as as the exhaust and intake space which would be the easiest, or if its a problem?

so my issue is this: im trying to figure out:
A)where to have the hot air blowing out of. and where to have the fresh air coming in from. (i dont have a second fan yet. i was hoping that maybe this would be sufficient together wtih a good floor fan, and leaving the door open, untill my CPU fan comes in ebay to use as an intake .
do you guys think that this way would be enough in the meantime?. if not then ill go out and buy another one of these)

B)how exactly to set up the exhaust fan. should i just make a hole in the dividing wall (the wall on the right), and put the fan itself in the wood? or should i have the fan hanging from the center of the room near the light, and have an exhaust tube take the air out through the wall on the right?

C)im not sure where to have the intake fan draw in fresh air from. if the exhaust fan is blowing out the hot air into the adjacent space on the right (the darker space in the picture), could i also have an intake fan drawing air from the bottom of that space?
if not, then im trying to think how to set this up. i can maybe have the outtake exhaust pipe, go up out the roof of the growspace, into the storage shelves above it, but then im converned not to make a moldy enviorment up there...

ive tried reading up on this in different forums and posts, and have read in general not to have the exhaust and intake too close. but i dont know how to apply this to my situation/lighting heat (400W HPS), and room sizes.

thnks again for all the help!

 

[madmarv0525]

Re: help, how much space/lighting for 3 short sativas? newb needs education to start

You can mount the fan directly to the top of the box as long as you can keep it light tight. For now I would just cut the hole for the new fan on the bottom of the opposite side until it comes. If you are still worried put a floor fan blowing cool air in the hole from the outside. You may want to look into a mh bulb for veg their light temp is cool/blue but you can veg with hps if you need to even add a couple blue cfls to have more light from that end of the spectrum

 

[Weaselcracker]

Re: help, how much space/lighting for 3 short sativas? newb needs education to start

Hot air rises. Put the air-out vent as high in the space as is comfortably possible. The air- in vent put down low. I just have a passive vent at the bottom- meaning, only the vent at the top has a fan. When the fan at the top comes on and pushes hot air out, cold air is automatically sucked in through the bottom vent. I vent the hot air outside, up high, and draw cool air from outside, down low. Depending on your outside world temperatures that may or may not work. Some peoples outside temps get too hot in summer for this to work.

 

[jojo677]

Re: help, how much space/lighting for 3 short sativas? newb needs education to start

Lots of good advice for you here! I do have one thing to add, since I just finished my first grow a bit ago. If you can be patient and don't mind some plants being slightly bigger than others, germinate your seeds about 1 week apart. This will help you tune several things during the first plant or two, so you know what to do for the next one. You'll learn all about how your nutrients, pH, lighting, etc, and how it affects your plants. Of course this is going to vary for each strain, but if you end up burning a seedling, you can figure out why and keep the next one healthy. Sounds like you are getting everything lined out to grow though!