Nivana's Chrystal 11 Weeks Into Veg - Advice Welcome!

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What Strain is it? nirvana's chrystal
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? hybrid white widow and northern lights - do not know percentages
How Many Plants? four
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage? vegetative
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long? 11 weeks (it's a long story)
If in Flowering Stage... How Long?
Indoor or Outdoor? indoor
Soil or Hydro? soil
If Hydro, Reservoir size?
If Hydro, Reservoir Temperature?
If Hydro, what type of Medium?
If Hydro, what type of Setup?
If Soil... What is in your Mix? ff ocean forest with a bit of diatomaceous earth and kelp mixed in
If Soil... What Size Pot? 3 gallon air-pots
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many? one 400w with a philips cmh bulb.
Is it Air Cooled? no
Temperature of Room/Cabinet? 70 degrees fahrenheit
RH of Room/Cabinet? It was about 34%, but yesterday I got out the humidifier and now it's 49%
PH of Medium or Reservoir? 6.4
Any Pests? no
How Often are you Watering? i use blumats with a 5 gallon reservoir
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used? i was using earth juice per bottle directions, but will be replacing that with eleanor's organic vf-11.
Size or Square Footage of Room? 3'x3' tent

i was going to pitch these 4 plants because they are having such a hard time (understatement), but would rather save them and learn something in the process, with the help of you guys!

all 4 plants were germinated 2nd week of september and were doing great until mid to end of october. i think i either under or over fed them and it's been all downhill ever since. i've recently bought a blue lab ec meter and ph meter, hoping it would help me restore them and not make that mistake again.

since i went off the rails, i haven't been able to get back on! i've kept them alive, but just barely.

they are currently very sad...

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Just do as we talked about as far as getting them restarted. Get a pH reading and post it so we know where you are starting from. When the new growth starts to look healthy and we have 3-6 inches on the bottom nodes each with 3 nodes themselves we will start cutting them down to size. For the purposes of what we are doing we are going to only be concerned with the bottom 2 sets of nodes and maybe the first set on current branches.

Depending on how they rebound we may whack all of the branches off and just go with the main stalk and the bottom few nodes...but only after they have rebounded and have healthy fan leaves.
 
VilliageIdiot said:
Sub'd

Just do as we talked about as far as getting them restarted. Get a pH reading and post it so we know where you are starting from. When the new growth starts to look healthy and we have 3-6 inches on the bottom nodes each with 3 nodes themselves we will start cutting them down to size. For the purposes of what we are doing we are going to only be concerned with the bottom 2 sets of nodes and maybe the first set on current branches.

Depending on how they rebound we may whack all of the branches off and just go with the main stalk and the bottom few nodes...but only after they have rebounded and have healthy fan leaves.
Click to expand...

ok, i just re read all your posts and the first step is a flush...then start a low nute program with eleanor's vf11 and get the growing started on the lower limbs...as they recover start whacking on the upper branches to bring them back down to a manageable size.

my understanding of a flush is to put 2 times the volume of the pot through the dirt. yesterday, i ran 10 gallons of water to de chlorinate it to use for that purpose.

i'm off to pick up the andrea's vf11 now...we live in washington...where it is green year round and i have a local home depot.

oh yeah...current ph of the reservoir is 6.3.

wait...water flush or cal-mag flush?
 
So a typical flush is 5 times the pot size in water. I was taught by a horticulturalist to just place them in the bath tub and run water through the pot for 15 min or more. Adjust the flow to equalize the wash out and that will flush out all the crap you have in there from various over watering and the lock out you created. De-chlorination is typically important but we are doing something kind of like Chemo and it will get slightly worse before it gets better.

Then we need to run one more bucket of pH'd water through to get them back to a good state. I would use your dechlorinated water for this...with the nutes and what I explain next.

Since you had some bad lockout and possibly now some dead roots it is also a good idea to get some enzyme treatment in there. I use hygrozyme but there are others...anything with zyme in the name should get in there and break down the dead roots and turn them back into usable plant food. If you really want to go bawlls to the wall we could add some Beneficial bacteria to help tidy up anything we missed in the flush.

After the flush we will not water for a long time because we need it to dry out completely. So preferable we do the nutes, enzyme and bacteria in with the pH'd water. But it isn't a big deal to wait for the second watering for that. More important is we must let it fully dry out after the flush. We wont want to water again until we see signs from the leaves that we are under watered. So we want to make sure the tent is at least 40% Relative Humidity and preferably a bit higher as we dry out.

So that should be enough work for about 1 week. It will take that long to dry out min. If you relocate your fans onto those transplant (air) pots it may dry out faster and help with the humidity.

At that point we should be able to start just adding in some very low nutes and focus on getting the lower nodes to run. There is s trick for that we can talk about when we get there.

Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense. I don't want you just following directions I want you to understand why and what you are doing.

:thumb:
 
wow...5 times times the pot size! good to know...

Since you had some bad lockout and possibly now some dead roots it is also a good idea to get some enzyme treatment in there. I use hygrozyme but there are others...anything with zyme in the name should get in there and break down the dead roots and turn them back into usable plant food. If you really want to go bawlls to the wall we could add some Beneficial bacteria to help tidy up anything we missed in the flush.


i have biovam...
BioVam Product Overview.
it doesn't say zyme in the name, but when i didn't use it when transplanting the clones, they wilted, but when i did use it they didn't wilt...

if this isn't what you have in mind, i'll find some hygrozyme. and what would be a good "beneficial bacteria?" perhaps that is the biovam?

i've been looking at eleanor's vf-11...it says 2 Tbsp/gallon of water...it looks like something i could put directly into the blumat reservoir to feed the plants...it looks clear like it wouldn't clog anything. that would be great!

but when you say a "weak" solution...are you thinking like 1 Tbsp/gallon...or 1 tsp/gallon?

i would like to have the hygrozyme and beneficial bacteria at hand when i flush them.. so i may have to wait until monday morning to do this...i live in a small town and stuff is closed on sundays.
 
That link you posted goes to a site that has the right words on it. But I have never used it and never heard of it. But I am sure you are golden pony boy...For the bacteria (it also has some cool fungi). I didn't see any enzyme treatment there. Those don't usually come in the same bottle. Hygrozyme is a bit spendy but it is old school, been around forever, saved many growers. I have used both Hygrozyme and Sensizyme and both work great. If you make it into a grow store and ask for an enzyme treatment for the roots they will take care of ya.
 
Well since you got VF-11 I wouldn't worry too much about the strength. It was formulated to try and aid in proper ratio uptake. Since you still have decent growth and we have not chopped anything yet we wont burn. So go with the recommended dose. Depending on how they rebound we may back off but I doubt it. VF-11 is very safe to use and is ideal for this type of thing.
 
Your new growth actually does not look that bad so really as soon as it starts looking good and healthy in the new growth we can start forcing the growth into the lower branches. Old damaged growth does not rebound.

We do that by "pinching" off the top nodes. A pro would use good pruning sheers. We don't want to touch any of the fan leaves we just want to stop the growth and stretching at those top branches that we are going to cut off anyway. So you want to go to the tops off all those branches and take out the very top node. As other ones come out we can take those off too. But leave all the fan leaves there. This will promote growth at the lower nodes that are not damaged. And the fan leaves up top will be generating lots of photosynthesis that will be transported down to where it is needed.

When a plant is damaged like that in order to heal it releases hormones that will stop growth locally and promote healing. So in this way all undamaged stuff will start growing faster.

Again as long as you are leaving the fan leaves we should be quick to rebound below. It is up to you to decide how far you go down the plant. What you want to think about is First you need to reveg. So there will be like 1-2 feet of veg growth we are going to try and get out of the bottom before flowering. Then we are going to bloom it and we will get another 2-3 feet out of that. and considering you need 18 inches or more to the light to prevent burring that should help you calculate how much of the plant we are going to take down.

I personally would SCROG them. I would go WAY down and use only the first 2 node sets and scrog them out so you can have a decent yield.
 
I am sure that stuff is awesome. I bet it makes basically what you bought in the bottle we talked about yesterday. I would need to do some more reading but that would be something I would do in alternation with the other stuff. Once every 2 weeks for either one and that should be enough. The powder bag is probably enough to make tea for years if it stay viable that long. the liquid stuff has a much shorter shelf life I am sure as once the stuff goes live it has a certain shelf life. Check the manf. specs on that stuff.
 
And I wasn't being a dick when I made that statement that made you smile. That was what came to me when I looked at those pics. I am sure you know what they are supposed to look like so I am sure you understand. We are going to get new growth at the bottom with tight nodal density and SCROG out the first 1-2 feet horizontal and get a bang up harvest...it is just gonna take some time.
 
VilliageIdiot said:
And I wasn't being a dick when I made that statement that made you smile. That was what came to me when I looked at those pics. I am sure you know what they are supposed to look like so I am sure you understand. We are going to get new growth at the bottom with tight nodal density and SCROG out the first 1-2 feet horizontal and get a bang up harvest...it is just gonna take some time.
Click to expand...

yeah, you were being totally honest and i recognized that and appreciated it because that is what i was looking for...that is why it made me smile.

i have a liter of hygrozyme...so this is what i'm going to go do...i'm telling you so that you can correct me if i get something wrong.

i'm going to put each plant in the bathtub and run about 14 gallons of water through each one.

then, i'm going to run about 1 gallon of de-chlorinated water through each plant and in that water will be:

-the recommended and appropriate amount of hygrozyme and biovam and vf-11
(the recommended amount would be what the directions on the package suggests for 2 gallons of water. i think you said that all these products are safe at recommended doses.)

then the plant will go back into the tent at a humidity above 44% (it's currently at 50% since i added the humidifier) and be allowed to dry out.

does that cover it?

i'm going to take a picture of each plant as it goes through the process.
 
That sounds great!

In a day or 2 I will post a tea brew that you can make with that powder stuff that will really help it take off. I have not read up yet on the powder stuff so I want to understand the directions on that first but I bet I know what you are supposed to do and it will work good with what I want you to try.

I am off to make some clones. I get back at ya after we have some pics here to talk about.
 
now that it's all flushed and posted...whew!

i'll send one more gallon of water through each plant...ph adjusted to 6.3 and mixed with 8-10 ml of hygrozyme, one ounce of vf-11, and about 1 tablespoon of biovam...
 
VilliageIdiot said:
That sounds great!

In a day or 2 I will post a tea brew that you can make with that powder stuff that will really help it take off. I have not read up yet on the powder stuff so I want to understand the directions on that first but I bet I know what you are supposed to do and it will work good with what I want you to try.

I am off to make some clones. I get back at ya after we have some pics here to talk about.
Click to expand...

great!...i also have some of this stuff...

BioMinerals 2.5-4-.2 General Purpose Fertilizer Label

might as well throw it into the mix when you are looking around!
 
That stuff looks like actual nutes that we don't want to mix with VF-11. We will use it just after we have established a good foundation without any nute burn with VF-11.


And good job...I know that aint easy work.
 

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