Plan for very small scale pheno hunting and cloning?

[Weffalo]

Yo my people,

Just wondering about a few things for my next grow, I'm gonna be growing some decent genetics so I wanted to try my hand at pheno hunting. I only plan to pop 4 seeds as I don't have loads of money to throw away or space currently. I do know typically you would pop a lot more to try and find the best pheno but I don't mind, I will choose the best of the 4.

I plan to pop 4 seeds in smaller 10 litre SIPs and grow them all the way to harvest, this will be part of my normal perpetual. I will take a clone of each of these plants in veg (I read later veg when the plant is stronger is best) and then put these into a DIY aeroponic cloner, once they have rooted I plan to grow them out and put them into small 1 gal pots and keep them fairly small in a 2x2 until I've harvested and tried the smoke.

Based on the results I will then choose one of the phenos and transplant it into a bigger 5gal SIP and have that plant alone in my 2x2 as a mother plant to take clones from. Doing it this way will eventually let me shave off a lot of time and it means I always have a place for a prized pheno in my 2x2 with the mother plant.

I'm just curious about a few things, would I be able to safely keep 4 clones for approx 7 weeks in those small containers to stop them growing too much? How do I go about keeping a mother plant contained to the 2x2 and not getitng overgrown?

Does this sound a reasonable way to do things or am I missing something obvious that others do? The key problem from what I can see is you need to sample the final product before deciding on what pheno to grow out, but I see no way around this Would appreciate any advice or how you do things regarding this topic

 

[013]

What’s up big daddy?

might need to steer away from SIP for your moms.

full disclosure… not a pollen chucker and I‘m new to the SIP club too but in my noggin the robust growth of a SIP is kinda the opposite of clone moms kept small. I’m sure you can pull it off in a SIP; but by the time you flower out clones enough to sample the goodies for your pheno hunt, by then the SIP moms will need the roof raised. Clone moms are kinda kept in a neglected manner, the idea is keep them growing low & slow, in small containers, not pushing nutes hard etc. Clone moms need periodic root pruning so that kinda defeats the SIP anyway.

brb with link >>> Bonsai Moms

my 2 cents and I’m perhaps way wrong here but thrilled to learn what the crew has to offer

 

[Pat Puffer]

That link is exactly where I got my info from to maintain my Bonsai mom's. You can keep at least 12 bonsais in a 2×2 with that practice.

The main problem I ran in to was a mag deficiency. That is easily rectified with Epsom salt. I used Kellogs Fish, kelp, and molasses fertilizer (2-2-2). That's all I needed to keep them going for a few years.

I never got to the root pruning. I would just pull an extra clone after about a year and start the mother over again as a new clone while still maintaining the genetics.

It looks a bit daunting but totally doable. If I could do it, anyone could do it. I had a thread around here somewhere where I did it and showed my set up, but why bother when that link 013 provided is the treasure trove of maintaining bonsai mom's.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Patient's Bonsai

Umm...i can't find it on yours. Perhaps contact an admin and they could enlighten you as to why the option is not there.

www.420magazine.com

Okay I found it. Just for grins, there's a ton of banter on it. It shows the little set up I had for cloning, bonsai mom's, and getting my clones going under a little HPS.

 

[Weffalo]

Oh my, that is absolutely perfect. I'd need to get some organic nutes as I'm only using liquid at the moment but 12 tiny moms would be literally amazing, I could save 12 phenos? That is honestly the best news ever!!!

I'll read through both of those posts and absorb as much as I can, it does look daunting but I hate to think of growing strains, potentially finding my favourite ever and it being too late to do anything about it. So this is definitely the way to go for me.

Thanks so much guys

 

[Weffalo]

Just wondering how important humidity is in this area?

I imagine because effiency doesn't matter it's not too important as long as your clones get high humidity when they are rooting?

I'm looking at buying a small, cheap propagation tent and then fitting it with a 20w LED, this could fit on the desk in the grow room saving the 2x2 space for w/e else I need. Would provide the perfect space and low power useage with a small LED.

I'm just wondering if I need to bother with humidity control (hard in small area) and also need to figure out how to heat a small area as an oil heater wouldn't fit

 

[Pat Puffer]

I am a little busy today. I can write tonight and talk to you about a full proof method of cloning. As mentioned in my post (but I never posted) I used a method with a popsicle form and vermiculite. It sat in a pyrex dish of water. The popsicle forms had holes drilled in the bottoms and they wicked water from the dish. As long as the temperature maintained 80(ish) degrees the success rate of over 90%.

You say you have an aeroponic cloner? Just maintain 80° at the root zone. It's the magic number. People may question it thinking humidity is key...and it probably is. Unless you maintain that temp. I cloned all year in a back room with no heater or humidifier OR dome. They almost always rooted.

I took pics and posted them somewhere but got upset when they got lost. This was a while ago and I need to do some digging. I got pictures on one of my threads in my signature. But...there is a ton of banter to sift through. This is a good reason to finally find them.

 

[Weffalo]

I am a little busy today. I can write tonight and talk to you about a full proof method of cloning. As mentioned in my post (but I never posted) I used a method with a popsicle form and vermiculite. It sat in a pyrex dish of water. The popsicle forms had holes drilled in the bottoms and they wicked water from the dish. As long as the temperature maintained 80(ish) degrees the success rate of over 90%.

You say you have an aeroponic cloner? Just maintain 80° at the root zone. It's the magic number. People may question it thinking humidity is key...and it probably is. Unless you maintain that temp. I cloned all year in a back room with no heater or humidifier OR dome. They almost always rooted.

I took pics and posted them somewhere but got upset when they got lost. This was a while ago and I need to do some digging. I got pictures on one of my threads in my signature. But...there is a ton of banter to sift through. This is a good reason to finally find them.

Thanks a lot Pat I really appreciate that mate. That would be great, no rush at all I've got plenty of time before getting this rolling, starting to collect the items I'll need.

I don't have an aeroponic cloner yet but I plan to build one using a sprinkler head, a submersible pump and a 5gal. I actually plan to use the cloner in my veg tent and have the prop tent purely for the mothers, I will probably look into a humidity dome so this is possible but right now it's all just plans.

Seedling heating mat sounds exactly what I need to be honest, this is for the prop tent though. I'm thinking if I need to heat the aeroponic cloner I can easily use an aquarium heater which I think would do just fine.

Appreciate the tips & help

 

[Keffka]

I’m not a clone expert but here’s some info. High humidity decreases transpiration since the plant doesn’t have to breathe as hard. One would think this means you could get better root growth since the plant isn’t working as hard, but that’s not how roots work. When there is a sudden loss in water availability a plant will switch gears from growing leaves to growing roots. This is so the plant can reestablish its access to water.

So to me it would seem the best option for successful rooting would be a slightly drier environment with only light access to water (hence the spraying and not submerging of most cloning systems).

One could make the argument that a low RH environment would push the plant to work harder, which would be true, if the plant had roots to transpire with. However with a clone there are no roots, so transpiration is irrelevant. You’re trying to drive root growth so humidity isn’t really a factor.

Perhaps the reason for high humidity is so that once rooting happens the plant isn’t immediately driving at a hundred miles per hour. This would be the only reason I see for high humidity when cloning. Last thing you would want when rooting is to be successful then lose the plant to a sudden burst of nutrients.

If there’s something I’m missing I would be glad to hear it so I can understand the process of cloning better.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Patient's 2020

@StRoostifer There actually is 2 plants in that potter. The Mango is the shorter one in front. There is a self made strain behind the Mango That strain is (Blue Cheese × Mango) × Blue Water Oh damn! You’ve been doing this for a while haven’t ya? ;) Is this the first grow of the self made strain?

www.420magazine.com

Post #85 describes my method

 

[Pat Puffer]

Now if your looking for scientific information or university studies that explain WHY this method works so well; I ain't got it for ya.

In particular I would like to point out the amount of neglect necessary to pull this off makes it seem ridiculous. There is care exercised to make the caps and packing of the vermiculite. That's it...I swear.

Maintain the root temp at 80 and don't let the pyrex run dry. Check in two weeks...

I was (or am) the WORST cloner ever to see this forum. I had a success rate of under 10%. My wife could chew off a cutting and spit on the damn thing and MASH it between two rocks and a cigarette butt...and the damn thing would grow. Me however? Nope! This method was shown to me by SomeOldGuy at another site and it is hand down the most success I have ever had rooting clones.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Patient's Grows

Well...when she was upset because she could only sleep, that was sad. The wife is a spark plug and I struggle to keep up with her. Now that she isn't laid out on the couch feeling like a bag of cement, oh we chuckle about it now. Hahahaha.

www.420magazine.com

Just another link to my method at different stages.

 

[Weffalo]

Thanks @Pat Puffer and thanks @Keffka .

Great info as always, I'll read through your posts and I'll decide on how I'm going to proceed, I may end up PMing you or replying here if I have more questions after reading if that's okay?

Now if your looking for scientific information or university studies that explain WHY this method works so well; I ain't got it for ya.

No worries there, I think of these like "Save slots" for your strains, being able to do that is all I'm concerned about really it's too damn cool to be able to save your phenos and get clones from a mini mum... I'm really excited

I was (or am) the WORST cloner ever to see this forum. I had a success rate of under 10%. My wife could chew off a cutting and spit on the damn thing and MASH it between two rocks and a cigarette butt...and the damn thing would grow. Me however? Nope! This method was shown to me by SomeOldGuy at another site and it is hand down the most success I have ever had rooting clones.

Your wife sounds like Sifo-Dyas... master of the clones (Star Wars reference lol) - I read up on the post you linked intiially, post is from 2000 and the guy is a well known UK grower apparently, super interesting as well!

 

[Pat Puffer]

The link is from @013. He spotted it here. That thread is on a few different forums. If you decide to give my technique a whirl feel free to PM me with any questions.

You wouldn't be the first I coached through it, and probably won't be the last. I have made friends with a couple of the people I have coached through it, and we still keep in touch one way or another.

Just let me know.

 

[Keffka]

It almost sounds to me like this is one of those instances where the more you mess with it the worse/more difficult it is. The dandelions and clover in my yard never get any sort of special treatment nor do I do anything to them yet they spread like wildfire when left alone. Perhaps any sort of system that lets you be really hands off while not coddling the clone is what is driving success.

Similar to how when we grow, some times the best thing to do is to just leave the plant alone and let it work itself out.

Obviously this is anecdotal reasoning but some times that’s just what works best.