Original source seeds from the 70's: Yes I have some

A word about Colombian weed and strains here...

When I was smoking pot in the early 70s most of the local weed in NorCal was from Mexico, with some coming in from SE Asia and hash from coming in from the Middle East, and small lots from Panama and India. Then after the Paraquat bomb went off in Mexico in the 70s, a lot of weed started coming in from Colombia. Colombian weed was different than Mexican, and typically stronger. It was also many-colored, and typically gold. But there was also red, green, light gold, dark gold, brown, and multi-colored (green+red, green+gold, red+green+gold). Personally I liked Mexican weed better for the high, and Colombian as a rule was more stony weed than Mexican was. A lot of Colombian was downright narcotic and landed you locked into the couch or even sprawled out on the floor. A lot of it just put me to sleep. However, I found that I preferred Colombian Green or Green+Gold loose tops whenever I could find it. Colombian Green was far more rare than the gold was. It had a better high to it than standard Colombian Gold and was sometimes incredibly strong stuff (less narcotic than Colombo gold and brown, and more uppity and psychedelic).

Now there are a million and one opinions about where the gold in Colombian weed came from. My experience growing many types of seeds from there is that there were naturally green and naturally gold strains from Colombia at that time (in the 1970s). I have grown both from my seeds. They also practiced the sweat method of curing pot in Colombia (the same method was used in SE Asia). In that method they would pile up the fresh cut tops and let them cure, or compost for a few days. This cooks off the green chlorophyll and turns the tops red, gold or brown. Once the tops turned color, they would remove them from the compost pile and dry them, and leave them loose or brick them for transport. Some cheaper lowland brown and gold Colombian was bricked while fresh, stacked or piled in a heap and allowed to sweat cure in the same manner, often times during transport. Some say that the Colombians girdled their pot plants to get the gold color of the weed, but girdling plants only starves the roots and the tops of the plants then strip all the nutrients and water from the roots. At the end of the life cycle of annual plants like Cannabis, the flow of nutrients to the roots from the tops is far less important than the flow of water and nutrients from the roots to the tops. So I do not see how girdling would turn pot plants gold. My experience anyway.

If nothing else, everyone agrees that Colombian pot was usually really seedy. The crafty Colombians realized early on that seeds added to the weight, and pot was sold by weight, not by volume. More weight meant more money. So they allowed the male MJ plants to mature and flower with the females, and that assured a lot of seeds and more weight by volume. It also meant lower quality pot compared to seedless female sinsemillia, but sinsemillia was not typically available in NorCal until the late 70s. In NorCal at least, Colombian weed was basically displaced by local homegrown MJ grown in California starting around 1979. Some cheaper Mexican sinsemillia became available about that time as well, but soon that was drown out along with all the other imported weed by CA local grown seedless tops. The local weed was far better, and in the beginning, cheaper in comparison w/o all the seeds in it (we had many debates about this early on and basically the seedless pot won out).

I have read about Colombian indica weed in a lot of places, but my experience is that all the strains of land race Colombian seeds that I have are sativas (the same as with my Mexican land race seeds). No strain of Colombian that I have ever planted has had fat leaves, had the indica stink, grew short, or flowered that early. Zero. Also unlike South Mexican sativa strains which bloom about month later in September than my indicas do here in August, the Colombian strains all bloom in October at the earliest. They, like the Northern Mexican strains, bloom really late and really long. I have had several strains of Colombian show really intense purples. That may be from northern latitude sunlight though, or cooler fall temps. I have seen the same thing happen with northern Mexican strains, and several modern strains that I have grown here.

I never valued my Colombian seeds that highly. There were so damn many seeds in the lids from there that I figured everyone must have gobs of them like I do. Also they bloom so late they have been useless for me to grow in California and Oregon (they either freeze or rot outdoors in early bloom in late October). But now I know how to force them to bloom early in mid August so I can harvest them in October. So I will be growing more of these strains from my collection in the near future.

Well, now back to more of my Colombian strains.
 
Frozen seeds won`t germinate. Thats the truth... the fact they`re 35 years old makes me wonder just reliable they`ll be..

Do you speak from experience?

I know firsthand that frozen seeds can and do germinate, I've had success with decade old frozen seeds.
Surely, a bit less hardy during seedling phase than 3 month old fresh seeds, but once into Veg, they flourish like any other I've ever grown.

Best Of Buds

JB
 
Frozen seeds won`t germinate. Thats the truth... the fact they`re 35 years old makes me wonder just reliable they`ll be..

You are emphatically, entirely and utterly incorrect in your statement. I can refute your completely inaccurate claim and reference many scientific studies and examples showing that Cannabis seeds will virtually last ***forever*** when they are frozen properly. Not only that, I have germinated hundreds (if not thousands) of previously frozen Cannabis seeds over the years, and they do in fact germinate just fine. This year I had a 100% germination rate with 15 year old seeds and with 37 year old seeds. 100% germination. They grew and matured into full plants, some over 8 feet tall. My brother and I have finished curing that bud, and it smokes just fine. I also have about 40 vials of pollen from males from those strains that I grew this year that are now frozen as well. I will use that pollen to fertilize my females next year, also grown from 15-40 year old frozen seeds.
 
I have collected many seed strains since 79 and i assure you once frozen, they will not germinate.

Happy New Year and Good Luck.
 
So how come landrace varieties thrive through the winter in harsh climates? Seeds can go to any low temps they want and they will germinate in the spring. I can guarantee you that. But it's not only cannabis, many varieties of plants spread the same way. They drop the seeds in the autumn, and these germinate next year. I actually wanted to prove it by dropping few seeds and checking how they'd do.
 
Sejd2131

This is my first post here though I have read all of it.

There are a lot of members posting on this thread with a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience, especially with old seeds and many more following along. You can learn a lot on this thread.

You no doubt have some experience and probably more than most. No one knows it all. Getting someones back up as a first post does not encourage a lot of positive responses.

Best,
canyon
 
I have germinated my frozen seed collection with great success over the past 35 years with little problem. They germinate. Over and over again, year in and year out, they germinate. Again, this year my seeds germinated at a 100% rate. There is nothing magic about it. Put seeds into an airtight dry container, and freeze the seeds.
 
With that logic any place that has winter frost will be completely barren?

With logic, Cannabis would not have survived the ice age winters in its northern Asia native habitat w/o the capacity for seeds to survive freezing temperatures for long periods of time. But apparently logic is out the window here in this debate, as are my multi-year and multi-strain frozen Cannabis seed results. Michael Starks' scientific research citations are apparently all wrong as well, as is his statement that frozen Cannabis seeds should remain viable in a freezer indefinitely (Michael Starks, author of the book, Marijuana Potency).
 
You actually believe seeds from 35++ years will germinate after being frozen for a few years and can still reproduce? Listen, i love the fact you enjoy walking down memory lane when "the golden age" of weed once was, however, if that were the case,why haven`t some of the larger seedbanks like "greenhouse" made contact with you? After all, they specialize in locating some of the best strains available today.. I`m positive, they too would love to see a seed reproduce with such ease as you claim...
 
I am not walking down memory lane here. I am listing my seed catalog here, as requested by other forum members. There is a difference. I grew weed from seeds this year that I froze 15 and 37 years ago. I have not bought a bag of weed with seeds in it for over 30 years now. I have never bought a Cannabis seed on its own, ever. And yet, miraculously, I have been able to germinate and grow heirloom strains of Cannabis from seeds over the past 30 years. I have also shared these seeds with other growers as well.

As I said before, people have contacted me in attempts to buy my seeds. Many growers in this area want my seeds. They are drooling over the genetics. I am not interested in selling them seeds so that they can make a fat profit off of them. You can read my earlier posts about my reasoning about that in this thread here. I posted this thread because around here at least, no one has these kind of seeds. I have shared my pollen from several of my frozen seed strains with several MMJ growers in this state and they have germinated more seeds and strains from my males that I grew this summer.
 
Also for the record note that I am a multiple degreed engineer. I also have certificates in horticulture and silviculture. I have also owned and operated several plant nurseries and landscaping companies up and down the west coast from Seattle to San Diego. I have previously specialized in growing and hybridizing roses, cymbidium orchids, and bamboos. I also rooted and planted a Pinot Noir vineyard in Southern Oregon consisting of Dijon clones 667, 777, 114, and 115 from a neighbor's vineyard cuttings. I know a lot about a lot of types of plants, not just Cannabis.

And I will say it again and again and again and again. I have a collection of Cannabis seeds that I have saved and froze starting in the later half of the 1970s. I have supplied many of my seeds to many growers over the years, and they have had great success in germinating and growing these land race and heirloom strains. I have also germinated many of these seeds and grown many many Cannabis plants to full maturity.
 
Moving along,

I have grown several of the larger commercial mostly sativa strains for four years now. I have been topping and training them to have wide canapés that are around four feet tall or a little more before I move them into flower.

My question is, would I be able to do this with the taller older sativa strains? I can veg. them as long as it takes to fill them out.

Malawi (SP) is the one that I am most interested in.

TIA

Best,
canyon
 
I have trained and pruned and trellised many different types of Cannabis plants from my seed collection, as well as modern clones. They all can be pruned, topped, and trained to grow pretty much any way that you want. This summer I pruned my landrace Mexican sativas several times so that they spread out and grew lower so that I could keep them in a 7 foot tall greenhouse. Otherwise they would have been over 8 feet tall (like several that I gave to my brother that he did not prune at all). If I let the plants come into contact with the greenhouse plastic, the flowering tops will rot from condensation when nighttime temps drop in the late summer and early fall here. I also pruned my heirloom indicas to be shorter and bushier this year, and they responded just fine growing wider and shorter. I also cut most of the tops off my males this year after collecting the pollen, and they grew new side shoots and bloomed again. I was not trying to get that to happen, it just did. So I double cropped the pollen and male florets.

In previous years I have set up trellises and trained the main stems horizontally. This year I am growing my modern and heirloom clones vertically under T8 fluoro tubes. Literally they are bent 90 degrees one inch above soil level and they are growing several feet out. I have to keep pulling the new growth of the central leader stem down and tying it off with twine to keep it horizontal. The plants are doing just fine that way. I am using the side growth shoots to make more clones with. In the spring I will put the mothers out in the greenouses and start to flower them off when the nights are 13 or so hours long.

Moving along,

I have grown several of the larger commercial mostly sativa strains for four years now. I have been topping and training them to have wide canapés that are around four feet tall or a little more before I move them into flower.

My question is, would I be able to do this with the taller older sativa strains? I can veg. them as long as it takes to fill them out.

Malawi (SP) is the one that I am most interested in.

TIA

Best,
canyon
 
Some thoughts about why frozen Cannabis seeds might fail to germinate in FLORIDA as compared to CALIFORNIA and OREGON.

In all the research that I have read on freezing Cannabis seeds, they all come to 2 basic conclusions. 1) the seeds need to be DRY and kept DRY, and 2) the seeds need to be kept cold. The colder the better, and the colder they are kept the less impact that humidity has on them. So one could speculate that humidity in places like Florida is a reason that some frozen seeds may fail. Contrary to that, the climate out here in the west is DRY. The seeds in the weed here would be very dry before they were frozen by me when I lived in California. They have remained for the most part in a hard shell plastic case in various freezers up and down the west coast, from Portland to San Diego.

Of course there are other factors involved with germinating thawed out frozen seeds. One being that Cannabis seed cases tend to get harder over time. I gave some seeds to my brother's landlord about 8 years ago and he complained that they did not germinate. My brother then showed him how to nick the seeds, and whallah! They germinated. Happy landlord. I always scratch the seed coats of my Cannabis seeds with a file before germinating them in wet paper towels.

Another factor seems to be with strain resistance to dampening off (fungus). Previous to several years ago, I mainly grew land race sativas from my seed collection. They all seem to be impervious to western fungi in soils and I never had any problems with them dampening off after germination. I germinated some heirloom indica strains along with some Mexican sativa strains this year. All the sativas germinated and all of them grew fine when planted in soil. The indicas also all germinated, but about half of them died of dampening off after I planted them in soil, before the first true leaves formed. So in future I will be: 1) soaking the seeds in hydrogen peroxide solution before germinating, and 2) using sterile soil in the 4 inch pots that I plant the germinated seeds into. I hope to increase my plant yield in these ways in future to prevent fungal disease from killing them.

Also note that I have never had a 100% germination rate until this year. Random luck? Though I grew seeds this year only from strains that I have had success with before. I do not make (and never made) the claim that all seeds will survive over time being stored in a freezer. I believe that low humidity is a big factor in my success in freezing and germinating Cannabis seeds. And I will again state as a fact that I have been able to germinate Cannabis seeds that have been frozen for 35 years or longer in a standard chest freezer, and they not only germinated, but matured into full size flowering plants that made for excellent smoke. I am smoking some previously frozen seed heirloom Mendocino bud right now, as a matter of fact. Its legal here now...
 
Malawi (SP) is the one that I am most interested in.

TIA

Best,
canyon

In the book, Marijuana Botany by Robert Clark, he says that Malawi strains do not get huge and tall like the Mexican sativas do. According to him, landrace Malawi strains tend to be dark green in color, grow to medium height in stature and they have strong limbs. So it would seem that they can be trained to do just about anything that you want, though the stems may resist bending if you wait too long. He goes on to say that the Malawi landraces flower rather late, and they tend to vary widely in phenotype. They also seem to flower rather sparsely and in open clusters, from the drawing he has of them. So expect the unexpected?
 
BigSur,

I only had your first post.

There are two members that I know of who grow Malawi, one grows outdoors and the other has a 12f tall room. Both look healthy and strong, but stretchy.

If it branches well I should be able to train it.

Would you like to offer up another strain to add to an order?

Thanks

Stretchy depends on lighting, IME. Also heat. More heat, less light, more stretch.

You mean a recommendation seed-wise for you to grow? I grow and have gown mostly outdoors so I cannot say what are the best for indoors. My best plant indoors right now is Ghost OG, but that strain is clone only. As for landraces, all the strains that I have seeds for were grown outdoors, except one heirloom from Mendocino. Most of the indicas do pretty well indoors, as they are more compact and bloom faster and earlier. They stink a lot though. Sativas are far less smelly. The guy I trade clones with likes Blue Magoo a lot, which is an Oregon bread strain that is also clone only. I almost got a BubbleGum clone because of the smell. It smells like... bubblegum. Bubblegum is short and bushy, and seeds are available for it. Blue Dream is doing well here bent over under the lights. White Widow is always wanting to be fed and is not doing as well under the lights here bent over. It is branching like mad into a dense shrub.
 
Back
Top Bottom