Picking your brain

[tonydavis]

re: Picking your brain

hm... it is getting even more interesting

My post isn't meant to shit on Advancedledlights, I know they're using quality products + they give a 90 day risk free guarantee and have a long warranty.

But I don't think the white chips have better efficiency than COBs.

According to Cree the XT-E has a max output of 148lm/watt @ 6000k or 114lm/watt @ 3000k (I have a feeling they meant 5000k instead of 6000k)
Cree Components XLamp XT-E White LEDs

Advanced mentions on their site they're run at 3.9 watts. (XTE Series LED Grow Light - USA Made 5w LEDs - Advanced LED Grow Lights)
This makes it easy to calculate their efficiency thanks to Cree their calculator: Cree Product Characterization Tool
I'll act like Advanced is using the very best bin.
1.150A gives 3.9Watts for the XT-E and 124.2 lm/W

Now the CXA-2540

@5000k the lowest bin is V4 (for 70/80CRI chips)

The Advanced LEDs are driven @ 1.150A, with diy CXA2540 you can decide the amps for yourself.
At 1.050A the CXA2540 with a pretty low bin is as efficient (in terms of lumen/watt) as the 1.15A driven XTE leds in the Advanced XTE panels.
The only problem is that the 2 lights don't have the exact same spectrum, they're similar but the 2540 probably has a slightly worse spectrum for Vegging.

But if I for example took the CXA2540 with the X2 bin it does clearly outperform the XTE at every amperage.
The 2540 with the X2 bin does 150 lm/w @ 1.150A, even with a spectrum slightly worse for vegging the added efficiency fully makes up for it.
And the Cree flagship CXB3590 with the DB bin just completely destroy the XTE (even the very best bin) in terms of efficiency.

Advanced probably has the best non-cob based panels, I just feel that non-cob LEDs are starting to get antiquated compared to the cobs.

 

[speyfly]

I have the LED in a 2X4 tent and the light is max out regarding the coverage. If I had it to do over I think I would have gotten 2 of the 300's, a little more versatile. Temp management was easy once I dialed in the air flow.

I'm currently flowering a single plant and very happy with the results so far. The plant really likes the LED...

 

[Icemud]

re: Picking your brain

My post isn't meant to shit on Advancedledlights, I know they're using quality products + they give a 90 day risk free guarantee and have a long warranty.

But I don't think the white chips have better efficiency than COBs.

According to Cree the XT-E has a max output of 148lm/watt @ 6000k or 114lm/watt @ 3000k (I have a feeling they meant 5000k instead of 6000k)

Advanced mentions on their site they're run at 3.9 watts. (XTE Series LED Grow Light - USA Made 5w LEDs - Advanced LED Grow Lights)
This makes it easy to calculate their efficiency thanks to Cree their calculator:Cree Product Characterization Tool
I'll act like Advanced is using the very best bin.
1.150A gives 3.9Watts for the XT-E and 124.2 lm/W

Now the CXA-2540

@5000k the lowest bin is V4 (for 70/80CRI chips)

The Advanced LEDs are driven @ 1.150A, with diy CXA2540 you can decide the amps for yourself.
At 1.050A the CXA2540 with a pretty low bin is as efficient (in terms of lumen/watt) as the 1.15A driven XTE leds in the Advanced XTE panels.
The only problem is that the 2 lights don't have the exact same spectrum, they're similar but the 2540 probably has a slightly worse spectrum for Vegging.

But if I for example took the CXA2540 with the X2 bin it does clearly outperform the XTE at every amperage.
The 2540 with the X2 bin does 150 lm/w @ 1.150A, even with a spectrum slightly worse for vegging the added efficiency fully makes up for it.
And the Cree flagship CXB3590 with the DB bin just completely destroy the XTE (even the very best bin) in terms of efficiency.

Advanced probably has the best non-cob based panels, I just feel that non-cob LEDs are starting to get antiquated compared to the cobs.

Wow, I have been on Cree's site hundreds of times and never found that calculator tool.... awesome find and nice share. Well I definitely am one that likes to be right, but also will gladly admit when I made a mistake and it looks like I was wrong in the info about lumens/watt. When I originally typed the first post, not only was I being trolled and pretty agitated but also found data sheets saying the CXB chips maxed at 100lm/w vs the XTE at 149lm/w which is how I built my statement, but now that I look back, the 100lm/w was for the CXB high bay lights by cree but not the actual chip efficacy.

Thank you for posting the calculator and correcting me. Last thing I want to do is spread bad info. I still believe that in the current state, COBs are a new solution, but not ideal by themselves as most of them lack in the full blue range, as well as many are high in yellow/green light but not in the deep red area of the spectrum. As experimentation with phosphors increases the spectrum range, I think COB's may be the answer in the future, but its still to be determined. Personally my opinion is they still need deep blue, far red/deep red supplementation hence the reason for multi chip panels in the current industry. With COBs having a good portion of the light in yellow/green region, this area only has an absorption rate of about 70-80% where blue/red is around 100% absorption. Therefore this is why I say COBs are nice, but not the perfect solution yet.

I do agree thought, for pre built out the box LED options, Advanced LED does have better products than about 90% of the options available but are they perfect... well thats a matter of opinion, and is there things I would add/change...yep... only the future will show how this industry emerges as it is still rather young.

 

[CaneyeBus]

re: Picking your brain

I was sponsored by Advanced, over 3 grows ago...I am no longer in the "sponsorship" period, and I choose to use the lights because they so far are the BEST LED grow lights I have used. I like the spectral blend, I like they use Cree/Osram chips, I like the cross hatched heat sinks, I like the dust covers on the fans, I like the 2 knob spectrum/intensity control, I like the overall design. My plants like them. I don't know why you would say they are outdated when 90% of the industry still uses crappy epistar and epiled chips, poor thermal management, and most companies still fail to post their PPFD results...Not Advanced... They feature Licor tested PAR charts and other data for every panel they offer....definitely the company is more Advanced than the majority of the industry and the product shows. So why do I used the XTE panels...because I like them. They work great.

The technology I am using is not "outdated" like you say...

I know a lot of DIY guys are making white COB lights, but I am not convinced that this is the "future" of LED lighting. Yes, white Cree COB chips offer better efficiency (lumens/watt) than most Red or Blue diodes, but also plants absorb mostly red and blue so using white Cobs is actually not as efficient for growing since they are loaded with green and yellow light. Yes plants use green light, I understand this, but the efficiency of green light driving photosynthesis is only in very intense white light and it reflects and bounces around the mesophyll more than red or blue. So when blue/red photoreceptors are overloaded, then the green finds its place. I also have seen a lot of grows using Cree white COB arrays, and yes they do look promising, but the spectrum is far from perfect with out other 3w or 5w led's supplmenting the deep blue/purple, the higher 480-500nm blue/green as well as some extra support in the 620nm and 660nm region. So if I were to make a DIY LED panel, it would feature white cobs, blue and red chips...wait a second....thats what Advanced LED XTE panels have for spectrum...white, blue and red... hmmmm.

Now if you are referring to the red/blue COB chips featuring a bunch of epiled chips crammed into a small array, those types of COB chips are crap, and have horrible heat management, use pretty much the most generic of LED chips, and the only benefit of those type of COB chips are to the company selling them for profit, not to the end user.

I hope that answers your question, even though it was somewhat worded in a fashion that could be taken as insulting to one of our sponsors... Advanced LED makes amazing lights, and after trying 2 other brands, I am extremely happy with their performance. Is there a few minor things that if I could change I would...yes.. but that will have to wait until I build my own panels.

The other reason on why I haven't built my own LED panels yet is because now that I have researched the industry for a long time, used 6 different LED panel designs from 3 manufacturers, I see there are things that I would do differently than anyone in the industry... and would have a huge impact on every single design on the market... before I would make anything public, I would have to get my idea's patented, and if you have ever looked into the cost of getting a patent, you are talking around 10Grand or more. I can't afford to drop this kind of money yet, so my ideas will have to wait. The industry is too money hungry, greedy and there is no shame in people stealing others ideas as we have seen in this industry before. This is why I haven't built a panel yet, which is very close to happening, but I will not make it public until the design ideas are legally protected both in the US and China.

To sum things up...Why do I use Advance LED XTE panels...
-They feature Cree/Osram chips which last longer than the cheap epistar/epiled chips on the market in most panels (lasting 2x-3x longer)
-They have been around for over 5 years
-The panels are built very well, dust covers, modular design, excellent thermal design.
-They work better than the other LED panels I have used by far, denser nugs, larger yield.
-I haven't built my own panels yet, due to time, cost, and an area to work on them.
-I am not convince that all white COB is better, most of the all white COB videos/photos don't look nearly as trichome coated as red/blue LED plants.
-I don't see that all white chips have an ideal spectrum, the lack in the full blue end, lack a heavy deep red end, hardly have IR, and have way too much yellow green to maximize their electrical efficiency.
-Lastly, I have them, they work well, why change something that works amazing.

Also.. Cree CXA/CXB chips have a lower efficiency than the white XTE Cree chips in my panel. The CXB/CXA chips max out around 100lumens/watt where the white XTE chips I have in my Advanced panels max at 149 lumens/watt...

Well hey there Icemud!!! I saw when you switched over to Advanced after trying those other leds. I've also read your review on their site. I bought my xml a few grows/months before you received your sponsorship. Didn't comment,yet, I was following along. I, as well as my babies were/are delighted with the purchase as I knew you would with such a great product in such capable hands. Good to see ya around 'Mud.

Stay frosty,
Caneye