Please help

[420painmeds]

these 2 clones are both bubba strains, had them for 3 weeks now..they are growing very fast and hearty but the leaves are growing curled and clubed. there is tons of new growth but its growing deformed. they were planted in miracle grow soil and i added nutes once..any suggestions would be great..pics are below. they are outdoor babies.

 

[fish cake]

nute burn get rid of the mg soil and transplant to a regular potting soil that dosnt have nutes added. also check the forums pest and problems link.my plants started doing that think it was to much potassium.Im sure some one smarter than I could give you better advice. . try and read as much as you can in the faqs

 

[420painmeds]

thank you, i will transplant in normal potting soil first.

 

[QueenTokelove]

Yeah, mg isn't the best thing to grow mj in yet there are people who seem to use it with no problems. But if it was me, I would switch to something else too. You can check the plant abuse chart link in my sig line if you haven't already.

 

[BudTester420]

How big are their pots?

 

[Deege420]

mg = no good. it has slow release nutes in it for up to 6 months. and the nutes are WAY TOO HIGH OF A DOSE FOR MJ especially with w.e nutes your giving it. This looks like an over abundance of nitrogen. get some reg soil and give about 1/2 strength of what your nutes suggest. hope this helps

 

[jandre2k3]

nute burn get rid of the mg soil and transplant to a regular potting soil that dosnt have nutes added. also check the forums pest and problems link.my plants started doing that think it was to much potassium.Im sure some one smarter than I could give you better advice. . try and read as much as you can in the faqs

Yeah, mg isn't the best thing to grow mj in yet there are people who seem to use it with no problems. But if it was me, I would switch to something else too. You can check the plant abuse chart link in my sig line if you haven't already.

mg = no good. it has slow release nutes in it for up to 6 months. and the nutes are WAY TOO HIGH OF A DOSE FOR MJ especially with w.e nutes your giving it. This looks like an over abundance of nitrogen. get some reg soil and give about 1/2 strength of what your nutes suggest. hope this helps

No offense guys, and I mean no disrespect at all, but, you guys are nuts... QTL seems to have the best advice here.... Back before there were specialized nutrients to grow, we used miracle grow and superthrive almost exclusively to grow our plants... Then came fish emulsion, and guano. MG is okay, if you don't try to add anything else to it unless there is a deficiency seen. Water-water-WATCH-water-water. The MG will eventually stop feeding enough and then it is time to give nutes.

Granted, MG is not the best thing to use....NOW... but that doesn't make it bad. Actually the MG for Tomatoes is still pretty good for the penny pinching first timer.

While getting new soil and new nutes would be best, there is no reason that this positively has to be done. My advice would be this: If money is an issue and you cannot get regular soil, and then the nutrients to support the new soil, just flush your plants with 3 times water more than the volume of your pots and let your plants sit in the sun without the tray underneath so the excess can drain out. after that, wait until your finger inserted to the second knuckle comes out dry to water again. Then use only water until you can get the better stuff for your grow. Starting small is not bad, it's how you will learn what your plants like and dislike.

When you are ready, then you can go out and get the absolute best for your plants and really have a go at it. A lot of growers here use Fox Farm Old Forest as their soil but others do not. Just do some research while your plants veg a while to see what is best for you, and then go from there. As for the nutrients, may I suggest that you click on the "BPN ARMY" link in my signature. If you're going organic, or going otherwise, there is a nutrient line for you. Read the journals there for proof of how well it works.

In the mean time, read @420's excellent Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver - Pictorial

Also, you might want to check out the threads in the how-to section. How to Grow Marijuana Get to know the plant, its needs and cycles, learn all you can about what you have undertaken, you will only grow stronger as you grow stronger plants!

 

[420painmeds]

thank you so much for the help. this is only my second grow. Not sure of the first grows strains, but they grew great in these same containers and MG potting soil. Maybe its a little much nutes for these strains but i have heard that Bubba strains are hearty and vigorous growing and very tolerant for the begginer. I started flushing today, its a nice sunny day so its perfect. Thanks for the advice, and yes im on a very limited budget so i will flush first and wait.

 

[QueenTokelove]

Jandre, thanks I think...lol..I try not to knock MG too much, I just share what I know or what I have read. I have often wondered because lately I have been seeing a lot of MG commercials. It seems like they have different types of soil so are all of them bad for mj? I would think one of those types would be something mj could work in, I am sure they know people use their stuff to grow their mj in.

420pain, it is totally understandable that you're on a budget, hell I am too. I wish I had the money to have all the top of the line things but such is life, you work with what you got. A lot of this stuff wasn't even around when people first started growing back in the day so what did they do? Improvised, right? And I agree with Jandre as well.

 

[fish cake]

same here just tring to help with wha t little I know or have tried no expert here

 

[Lady Zandra]

I always say to use what works for you- and what you have available-- BUT time-released MG soil is NOT great because MANY strains are "Light eaters" and it is just too much nitrogen for them..
Not every Cannabis plant has the same needs..
For Example: an Afghan Kush uses HALF the nutrients of a Sharksbreath or G13 x Hash....

AND The nutrients in Miracle-grow soil can not be adjusted or "flushed out"... I LOVE the new MG organic soil-- IF you can get some, I would strongly advise replanting in some of that in a larger planter... use only pH adjusted water & superthrive for at least 4 weeks-- then you can use a higher P-K (like bloom booster or a cannabis-specific bloom nutrient) at about 1/2 the suggested rate ...

The curl means too much nitrogen in SOME plants--- but often, clones have "wonky" growth until well established.

IMO-- replant if possible.... otherwise- wait and see if they outgrow it!

 

[jandre2k3]

Jandre, thanks I think...lol..I try not to knock MG too much, I just share what I know or what I have read. I have often wondered because lately I have been seeing a lot of MG commercials. It seems like they have different types of soil so are all of them bad for mj? I would think one of those types would be something mj could work in, I am sure they know people use their stuff to grow their mj in.

420pain, it is totally understandable that you're on a budget, hell I am too. I wish I had the money to have all the top of the line things but such is life, you work with what you got. A lot of this stuff wasn't even around when people first started growing back in the day so what did they do? Improvised, right? And I agree with Jandre as well.

LOL! you're welcome.

Like I said before, we didn't have Advanced Nutrients, General Hydroponics, CO+, Syco, Blue Planet Nutrients, or anything near that. We grew from what we could get from our local nursery and composted in our back yard... MG for Tomatoes was the best we could get and it performed very well. When transplanting we had SuperThrive to stave off stress. For soil amendments, Blood and Bone meals were, and still are, awesome. Then some bright person found that fish emulsion, worm castings, and bat guano were excellent additions. HOLY COW! Those really did work, and well. pH was tested in 5 vials and litmus papers, or indicator drops- and that was ONLY if we saw a problem with the plants! Our moisture gauge was a finger shoved down in the soil, or a light kick to the pot to "hear" the moisture, or we just reached down and tipped the plant up to see how heavy it was. And we grew great plants. I still see people growing plants like this.

Moral: There is absolutely nothing wrong with low tech. Leave the high tech to those that are running the numbers and maxing yields until you are able and capable of doing the same.

 

[QueenTokelove]

I was sitting here pondering on what Lady Z said about MG having time released nutes, but I also recall that FFOF has the same thing which makes both soils run hot. So my question would be, which would be better if both run hot?

Jandre, I totally agree with you that there is nothing wrong with being low tech especially if you're on a budget. You have to work with what you have but many including myself agrees that if you have better lights or whatever would prolly make for a better grow. Not saying that cfls doesn't make for a better grow but in my opinion just a bit slower. And I am just speaking on the aspect of lights but the same thing can be said about nutes versus not using nutes, ya know what I am trying to say?

Fish, you know your input is always welcome. I cherish your input like I would anyone else's, not always about how much ya know but what ya know.

 

[Lady Zandra]

Fox Farms is "time released" because it is un-processed organics that take time to break down in the soil..
Miracle Grow is time-released gelatin coated beads of CHEMICAL fertilizer.. there are several different batches of these "beads" in it, each batch with a different thickness of gel, so they "pop" at different times thru the grow like "time released" capsules of medication... NOT the same as organics..
Fox Farms and other organic soils that are "slow release" are the same as growing outdoors in good, rich soil that has been amended with well-composted guano or manure, greensand, rock phosphate, worm castings etc... it continues to feed as it breaks down in the soil without being "hot".
The MG is not necessarily "Hot" but the time released nutes (chemicals) are high in "N" on purpose... check the N-P-K!

 

[jandre2k3]

LadyZ hit it right there. MG and FFOF are different in that MG is chemical, and FFOF is organic, and therefore natural. However the concept is still the same as QTL pointed out: Only water young'ns for a while, the soil has stuff to feed them. Then when the plants show they need a bit more, give it to them. Both require that the grower actually pay attention to the plant and watch for queues as to when to do what.

LadyZ, I too have seen people say that FFOF can burn babies for the simple fact that it is so rich. I myself have seen little ones suffer because of it. Contrary to popular belief- and I have seen many people frequently regurgitate this misinformation: it is NOT, that is to say, "capital 'N', capital 'O', capital 'T'", NOT impossible to burn with organics. Granted, it is not as easy as with the inorganic ferts because they're engineered to give the maximum amount of everything possible, and if you mix too strong, you'll pay dearly, but it is very easy to mix a urea shot too hot, or to get a tad too much guano in that organic tea and sizzle some roots.

I also did some checking on your N-P-K statement. Now we all know that slow release/constant feed is much better than a once-a-month feeding schedule so these numbers seem a tad small. But it seems that you were correct in the amount of (N) being much higher in the inorganic as their organic.

Miracle-Gro® Potting Mix Fertilizer Analysis 0.21 - 0.07 - 0.14

Miracle-Gro® Organic Choice® Garden Soil Fertilizer Analysis 0.10 - 0.05 - 0.10

This only goes to further prove my point though... WATER-WATER-WATCH.

I also went to the Fox Farm site to try to get an analysis of their Ocean Forest soil. There is not one available, possibly due to the variable nature of, well nature... However they do state that fertilizer is not recommended.

"Garden tip: Perfect for containers and ready to use right out of the bag. Ocean Forest® is pH adjusted at 6.3 to 6.8 to allow for optimum fertilizer uptake. There’s no need for nitrogen fertilizers at first; instead try an organic blend like FoxFarm Big Bloom™ Liquid Plant Food to encourage strong branching and a sturdy, healthy growth habit."

Instead try THEIR brand of food, "Big Bloom™ Liquid Plant Food (0.01-0.3-0.7)" Note the UNUSUALLY LOW (N) rating there... You think they're trying to say something without actually saying it? "Partially composted anything will release inordinate amounts of (N) as it decomposes, so don't add more, you'll frikkin overdo it and burn!"

I'm done... sorry... It just gets under my skin to hear people say that organics are easier because you can't burn with them or that they cannot be "hot". That is MISINFORMATION and people need to stop VOMITING IT all over newbies.

 

[Lady Zandra]

I agree- I didn't say it couldn't be too rich or too "over ferted" for babies-- I always recommend cutting it with pearlite and a bit of neutral (no nutes) seed starter... otherwise, it can be heavy and "hot" as you say...

The reason I say It isn't "Hot" is because, as a farmer/gardener-- "Hot" to us hayseeds usually means it is not finished composting yet, and is highly acidic AND actually Heats-up in the planter/ground as it continues to decompose.. actually locking up all abailable Nitrogen in the process.

That's why manure and home-made composts are things I am "iffy" about recommending to new growers-- they do get "hot" because they are still in the process of BEING composted... so actually burn the roots...

I guess I take things real literally in reference to all Farming/gardening/growing-- to me "Hot" is un-composted & highly acidic- and MG/Fox Farms are "too rich" or "Over-nuted" ...
Sorry 'bout that!

 

[jandre2k3]

I agree- I didn't say it couldn't be too rich or too "over ferted" for babies-- I always recommend cutting it with pearlite and a bit of neutral (no nutes) seed starter... otherwise, it can be heavy and "hot" as you say...

The reason I say It isn't "Hot" is because, as a farmer/gardener-- "Hot" to us hayseeds usually means it is not finished composting yet, and is highly acidic AND actually Heats-up in the planter/ground as it continues to decompose.. actually locking up all abailable Nitrogen in the process.

That's why manure and home-made composts are things I am "iffy" about recommending to new growers-- they do get "hot" because they are still in the process of BEING composted... so actually burn the roots...

I guess I take things real literally in reference to all Farming/gardening/growing-- to me "Hot" is un-composted & highly acidic- and MG/Fox Farms are "too rich" or "Over-nuted" ...
Sorry 'bout that!

Yeah, let me apologize, I didn't mean to spew all over you like that. I just see so many people say you can't burn your plants with organics, and that it's impossible, and that is so near a lie it eats me up inside. Misinformation is something I battle against every day, and unfortunately you were the proverbial "straw" that shattered my ability to control my tongue. I really am not usually like that, and I most humbly apologize.

 

[QueenTokelove]

I also was not slamming anything you said Lady Z, I assure you, you being a gardener, you know much more than I do. I was simply going by what had been told to me by others here. I am not claiming anyone's word as scripture but I do take it into consideration. When I first made the attempt to start growing my first purchase for soil was going to be MG because that was the only thing I had ever heard of. But then that's when someone told me about it running hot, so then I buy the FFOF, after buying it, I found out it was also hot after adding nutes to it. No moral to the story but my question remains if both run hot, how is one better than the other? It almost makes me want to experiment myself because there are people here who actually has had successful grows using MG...Honestly, I say to each their own, whatever works best for the individual and their budget.

 

[jandre2k3]

And by hot, she means over fertilized.

 

[jandre2k3]

I also was not slamming anything you said Lady Z, I assure you, you being a gardener, you know much more than I do. I was simply going by what had been told to me by others here. I am not claiming anyone's word as scripture but I do take it into consideration. When I first made the attempt to start growing my first purchase for soil was going to be MG because that was the only thing I had ever heard of. But then that's when someone told me about it running hot, so then I buy the FFOF, after buying it, I found out it was also hot after adding nutes to it. No moral to the story but my question remains if both run hot, how is one better than the other? It almost makes me want to experiment myself because there are people here who actually has had successful grows using MG...Honestly, I say to each their own, whatever works best for the individual and their budget.

As long as you let the soil do what it was designed to do, you will have no problems with either one. Just keep a sharp eye out for the day that the plant yells at you that the soil is lacking and adjust it according to the signs your plant gives. With any new soil, I still say, "water-water-watch" they'll tell you what they need.

The only reason that some soil growers say it is "bad" is that it is fertilized with inorganic nutes, and they are organic enthusiasts.